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Are we witnessing the death of the Republican Party?

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DaveW

Space Monkey
Jul 2, 2001
11,635
3,138
The bunker at parliament
Ok that's it, I'm writing a letter to my local MP and the Minister of Immigration.

It will request that we immediately institute compulsory IQ AND common sense tests on all USA citizens wishing to enter New Zealand, plus a blanket ban on all permanent (non tourist) immigration from the USA.

:feminist::ban:
 

AngryMetalsmith

Business is good, thanks for asking
Jun 4, 2006
22,111
12,857
I have no idea where I am
Ok that's it, I'm writing a letter to my local MP and the Minister of Immigration.

It will request that we immediately institute compulsory IQ AND common sense tests on all USA citizens wishing to enter New Zealand, plus a blanket ban on all permanent (non tourist) immigration from the USA.

:feminist::ban:
That won't keep neurosurgeons out.
 

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
41,910
19,236
Riding the baggage carousel.
Ok that's it, I'm writing a letter to my local MP and the Minister of Immigration.

It will request that we immediately institute compulsory IQ AND common sense tests on all USA citizens wishing to enter New Zealand, plus a blanket ban on all permanent (non tourist) immigration from the USA.

:feminist::ban:
Build a wall and send us the bill.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
56,061
22,090
Sleazattle
If you plot the intellectual path of the Republican party, by 2024 you could expect them to be extinct. They are likely to forget how to breath, or will build a vacuum chamber around themselves to keep out muslim/mexican/scientists breath.
 

jstuhlman

bagpipe wanker
Dec 3, 2009
17,364
14,202
Cackalacka du Nord
i have to say, i'm really looking forward to all of the poo slinging and shit hitting the fan over the coming weeks and months. chit's about to get real.
 

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
41,910
19,236
Riding the baggage carousel.
Had three rather revelatory conversations over my weekend with a couple of solid, regular republican voter types. Ranging from moderate to, "my most treasured piece of military memorabilia from my service career is a picture of myself with George W. Bush aboard ship" type of republican, and all to a person said something along the lines of "I'm done with the GOP". The one moderate guy doesn't surprise me all that much, but coming from the other two, :shocked:. We might really be witnessing something extraordinary.
 

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
11,592
2,028
Seattle
Ok that's it, I'm writing a letter to my local MP and the Minister of Immigration.

It will request that we immediately institute compulsory IQ AND common sense tests on all USA citizens wishing to enter New Zealand, plus a blanket ban on all permanent (non tourist) immigration from the USA.

:feminist::ban:
Xenophobic immigration policy for everyone!
 

stoney

Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde
Jul 26, 2006
22,005
7,895
Colorado
Dave, dont loose hope theres still half of us that arent total fucking morons.
Right. And 33% of the bernie supporters won't vote for Hillary. That means that only 17% of the whole aren't morons willing to vote for Hillary. Leaving a whopping 33% of the total population to vote against Trump...
 

Beef Supreme

Turbo Monkey
Oct 29, 2010
1,434
73
Hiding from the stupid
Right. And 33% of the bernie supporters won't vote for Hillary. That means that only 17% of the whole aren't morons willing to vote for Hillary. Leaving a whopping 33% of the total population to vote against Trump...
The Bernie statistic amazes me. You would think the Nader fiasco would knock some sense into the Dems for at least a generation. We are still living with the direct consequences of that in terms of debt, the balance on the supreme court, and our obligations to veterans. This doesn't even factor in secondary consequences such as Citizens United. I can't decide if these folks are too young or just dumb. At any rate, it drives me crazy to no end every time I hear the argument that there is no difference between the two parties.
 

blackohio

Generous jaywalker
Mar 12, 2009
2,773
122
Hellafornia. Formerly stumptown.
Well to be fair, living in a swing state or not changes things drastically. If I lived in a swing state I would 100% vote for Dem nominee. If I didnt (which I don't) I would vote as I wanted with little fear of harming the dem. nominee in anyway.
 

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
41,910
19,236
Riding the baggage carousel.
The Bernie statistic amazes me. You would think the Nader fiasco would knock some sense into the Dems for at least a generation. We are still living with the direct consequences of that in terms of debt, the balance on the supreme court, and our obligations to veterans. This doesn't even factor in secondary consequences such as Citizens United. I can't decide if these folks are too young or just dumb. At any rate, it drives me crazy to no end every time I hear the argument that there is no difference between the two parties.
:wave:
If I may take a moment to address this. (I actually meant to do this the other day, but got sidetracked and forgot.) To be clear, I only speak for myself and would not pretend to speak for anyone else. In 2012 I forwent the vote I felt like I ought to have given to Jill Stein, a candidate that was much more aligned with my political leanings, ideals and beliefs, holding to the notion that I'd much rather see a second Obama term than any Rmoney term. What I traded my political ideology for looked very much like a third Reagan term, near as I can tell. Let's not forget, that in Obama's second term we learned all about gross violations of civil liberties, more middle east conflicts (that article doesn't even address Libya), continued killings of Americans without due process, continued deportations, and these are just the first couple things I can think of off the top of my head. The American Prospect did a pretty good job of summarizing my feelings in a some what dated, much longer piece here. Now, to be fair, these aren't necessarily just all "Obama issues". I recognize, that as adults, sometimes compromise is necessary, and that an incredibly obstructionist congress hasn't helped, but that's not the point. The point is, I don't even think that the democrats are trying, never mind Obama. I've posted in here before, and I can't find the video any more, but I still believe this to be true:
But, there is another side to the story. And that is that every time Obama tries to take on a progressive cause, there's a major political party standing in his way: the Democrats. Now, people talk a lot about a third political party in America. We don't need a third party. We need a first party. You go to the polls and your choices are the guy who voted for the first Wall Street bailout, or the guy who voted for the next ten.

This year, we're hearing that a public option for health care is unlikely because it doesn't have the support of enough Democrats. Even Ted Kennedy's plan-- Ted Kennedy, yeah -- leaves 37 million uninsured. This is because we don't have a left and a right part in this country anymore. We have a center-right party and a crazy party.

And, over the last 30-odd years, Democrats have moved to the right, and the right has moved into a mental hospital.

So, what we have is one perfectly good party for hedge fund managers, credit card companies, banks, defense contractors, big agriculture and the pharmaceutical lobby; that's the Democrats.

And they sit across the aisle from a small group of religious lunatics, flat-earth-ers and Civil War re-enactors who mostly communicate by AM radio and call themselves the Republicans. And who actually worry that Obama is a socialist.

Socialist? He's not even a liberal. I know he's not because he's on TV. And while I see Democrats on television, I don't see actual liberals. And if occasionally you do get to hear Ralph Nader or Noam Chomsky or Dennis Kucinich, they're treated like buffoons. Okay, these are not three of the world's most charismatic men, but then nobody is going to confuse Newt Gingrich for Zac Efron. And I have to look at his fat face on TV more often than that free credit report song.

Shouldn't there be one party that unambiguously supports cutting the military budget, a party that is straight up in favor of gun control, gay marriage, higher taxes on the rich, universal health care--legalizing pot--and steep, direct taxing of polluters? These aren't radical ideas. A majority of Americans are either already for them or would be if they were properly argued and defended.

And what we need is an actual progressive party to represent the millions of Americans who aren't being served by the Democrats. Because, bottom line, Democrats are the new Republicans.
I guess that's a long way of saying why I won't vote for Hillary. Because she's Mitt Romney in a pant suit. She's never been afraid to support a political cause the second it's favorability rating hits 50%+1. Her Goldwater days show way too easily, if this was 1982 she'd be a vaguely left leaning Reagan Republican. I can no longer support the idea of "Party first", and when I was at county caucus the party people repeated it over and over, that one is somehow supposed to tow the party line no mater what, and it shouldn't even matter if the party doesn't actually represent you. Fuck that. I went Green in 2013 because I was disgusted by how the democrats keep chasing the mouth breathers GOP to the right, and only switched back (D) to caucus for Bernie because CO is a closed caucus state. I'm adult enough to recognize the slim chances a third party candidate has, I recognize the "nader effect" as a genuine and real thing. I also recognize that I am a grown ass man, with principals and ideals, and that the Democratic party no longer represents them, I will not compromise them again. I will not again be badgered, bullied, or coerced into this false choice of less bad > more bad. It's not about making the perfect the enemy of the good, it's about both of them being shit. I am still a strong believer in the democratic process. There are still choices to be had, and people who believe in the form of government that I believe in, and I will vote for it. I will not sit idly by, but I will be damned if I vote for Hillary.
 
Last edited:

stevew

resident influencer
Sep 21, 2001
41,179
10,114
just think if the dnc had done the smart thing and told bernie he could not run as a democrat....we would have two threads on parties that need to die.
 

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
41,910
19,236
Riding the baggage carousel.
just think if the dnc had done the smart thing and told bernie he could not run as a democrat....we would have two threads on parties that need to die.
I do believe that somewhere in here I posted my regrets that Bernie had decided to run as a Dem.

Edit:
I will donate to a Sanders campaign. Though I will be a bit disappointed if he runs as a Dem.
Because I'd like to see him remain "independent". A third part is something that IMHO is sorely lacking, and near as I can tell, today's Democratic party = 1982 Republican party. Unless bernie can take the whole Democratic party and swing it back to the left, I see no reason for him to run as one.
 

Beef Supreme

Turbo Monkey
Oct 29, 2010
1,434
73
Hiding from the stupid
:wave:
If I may take a moment to address this. (I actually meant to do this the other day, but got sidetracked and forgot.) To be clear, I only speak for myself and would not pretend to speak for anyone else. In 2012 I forwent the vote I felt like I ought to have given to Jill Stein, a candidate that was much more aligned with my political leanings, ideals and beliefs, holding to the notion that I'd much rather see a second Obama term than any Rmoney term. What I traded my political ideology for looked very much like a third Reagan term, near as I can tell. Let's not forget, that in Obama's second term we learned all about gross violations of civil liberties, more middle east conflicts (that article doesn't even address Libya), continued killings of Americans without due process, continued deportations, and these are just the first couple things I can think of off the top of my head. The American Prospect did a pretty good job of summarizing my feelings in a some what dated, much longer piece here. Now, to be fair, these aren't necessarily just all "Obama issues". I recognize, that as adults, sometimes compromise is necessary, and that an incredibly obstructionist congress hasn't helped, but that's not the point. The point is, I don't even think that the democrats are trying, never mind Obama. I've posted in here before, and I can't find the video any more, but I still believe this to be true:


I guess that's a long way of saying why I won't vote for Hillary. Because she's Mitt Romney in a pant suit. She's never been afraid to support a political cause the second it's favorability rating hits 50%+1. Her Goldwater days show way too easily, if this was 1982 she'd be a vaguely left leaning Reagan Republican. I can no longer support the idea of "Party first", and when I was at county caucus the party people repeated it over and over, that one is somehow supposed to tow the party line no mater what, and it shouldn't even matter if the party doesn't actually represent you. Fuck that. I went Green in 2013 because I was disgusted by how the democrats keep chasing the mouth breathers GOP to the right, and only switched back (D) to caucus for Bernie because CO is a closed caucus state. I'm adult enough to recognize the slim chances a third party candidate has, I recognize the "nader effect" as a genuine and real thing. I also recognize that I am a grown ass man, with principals and ideals, and that the Democratic party no longer represents them, I will not compromise them again. I will not again be badgered, bullied, or coerced into this false choice of less bad > more bad. It's not about making the perfect the enemy of the good, it's about both of them being shit. I am still a strong believer in the democratic process. There are still choices to be had, and people who believe in the form of government that I believe in, and I will vote for it. I will not sit idly by, but I will be damned if I vote for Hillary.
I think I would get this is the current Republican party wasn't a radicalized fringe party. Reagan is basically a liberal compared to the current crop. Let's just say I am going to say I told you so when we are both warboys for Immortan Donald.
 

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
41,910
19,236
Riding the baggage carousel.
I think I would get this is the current Republican party wasn't a radicalized fringe party. Reagan is basically a liberal compared to the current crop. Let's just say I am going to say I told you so when we are both warboys for Immortan Donald.
Well, I'm of the opinion that the Democrats only facilitated this my moving right, right along with them. As far as Immortan Donald goes, I will humbly beg your forgiveness should we ever come to that day, assuming I don't get droned by Vice President Bristol Palin first.
 

stevew

resident influencer
Sep 21, 2001
41,179
10,114
:wave:
I also recognize that I am a grown ass man, with principals and ideals, and that the Democratic party no longer represents them, I will not compromise them again.
i don't think that twat wasserman schultz understands that a good bit of democratic voters might sit this one out......or believe it or not....voting for trump.

edit: neither my brother or his wife will vote for hillary...
 
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jstuhlman

bagpipe wanker
Dec 3, 2009
17,364
14,202
Cackalacka du Nord
i'm on the side of those who call bullshit on the supporters of either who wouldn't vote for the other if nominated. that's some pathetic, lazy, sullen loser-type shit. until there's a viable third party alternative (which this country is a long, long way from), why would you not support the one of the two nominees who most closely aligns with your ideals? is the possibilty of the other party winning truly a better alternative?
 

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
41,910
19,236
Riding the baggage carousel.
until there's a viable third party alternative (which this country is a long, long way from), why would you not support the one of the two nominees who most closely aligns with your ideals? is the possibilty of the other party winning truly a better alternative?
How does a viable third party happen? Will it one day magically receive the blessings of the FSM, or does it start when a third party receives a certain amount of votes, from disenfranchised voters who don't want to vote for either of the two nominees? What if that third party is what mostly aligns with your ideals?