Quantcast

Are you embarrassed...

Discussion in 'Downhill & Freeride' started by profro, Feb 17, 2018.

  1. profro

    profro Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    6 / 268
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2002
    Messages:
    5,605
    Location:
    Walden Ridge
    that while downhill skiing and slalom require the skill to steer on off camber, the mountain biking equivalent is becoming more bermy?

    Makes you wonder how lame skiing would be if the just littered the hill with berms or how more awesome mountain biking would be with less berms.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1

    Please register to disable this ad.

  2. Gary

    Gary "S" is for "neo-luddite"

    Rep/Likes:
    47 / 714
    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    2,691
    Location:
    UK
     
    • Winner Winner x 3
    • Like Like x 2
    • Funny Funny x 1
  3. troy

    troy Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    36 / 405
    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2008
    Messages:
    827
    Go back to pinkbike Mr R. Cunningham.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  4. profro

    profro Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    6 / 268
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2002
    Messages:
    5,605
    Location:
    Walden Ridge
    Don't know who that is, or what the reference is. I was just thinking while I watched the olympic alpine skiing I noticed there weren't any berms and was thrilled to watch them go 60mph across a really steep side hill and how lame it would be if they had berms and bench cuts to aid. Why have berms become synonymous with modern mountain biking?
     
  5. Gallain

    Gallain Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    17 / 43
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2001
    Messages:
    182
    Location:
    Sweden
    And skier/border cross... And bobsleigh... And luge.. and motocross to some extent...

    Why would we want beginners to be able to use the mountain and go fast and have really fun?
    No, I say! Let's make wet grass off camber corners mandated in wc dh!
     
    • Horns Horns x 1
  6. profro

    profro Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    6 / 268
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2002
    Messages:
    5,605
    Location:
    Walden Ridge
    So, in your view alpine slalom, super G and downhill are lame because they don't have berms like bobsled, border cross, luge and even motocross? You prefer to see beginners getting rad in berms on a downhill ski course?

    I'm serious, sell me why mtb is better with berms or why you think alpine skiing is lame without.
     
    #6 -   Feb 17, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2018
  7. jonKranked

    jonKranked Press Button, Receive Stupid

    Rep/Likes:
    391 / 3,918
    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    55,357
    Location:
    media blackout
    viveleskinsuit.jpg
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  8. troy

    troy Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    36 / 405
    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2008
    Messages:
    827
    Thought, You were referring to this:
    https://www.pinkbike.com/news/opinion-does-downhill-have-nowhere-else-to-go.html
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. jstuhlman

    jstuhlman We noticed.

    Rep/Likes:
    346 / 3,708
    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2009
    Messages:
    8,930
    Location:
    Cackalacka du Nord
    you know what’s super fruitful? comparing apples to oranges.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  10. profro

    profro Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    6 / 268
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2002
    Messages:
    5,605
    Location:
    Walden Ridge
    Words...

    I don't know about all that, haven't thought that deep.

    I just excited to watch the super G I think it was. No practice (or maybe 1 inspection run ) but watching the best in the world struggle to make gates on blind off camber was really exciting. I imagine it would be awesome to ride as well. Unlike watching an entire field take a berm in pretty much the exact same manner.
     
  11. jonKranked

    jonKranked Press Button, Receive Stupid

    Rep/Likes:
    391 / 3,918
    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    55,357
    Location:
    media blackout
    Let's not forget here...

    The FIS cares about downhill skiing events. The uci does not care about downhill mountain biking events.
     
    • Winner Winner x 4
    • Like Like x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  12. toodles

    toodles Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    30 / 678
    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2004
    Messages:
    2,516
    Location:
    Australia
    Aren't skis like 100 times easier to turn on off-camber though? A berm is the opposite of what you want when you're relying on an edge to get bite for turning.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Useful Useful x 1
  13. SkaredShtles

    SkaredShtles I love NEWCASTLE and will ONLY drink NEWCASTLE!!!!

    Rep/Likes:
    257 / 2,131
    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2003
    Messages:
    47,478
    Location:
    In a van.... down by the river
    Yup. Having razors attached directly to your feet makes a real carve fairly easy.

    There really is no equivalency to rubber tires on dirt.
     
    #13 -   Feb 17, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2018
  14. jstuhlman

    jstuhlman We noticed.

    Rep/Likes:
    346 / 3,708
    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2009
    Messages:
    8,930
    Location:
    Cackalacka du Nord
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  15. StiHacka

    StiHacka Compensating for something

    Rep/Likes:
    330 / 3,652
    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2013
    Messages:
    11,153
    Location:
    i͓̽t͓̽ i͓̽s͓̽ fu͓̽l͓̽l͓̽ o͓̽f s͓̽t͓̽a͓̽r͓̽s͓̽
    I find the weight management (loading / unloading) very similar in fast tight spaced corners though.
     
  16. marshalolson

    marshalolson Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    3 / 69
    Joined:
    May 25, 2006
    Messages:
    1,456
    I want to ride bikes like how ted ligety races GS
     
  17. Westy

    Westy the teste

    Rep/Likes:
    446 / 2,879
    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2002
    Messages:
    36,248
    Location:
    Sleazattle
    I am embarrassed that the country with the most per capita guns in the world couldn't even field a competitor in the women's 12.5k shooting biathlon.

    Next thing you know we will lose our #1 ranking in the competitive eating major leagues.
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Horns Horns x 1
  18. SylentK

    SylentK Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    14 / 180
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2004
    Messages:
    1,216
    Location:
    coloRADo
    I get what you're saying.

    But what about that one format in the ski downhill where they don't get any practice runs, just inspection. That's nuts! Truly one run and done!
     
  19. Kanye West

    Kanye West 220# bag of hacktastic

    Rep/Likes:
    17 / 164
    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    3,452
    Skis are most stable and have the most traction when they are on edge and the side cut is fully engaged.

    Mountain bikes have the most grip when going straight and on the center knobs.
     
  20. Westy

    Westy the teste

    Rep/Likes:
    446 / 2,879
    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2002
    Messages:
    36,248
    Location:
    Sleazattle

    Well then, just put the center knobs on the side.
     
    • Funny Funny x 4
    • Winner Winner x 3
    • Useful Useful x 3
    • Like Like x 1
  21. Muddy

    Muddy Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    96 / 259
    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2013
    Messages:
    1,124
    Location:
    VerdMont
    bugs bunny  florida.gif

    Fixed that for you.
     
    • Horns Horns x 1
  22. mykel

    mykel Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    91 / 496
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2013
    Messages:
    1,865
    Location:
    sw ontario canada
    I just don't get the berm-hate.
    They are like anything else, if overused they get some stick.
    It is not the berms fault, but the idiot(s) who used one where not needed or improperly used.

    Face, it we have probably all ridden a trail that has berms that make you go huh - why the F is that there? As well as trails that desperately need a berm at a certain location, such as to catch your sorry ass before a sudden ending of the ground requiring a mandatory ER visit if you totally ball things up.

    Bermy jumpy flowy trails are fun.
    Natural trails are fun.
    A combination of the two if done correctly utilizing the terrain can be biggly fun.

    If you are on a long downhill pointed dirt trail whilst riding a foot-cycle - you are already winning yuge.

    From my experience with regards to riders and ability. Newbies tend to like the bermy stuff as it is not as intimidating as raw, it lets them develop some balance / body position, braking, airtime etc etc. Eventually they start to look at the natural stuff and go from there. Experienced riders tend to tech out then mellow out for a few laps on the bermy stuff, then back to the tech etc etc.

    Now, old farts like me who grew up on nothing but tech - well as you get older and your balls shrink, you tend to slow down; you don't bounce anymore, and if you do come off the bike, recovery takes a lot longer, so the mix type and the full on bermy stuff gets more use.
    I for example since the TBI concussions can no longer ride a double black at anything more than a check-it out / slow cruise pace, I just can not visually process terrain at speed especially if it is nasty. Blacks I'm good if a bit slow, Blues I still rock :D. So my favorite trail type is now a mix of tech and flow, which I think is the hardest to get right build wise.

    And yes, all WC DH courses should have at least one decently fast nasty off camber grassy, greasy whooped out cluster-fuck of a corner.:monkey:
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Useful Useful x 1
  23. Flo33

    Flo33 Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    27 / 322
    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    1,023
    Location:
    Styria
    You would be fairly surprised if you would try to turn in high speed on a FIS Worldcup event off camber turn as a mere mortal skier. What looks like snow is bare ice. Even with the steel edges on skis that's a not so easy task.


    That's the format in Super G. Only one inspection run in walking speed. In downhill there are one to three full speed training runs. Speed in downhill is much higher though.


    I think it's the mixture that makes for an interesting event. My favorite track was the original Maribor track, where all was present. High speed berms (watch Nico in NWD2), off camber, rock gardens and lots of roots. The end.
     
  24. Gallain

    Gallain Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    17 / 43
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2001
    Messages:
    182
    Location:
    Sweden
    Have you ever been on a properly prepared dh skiing slope? You can't ride it. You have to be so trained and have such good technique that it's unbelievable. Thats why so few can do it. I think it's embarrassing that 95% of the people on a black diamond ski slope don't belong there but they think they can go down it in style.
    Berms let you go faster around a corner, that's it.
     
  25. sethimus

    sethimus scroll all you want!

    Rep/Likes:
    15 / 188
    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2006
    Messages:
    2,192
    Location:
    not in Whistler anymore :/
    there is the perfect product for you in this article:

    https://www.pinkbike.com/news/north-american-handmade-bicycle-show-2018.html
     
  26. mrgto

    mrgto Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    7 / 117
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2009
    Messages:
    295
    I think off camber terrain should be a skill new riders need to learn instead of making every trail a participation award. I’ve raced motorcycles and cars and there are plenty of off camber and neutral turns in both sports. Hell just riding my motorcycle on the street you see off camber/neutral turns everywhere. I understand the whole make some trails easier for new riders, but I think the powers to be in the sport are getting a little too carried away with the idea. I know in my area techical trails are in the minority now with all the new trails being machine built flow trails.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  27. SinatorJ

    SinatorJ Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    4 / 9
    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2002
    Messages:
    518
    Location:
    AZ
    Mountain biking is all about the participation award. If it cannot be ridden cleanly the 1st time, it must be rebuilt. Something clearly amiss.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  28. johnbryanpeters

    Rep/Likes:
    247 / 2,767
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2001
    Messages:
    25,097
    Location:
    Making moss sad in New Haven, Vermont
    quit.whining.and.ride.
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
  29. Carraig042

    Carraig042 me 1st

    Rep/Likes:
    4 / 75
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2011
    Messages:
    470
    Location:
    East Tennessee
    There are many snowflakes out there that want to be able to ride 'cool' trails, but dont want the higher risk of falling or situations that cause them to have to walk sections as they learn...

    -Brett
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  30. canadmos

    canadmos Cake Tease

    Rep/Likes:
    248 / 4,751
    Joined:
    May 29, 2011
    Messages:
    9,234
    Location:
    Canaderp
    I don't understand this, but then again off camber trails still exist and are still being included in new trails around here.

    Only the popular riding spots avoid off camber stuff, as generally off camber sections of trail will get chewed up and widened a little too much.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  31. wiscodh

    wiscodh Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    8 / 64
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2007
    Messages:
    775
    Location:
    303
    nah, its really fucking fun to race berms of snow....

    Legendary-Baker-Banked-Slalom-video-Feb16-fi.jpg

    mt baker Legendary Banked Slalom
     
    #31 -   Feb 18, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2018
    • Winner Winner x 3
    • Like Like x 1
  32. Gallain

    Gallain Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    17 / 43
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2001
    Messages:
    182
    Location:
    Sweden
    Yes, I'm thinking a bit from the perspective that I want the places with lift access to stay open. If all the trails are to difficult people won't go there and spend money so they can build awesome dh tracks for me.
     
  33. profro

    profro Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    6 / 268
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2002
    Messages:
    5,605
    Location:
    Walden Ridge
    I don't know that I would classify that as bermed in the modern sense. That is just a clever use of the terrain. But perhaps I can't really see it well enough.
     
  34. FarkinRyan

    FarkinRyan Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    2 / 66
    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2003
    Messages:
    518
    Location:
    Squamish, BC
    As long as the trail is steep enough it's also super fun to snowboard down bermed flow trails, like a one-up boardercross track. Berms in the snow on a snowboard are rad in general. @wiscodh knows what's up.
     
  35. Westy

    Westy the teste

    Rep/Likes:
    446 / 2,879
    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2002
    Messages:
    36,248
    Location:
    Sleazattle
    If off camber turns are better, does that mean the uphill parts of downhills are the best part?
     
    • Horns Horns x 1
  36. iRider

    iRider Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    23 / 233
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2008
    Messages:
    1,873
    Both will separate the men from the boys. :D
     
    • Like Like x 1
  37. Metamorphic

    Metamorphic Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    11 / 175
    Joined:
    May 12, 2015
    Messages:
    274
    Location:
    Cackalack
     
    • Like Like x 1
  38. Electric_City

    Electric_City The orangutans are loose!

    Rep/Likes:
    17 / 274
    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2007
    Messages:
    1,383
    I couldn't agree more. Imagine how awesome A-line would be without berms. You'd have to come around some of those turns on your brakes and then pedal as fast as possible in the perfect gear for 20' to try to clear the next 10 tables. I personally couldn't agree more. It sounds fun.
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Horns Horns x 2
  39. fwp

    fwp Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    1 / 88
    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2013
    Messages:
    129
    I love the old school techy rocky runs, but I'm old and from the east coast. People out west in alot of areas don't have access to the same kind of East coast/ New england tech. terrain I can see why people love the bermy jump trails as they are alot of fun too. As long as a mountain has a good mix of both, I'm all for it. The more people getting into the gravity side of the sport the better imo, if it takes smoothed out manicured trails so be it. A bike park should have every king of riding.
    A world cup DH track should be un rideable for 99% of the population, Unfortunately the women have to safely run the same course, and the amount of riders with the potential to win goes from around 10 to less than 5 on the hardest tracks in the world. I think if every track was like a schladming/ champery/ val di sole level, the sport would be better in determining who is the most skilled rider. The downside would be knowing who was most likely going to win every race, Then again thats pretty much where were at now when rachel is healthy and Gwin doesn't have a mechanical or crash.
    I say make downhill WC tracks great again!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  40. William42

    William42 fork ways

    Rep/Likes:
    17 / 284
    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2007
    Messages:
    3,671
    Crazy how two different racing sports that have totally different riding mechanics might have strengths and weaknesses in different areas.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1