[The Toninator]

Anyone think maybe there is some merit in not selling toy guns that look exactly like the real thing?

This isn't the first time this kind of thing has happened.

I had toy guns as a child. played cowboy and indian just like every other kid with my dad's blessing. As i got older in noticed him not liking gun games, toy or otherwise. now he outright despises them even though he was an army dude etc.
He's, as is mine, philosophy is "Guns kill that's their job.” I’m starting to feel that there should be no such thing as a ‘toy’ gun. Just like there should be no such thing as a ‘candy’ cigarette.

 

[Changleen]

Then you're into censorship of video games... I think the decision should be left with the parent. However my child won't be having toy guns.

 

[kizzi77]

My kid will be having real guns. And killing things with them and eating them. Unless he's a little queer or something.

 

[MikeD]

And I'm just as dead if someone kills me with a spoon, rather than a gun. That doesn't mean I would treat someone wildly waving a spoon the same way I would treat someone wildly waving a gun. There are different levels of threat.

I first feel compelled to quote Bart Simpson: "That's not a knife! That's a spoon!"

Now, I realize what you're saying, but we're mixing metaphors a bit here. We're not debating whether a knife itself presents a lethal threat in relation to other weapons, but whether a given person (the juvenille to whom you referred) has the apparent means to employ lethal force. This is established by many things in concert.

If an angry 6-year-old had a knife, I *likely* wouldn't be worried for my own life, but I suppose it's possible, depending on a lot of other things. An angry male teenager with a knife? I can imagine lots of very dangerous situations there. Again, just because he's smaller or untrained doesn't mean anger, aggression, intoxication, my hesitation to use force, or just dumb luck won't get him where he can slide that knife between my ribs. So I'm not letting him get near me. He made the choice to start this...the cops didn't go hunting him down randomly...and it's his choice when to end it. Too bad he's young, but when you decide to play like a big boy, you get the big-boy treatment.

Personally, if I was a police officer in such a situation, and I was alone, I'd probably go right to my gun. If there were several responders, I'd prefer a less-lethal method like taser or OC if it was available...but that would be my decision. Constitutional law lets an officer go straight to lethal force here, although local departmental policy may be more restrictive.

Manimal answered my question about the level of threat a knife poses. That was all that needed to be said. It wasn't an accusation.

Guess I didn't need to post all that, then.

Interestingly, lots of training now is trying to unlearn the "21' rule," which is pretty ingrained in law enforcement/military/security thinking. Threats can come at greater or lesser distances, and it's up to an officer to articulate hard facts that led him to his decisions once he's made them.

 

[Silver]

Then you're into censorship of video games... I think the decision should be left with the parent. However my child won't be having toy guns.

No, I'm not. Waving a videogame around at school never got anyone shot. I'm just wondering why parents wouldn't lean on toy manufacturers (and hell, the NRA should be leaning on toy manufactuers as well, it would be good PR for them) over this. After all, guns aren't toys, right?

 

[ohio]

No, I'm not. Waving a videogame around at school never got anyone shot. I'm just wondering why parents wouldn't lean on toy manufacturers (and hell, the NRA should be leaning on toy manufactuers as well, it would be good PR for them) over this. After all, guns aren't toys, right?

Growing up, I wasn't allowed to have squirt guns that were even shaped like real guns (you know, the clear red plastic ones) or GI Joes.... So I'd go over to my friend's house and shoot his real guns at his GI Joes instead.

I've also had to make the argument that a super-soaker isn't a "gun" it's a "portable hose."

 

[BurlyShirley]

Growing up, I wasn't allowed to have squirt guns that were even shaped like real guns (you know, the clear red plastic ones) or GI Joes

No wonder you grew up to like guys.

 

[kidwoo]

No wonder you grew up to like guys.

No you don't understand.

He SHOT at the symbols of latent homos who like to play dress up and pop each other on the ass with towels.

You joined them.

 

[BurlyShirley]

No you don't understand.

He SHOT at the symbols of latent homos who like to play dress up and pop each other on the ass with towels.

You joined them.

Shot at them with peace signs, maybe.
Ohio can argue for himself Kid. You dont get teabagged any extra for jumping to his defense.

 

[MikeD]

No you don't understand.

He SHOT at the symbols of latent homos who like to play dress up and pop each other on the ass with towels.

You joined them.

ooooh, buuuurn.

Hey, waitaminit...

 

[ride26]

This poor kid had more problems than just access to a handgun.......which IMO is the parents responsibility (access to the handgun that is).

in all fairness it migh not be the parents...big brother,stolen from a friends parents house,found it ...ect. ect ect or just bad parents

 

[kidwoo]

Shot at them with peace signs, maybe.
Ohio can argue for himself Kid. You dont get teabagged any extra for jumping to his defense.

I'm not defending ohio, I'm making fun of you.

What's teabagging? Learn that in the locker room?

 

[BurlyShirley]

I'm not defending ohio, I'm making fun of you.

What's teabagging? Learn that in the locker room?

Think back to when you and "uncle steve" used to play "the tickle game" back behind the furnace in the basement. And remember, dont tell mom. Its your little secret.

 

[kidwoo]

Think back to when you and "uncle steve" used to play "the tickle game" back behind the furnace in the basement. And remember, dont tell mom. Its your little secret.

Your uncle taught you that?

My uncle was an aunt named Julie and we used to listen to a lot of Jerry Lee Lewis for some reason.

 

[ohio]

No wonder you grew up to like guys.

Bro, there were all kinds of reasons I tapped your Mom like an Oktoberfest keg, and none of them were that she happens to look like a man.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Bro, there were all kinds of reasons I tapped your Mom like an Oktoberfest keg, and none of them were that she happens to look like a man.

I hit it too. Big deal.

 

[ohio]

I hit it too. Big deal.

Uh, I know dude. I was there. Remember the high-five over her back?

 

[Transcend]

Hey sweet, another elementary school student was shot today by a fellow student. Continue with the handgun greatness!

 

[The Amish]

It would've never happened if they could still play dodge ball. Damn the lawyers!

 

[beestiboy]

...
The point was, that if the culture were different; if it wasn't expected that a schoolkid could easily get his hands on a gun, then maybe the police would have hesitated a bit more - would have tried something else...and we wouldn't have another dead kid.

They maybe did hesitate we may never know.

Anyone think maybe there is some merit in not selling toy guns that look exactly like the real thing?

This isn't the first time this kind of thing has happened.

20 years ago they were complaining about this, I remember only being allowed to have clear water guns in the summer. I grew up in a pretty bad area of Inglewood so mom was always worried about this kinda crap.


Sorry, I dont mean to sound like a d!ck but maybe this is a little Darwin in action. It seems obvious to me that this kid was tweaked mentally and his gene pool (parents) either were too lazy or too self absorbed to recognize or care. So off to school he went with the only way he could figure out to deal with his issue and it is no longer an issue. I feel sorry for his classmates and teachers who now have to explain this away and undoubtedly the officer who fired on him will have this weighing on him for quite sometime.

Lets hope that at the very least this will trigger some sperm donors/recepticles to start acting like parents and pay attention to their kids a little more closely.

 

[Changleen]

It won't. 'That could never happen to my child.'

 

[1000-Oaks]

It must be a miracle, I've owned handguns and rifles since I was ten years old and have somehow managed to NOT shoot anyone! Or bring any to school! Perhaps "education is the answer" after all.

Of course, all of the firearms in my family combined haven't killed as many people as Ted Kennedy's car...

 

[narlus]

Of course, all of the firearms in my family combined haven't killed as many people as Ted Kennedy's car...

that joke was pretty funny the first 353 times i heard it.

now, it's kinda stale.

let's hear some new material, maestro.

 

[1000-Oaks]

Guess which country was the first to have full firearm registration, and bragged that all other countries would "soon follow their lead" to safer streets and a peaceful existence?
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Adolph Hitler, as Nazi Germany began to take shape.

 

[1000-Oaks]

And no need to thank me for owning firearms, which really are the only thing protecting your right to voice any opinion you like. It's rather ironic. Laws and lofty ideas written on paper (such as our Constitution) mean nothing without the people having the means to back it up.

But we law-abiding firearm owners are willing to put up with the BS and legal harassment for the good of society. Nobody wants guns in the hands of irresponsible kids (or adults) and bad people will always find ways to do bad things. But compared to the number of people killed in car accidents every day, the number of firearm incidents relative to the number of firearms in the US is so miniscule it's almost unbelievable. Just goes to show how tremendously responsible the vast majority of gun owners are, despite how the news tries to spin the issue.

 

[Transcend]

Guess which country was the first to have full firearm registration, and bragged that all other countries would "soon follow their lead" to safer streets and a peaceful existence?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Adolph Hitler, as Nazi Germany began to take shape.

I'm pretty sure the US has some other things it should be worrying about right now that are related to Hitler.

You know...like locking up people based solely on their religion or ethnic background, tapping it's citizen's phones and computers etc.

 

[1000-Oaks]

Yeah I can't argue with that, I'm a libertarian at heart...wish we could do away with most government.

 

[Changleen]

And no need to thank me for owning firearms, which really are the only thing protecting your right to voice any opinion you like. It's rather ironic. Laws and lofty ideas written on paper (such as our Constitution) mean nothing without the people having the means to back it up.

Good job you're doing such a great job of stopping Bush pissing all over the constitution right now with all your guns eh? Well done, congratulations on all your good work.

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

Good job you're doing such a great job of stopping Bush pissing all over the constitution right now with all your guns eh? Well done, congratulations on all your good work.

its because the sissy interpretation of "arms" given by the gutless liberals to impair the well organized militias!.

if cruise missiles, portable sams and heavy tanks were included in the definition of "arms" in the 2nd amendment, instead of cutting it down ti semi auto rifles, none of this would have been happening!!!!

 

[MikeD]

its because the sissy interpretation of "arms" given by the gutless liberals to impair the well organized militias!.

if cruise missiles, portable sams and heavy tanks were included in the definition of "arms" in the 2nd amendment, instead of cutting it down ti semi auto rifles, none of this would have been happening!!!!

Interesting point. Been itching to start a thread about this lately. In fact, I think I shall.

MD

 

[ohio]

But we law-abiding firearm owners are willing to put up with the BS and legal harassment for the good of society.

Play victim much?

 

[1000-Oaks]

Play victim much?

Now THAT is funny, coming from the other side. lol...

 

[1000-Oaks]

its because the sissy interpretation of "arms" given by the gutless liberals to impair the well organized militias!.

if cruise missiles, portable sams and heavy tanks were included in the definition of "arms" in the 2nd amendment, instead of cutting it down ti semi auto rifles, none of this would have been happening!!!!

Damn straight, I'd have a few light machine guns and shoulder-fired rocket arms if only I could. The only way to really keep the people free is if they're armed the same as the government. Then both sides have to behave and work together.

 

[ohio]

Now THAT is funny, coming from the other side. lol...

Who said I'm the other side?

I just can't stand whining.

Though I admit, I'm actually in agreement with Chang on this point:
"Good job you're doing such a great job of stopping Bush pissing all over the constitution right now with all your guns eh?"

 

[Transcend]

"Bear arms" in the constitution meant to allow the citizens to rise up against the government. So in what is probably the US govt's darkest hour in awhile, no one is doing anything.

As Ohio said, good use of all those guns. Hell rise up now, Bush sent all the soldiers overseas to oppress another country. Apparently one wasn't enough.

 

[1000-Oaks]

Look at what happened in CA, they've outlawed .50 BMG caliber rifles.

Note that none of these rifles has NEVER been used to commit a crime in the US. Not even once, ever. And they start at about $7,000 and go up from there, rounds are about $4 each. Purely toys for long-range marksmen who can afford to shoot them, and something for zealous patriots to bury in the backyard in preparation for "when the stuff hits the fan."

But the politicians wanted to get some points with the anti-gun crowd and outlawed them, when they really should have outlawed somethat that actually kills people - like bubble gum. The other possible reason they outlawed the .50? It's a common round used by the US military, and our "trusted" government doesn't want it's citizens to have a round as poweful as what the military uses.

CA also still has the ridiculous assult weapon ban. Remember the news the weeks before Clinton's national ban expired? The anti-gunners were raving that there would be mass bloodshed in the streets, and innocent people would be gunned down everywhere. Well, needless to say there was no additional bloodshed after the ban expired, and life went on as usual. You'd think CA would note the facts and cancel it's ban, but nooooooooo...

 

[sanjuro]

Look at what happened in CA, they've outlawed .50 BMG caliber rifles.

Note that one of these rifles has NEVER been used to commit a crime in the US. Not even once, ever. And they start at about $7,000 and go up from there, rounds are about $4 each. Purely toys for long-range marksmen who can afford to shoot them, and something for zealous patriots to bury in the backyard in preparation for "when the stuff hits the fan."

But the politicians wanted to get some points with the anti-gun crowd and outlawed them, when they really should have outlawed somethat that actually kills people - like bubble gum. The other possible reason they outlawed the .50? It's a common round used by the US military, and our "trusted" government doesn't want it's citizens to have a round as poweful as what the military uses.

CA also still has the ridiculous assult weapon ban. Remember the news the weeks before Clinton's national ban expired? The anti-gunners were raving that there would be mass bloodshed in the streets, and innocent people would be gunned down everywhere. Well, needless to say there was no additional bloodshed after the ban expired, and life went on as usual. You'd think CA would note the facts and cancel it's ban, but nooooooooo...

I agree about the 50 caliber. There are not too many drive-by shootings and plane crashes involving a $10,000 rifle.

But the assault ban seems to work. While there are still plenty of killings, I cannot remember the last one in Calif involving an automatic weapon...

 

[N8 v2.0]

I agree about the 50 caliber. There are not too many drive-by shootings and plane crashes involving a $10,000 rifle.

But the assault ban seems to work. While there are still plenty of killings, I cannot remember the last one in Calif involving an automatic weapon...

Oh really?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout

 

[ohio]

Note that one of these rifles has NEVER been used to commit a crime in the US.

Only one? That's a pretty crappy record.

 

[1000-Oaks]

NONE, not "one". Didn't hit the N key hard enough...