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Arnold's Hydrogen Hummer

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
:p:p:p :think:


Vehicle of the Week
Arnold's Hydrogen Hummer
Forbes.com | 4.Jan | Dan Lienert | LINK

In what the company has called a "bold experiment," Hummer has prepared a hydrogen-powered version of its H2 SUT (sport utility truck), the H2H. The vehicle is not intended for production, and a Hummer spokesperson said yesterday in a phone interview that the company will not divulge the prototype's development cost.

Hummer's parent, General Motors, owns the H2H and shares it with the office of the governor of California, Arnold Schwarzenegger. In a recent statement, Schwarzenegger said that the purpose of the prototype is to "demonstrate the economic and technical viability of hydrogen." He had said during his gubernatorial campaign that he was interested in alternative fuels and one day would go so far as to own a hydrogen-powered Hummer.

California is making a pioneering effort with its Hydrogen Highway Network, an initiative that combines the efforts of industry and government to develop the state's infrastructure, research and market for hydrogen cars. Hummer, a maker of the some of the most fuel-inefficient and wasteful automobiles in the world, presumably wanted a part in this venture because Schwarzenegger already likes the brand's cars, and because the company is trying to change its image.

The H2H puts lipstick on the pig by turning a vehicle whose urban fuel economy is about 10 miles per gallon (filling the tank routinely costs over $50) into a futuristic, alternatively-fueled car whose main tailpipe emission is water vapor. Hummer has engineered the H2H to use a supercharged version of the regular truck's 6.0-liter V-8 engine.

According to Hummer, the H2H was created by a team of GM engineers from the U.S., Canada and Germany, in collaboration with Quantum Technologies (nasdaq: QTWW - news - people ), a California-based supplier of hydrogen fuel systems. The car is a one-of-a-kind deal, although the partners might build one or two more H2Hs.

The H2H uses a conventional internal combustion engine powered by compressed hydrogen, even though GM's plans for its future model range involve hydrogen cars powered by energy sources called "fuel-cell stacks." Supposing for the sake of argument that Schwarzenegger wanted to drive the H2H around California ("I don't think that's a common occurrence," said the Hummer spokesperson), he could refuel the car at several stations.

The majority of California's 12 to 15 hydrogen refueling stations are in the southern part of the state, although Schwarzenegger could--for example--refuel the H2H at the University of California, Davis' station if he didn't stray too far from Sacramento. Hydrogen currently costs $4 to $10 per kilogram, the unit in which it is measured, and the H2H's fuel tank holds five to six kg of hydrogen. GM believes that if hydrogen is to be commercially viable it must cost $2 to $2.25 per kg--that is, it must be competitive with gasoline prices.

GM does not allow Schwarzenegger to use the "Self-Serve" lane at the hydrogen station. The company fills the tank itself, keeps the vehicle in Lake Forest, Calif. (near its engineering facilities and Quantum's offices) and requires that a GM engineer ride in the car at all times.

Forbes Fact
Is Hummer's tentative embrace of green technology sparked by conscience or sales? Noting that Hummer's North American sales in the first 11 months of 2004 declined 19% compared to the same period in 2003, the refashioning of Hummer starts to make sense--even if selling Hummers on their fuel economy still sounds like a desperate move. This spring, Hummer will introduce the H3 sport utility vehicle, the company's smallest and most fuel-efficient car yet.
 

reflux

Turbo Monkey
Mar 18, 2002
4,617
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G14 Classified
N8truck said:
a Hummer spokesperson said yesterday in a phone interview that the company will not divulge the prototype's development cost.

"demonstrate the economic and technical viability of hydrogen."
huh??
 

Ridemonkey

This is not an active account
Sep 18, 2002
4,108
1
Toronto, Canada
Look up what it takes to create pure hydrogen to use as fuel. Hydrogen is BS that the republicans like to embrace because they can look like they are doing something when they really aren't doing **** and the oil companies profits won't be jeopardized.
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
Ridemonkey said:
Look up what it takes to create pure hydrogen to use as fuel.

Oh I donno... I've been using H2 fuel cells (from 25 kw - 200 kw) since 1997 and they keep getting better and smaller and more and more reliable.
 

mack

Turbo Monkey
Feb 26, 2003
3,674
0
Colorado
Ridemonkey said:
Look up what it takes to create pure hydrogen to use as fuel. Hydrogen is BS that the republicans like to embrace because they can look like they are doing something when they really aren't doing **** and the oil companies profits won't be jeopardized.

hhmmm republicans? Seems to be mostly granola eating liberals who support not so efficient "alternative fuels". I think Arnold is in this for publicity, but hes doing it to please enviroment nuts, so dont say that, especially when the left coast loves "elf".

My dad used to work for a company that made the platinum coating on fuel cells "jet prosses". fuell cells are ahead of their time. until we can find a way to compress hydrogen w/o burning fossil fuels it wont work. scientist are looking into alternatives like hydrogen-fixing bacteria.

other than that, its like trying to invent the v8 w/o the invention of gas.


EDIT: platinum costs a load to buy and coat. ;) so why buy that when you can burn that dead t-rex under saudi arabia. Also, storing hydrogen in a expensive bleed tank under extreme pressure is like carrying a bomb in your trunk, and you thought the pinto was a danger :nope: And they dont work well in certain climates, like new york.
 

Ridemonkey

This is not an active account
Sep 18, 2002
4,108
1
Toronto, Canada
N8 said:
Oh I donno... I've been using H2 fuel cells (from 25 kw - 200 kw) since 1997 and they keep getting better and smaller and more and more reliable.
So those cells ar moving your car around just fine eh?
 

chicodude

The Spooninator
Mar 28, 2004
1,054
2
Paradise
mack said:
EDIT: platinum costs a load to buy and coat. ;) so why buy that when you can burn that dead t-rex under saudi arabia. Also, storing hydrogen in a expensive bleed tank under extreme pressure is like carrying a bomb in your trunk, and you thought the pinto was a danger :nope: And they dont work well in certain climates, like new york.


Sooner or later, the T-rex's are gonna be all gone........
 

MMike

A fowl peckerwood.
Sep 5, 2001
18,207
105
just sittin' here drinkin' scotch
Hydrogen isn't there yet, but I had a prof at school that was way into it. He was convinced that it's doable. And will be done. It's just a matter of time. And he was really reallyreallyreallyreallyreallyreallyreallyreallyreallyreallyreallyreallyreallyreally smart. So I believe him. He's dead now.

Good ol' Dr. Krepec....
 

fluff

Monkey Turbo
Sep 8, 2001
5,673
2
Feeling the lag
MMike said:
Hydrogen isn't there yet, but I had a prof at school that was way into it. He was convinced that it's doable. And will be done. It's just a matter of time. And he was really reallyreallyreallyreallyreallyreallyreallyreallyreallyreallyreallyreallyreallyreally smart. So I believe him. He's dead now.

Good ol' Dr. Krepec....
Huh, and they say being smart helps to keep you alive. Didn't help ol' Dr. Krepec. What chance do we stand?
 

Skookum

bikey's is cool
Jul 26, 2002
10,184
0
in a bear cave
Silver said:
Geez, the last thing I need is some silicone blond driving one of these so she can be an "environmentalist" too...
Yah or trying to commit suicide by locking herself in the garage and leaving the H2H running.
 

ioscope

Turbo Monkey
Jul 3, 2004
2,002
0
Vashon, WA
Cars are bad for the environment, no matter what hydrocarbon you cut the cheese with. So suck it up, and ride your bike!!
 
I dont care what anyone says. if there is a chance to reduce dependancy on fossil fuels then I'm all for it. It would mean no more dependancy on OPEC and not having to dig up the planet to find more oil. Liquid Hydrogen is viable and a realistic goal to have. And if worse comes to better we can all ride bikes.
 

FlipSide

Turbo Monkey
Sep 24, 2001
1,460
930
It's a good thing the way to make liquid Hydrogen is environment friendly too! :think:

Isn't something like 80% of the electricity in the US coming from burning coal? I can't quite remember the exact number, so don't flame me... Burning coal to produce the electricity used to produce Hydrogen doesn't seem all that great to me.

I prefer the bio-diesel route and the hybrid concept "recycling the braking energy into power".
 

mack

Turbo Monkey
Feb 26, 2003
3,674
0
Colorado
genpowell71 said:
No why should I? What are you going to tell me that I havent already heard a thousand times before?
if you knew what i was telling you then you would shut up.

I want you to grap your ears.

Got them?

Now pull your head out of your ass...

You think liquid hydrogen comes from lakes?

There is always the argument that its better to burn coal at the power plant and get the bad stuff out of it at the generator and then to convert electricity into liquid hydrogen. This makes sence because the smoke coming from the plant would be clean. But the liquid hydrogen is dangerouse to transport, needs a bleed off valve tank. And fuel cells need expensive platinum coatings and they dont work well in certain climates. And there are no hydrogen gas stations.

edit: Too bad the US doesnt have geo thermal heat. I heard that inorder to power the whole US on solar electricity wed have to cover the sate of Nevada with pannels. Im all for that! Who needs Nevada. :sneaky:
 

splat

Nam I am
mack said:
other than that, its like trying to invent the v8 w/o the invention of gas.

there is a lot of truth in this statement .

there are 2 schools of thought here:

first is wind /solar/geo-thermal , etc new electrical power sources and usingthe excess electriciy because those sources some times will produce more electricty then is is needed. so how do you store the excess energy ? basic electrolosysis to make Hydrogen and Oxygen.

second : is Fusion , It is still 30 - 50 years away and the basic principle is simple take Helium and turn it into hydrogen and cature the energy when the the helium bond breaks. and you will have hydrogen ( actually ditherium ) and electricy. but it is a ways away. ( I worked at MIT in the Plasma Fusion LAb , where they had a Tandem Mirror fusion generator ( TARA ) and were building a Togamack. ) and this is what all of the brainiacs were saying .
 

mack

Turbo Monkey
Feb 26, 2003
3,674
0
Colorado
Oh man if i had one wish, it would be to have a fusion reactor. The worlds problems would be solved. Unlimited energy and fueled by anything. I still think that hydrocarbons are the best means to transport and use energy. And you can grown them, although that too takes energy.
 
mack said:
if you knew what i was telling you then you would shut up.

I want you to grap your ears.

Got them?

Now pull your head out of your ass...

You think liquid hydrogen comes from lakes?

There is always the argument that its better to burn coal at the power plant and get the bad stuff out of it at the generator and then to convert electricity into liquid hydrogen. This makes sence because the smoke coming from the plant would be clean. But the liquid hydrogen is dangerouse to transport, needs a bleed off valve tank. And fuel cells need expensive platinum coatings and they dont work well in certain climates. And there are no hydrogen gas stations.

edit: Too bad the US doesnt have geo thermal heat. I heard that inorder to power the whole US on solar electricity wed have to cover the sate of Nevada with pannels. Im all for that! Who needs Nevada. :sneaky:
Ok, I "grapped" my ears.

One thing I never claimed to know anything about was liquid hydrogen, what is involved in using it, and how to make it work. My point, JACKARSE was that if it reduced our dependancy on fossil fuels then I'm all for it. I dont know the first thing about using hydrogen as a fuel source. Nor do I wish to learn. But the one thing that I try to tell peopl is that there are OTHER fuels sources. Obviously you know something about it, and good for you. But if you want to tell me to pull my head out of my arse because I'm throwin out an opinion, I think you need to take a bit of your own advice. You sound just like changleen.