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dante

Unabomber
Feb 13, 2004
8,814
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looking for classic NE singletrack
Being Black While Sitting In Your Own House

Can't believe this hasn't been posted yet. He tries to get into his own house. His neighbor calls the cops. Cops show up, demand identification. He provides it. He's "loud". Cops entice him out onto his porch, where he's arrested for disorderly conduct (which can only happen in a public place according to MA law). There's also the question as to whether he asked the cop for his badge number, and the cop refused (his testimony, not the cops).

Discuss.
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,846
0
Orange County, CA
We already have been in the other recent cop thread.

He forgot he was black and got put into place by the cop, that's all. Mr. Gates got what Paul Mooney has referred to as a "nigger wake up call."

But, since we have a (half)black president, there's no such thing as racism anymore, and if there is, it's all reverse racism against whites!

edit: Malcolm X asked a pertinent question 40 years ago: What do you call a black man with a PhD?

The more things change, the more they stay the same...
 
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Inclag

Turbo Monkey
Sep 9, 2001
2,351
73
MA
Yep, being discussed in another thread, but I'm not buying this guy's story...

I'm sure there was some provoking by the cop, but don't tell me that a Harvard professor wasn't provoking the cop as well...all in all, this professor probably got what he deserved for being a d!ck.
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,846
0
Orange County, CA
Yep, being discussed in another thread, but I'm not buying this guy's story...

I'm sure there was some provoking by the cop, but don't tell me that a Harvard professor wasn't provoking the cop as well...all in all, this professor probably got what he deserved for being a d!ck.
What section of the penal code in MA prevents you from being a dick to a police officer in your own home?
 

valve bouncer

Master Dildoist
Feb 11, 2002
7,791
36
Japan
What section of the penal code in MA prevents you from being a dick to a police officer in your own home?
Exactly.
If after telling him that it was my house, the cop insisted on continuing to hassle me he would be invited to dine on the corn in my pooh.
For a certain type of officer (perhaps 75%) the first reponse to any incident is "ESCALATE".
 

J-Dubs

Monkey
Jul 10, 2006
702
0
Salem, MA
That cop is a d-bag, but more importantly, the lady who called is a huge d-bag.
I hope the good prof gets the apology he's after.
 

Inclag

Turbo Monkey
Sep 9, 2001
2,351
73
MA
Exactly.
If after telling him that it was my house, the cop insisted on continuing to hassle me he would be invited to dine on the corn in my pooh.
For a certain type of officer (perhaps 75%) the first reponse to any incident is "ESCALATE".
Geeze guys, a little knee jerk reaction here eh? I know this story has taken off throughout the country, but unfortunately I think you are missing out on alot of info that has been neglected for the sake of selling newspapers.

You guys do realize that Gate's refused to step outside of his house? You do realize that there was a second person (his livery driver) that was trying to enter through the rear of the house, that he told the officer that he'll come outside when "his momma does", that he was yelling at the cop (according to witnesses and even through photo) for his badge number as the cop was going to leave, that this cop has attended 3 racial profiling/sensitivity seminars for training? As far as I can tell this, guy was being a pompous ass who could have easily averted all of this had he just stepped outside and answered the cops questions and explained what was going on.

Could the cop had handled this differently? Maybe, but understand that he has to look out for himself, and if he is going to a scene where there may possibly be a break-in, I would expect him to be thorough in trying to figure out what is going on. Obviously Gates took exception to this and so far has been the only person to drag out the "race card" He was behaving in manner that required the officer to tell Gates that he had "Three strikes" because he was being disorderly. Gates pushed the officer's buttons to that point where he reached "three strikes", and the officer got put in a bad situation where he needed to do something. Unfortunately for the officer, that decision may be really hurt his career.

This is one of the instances where I'm going to tend to lean in favor of the officer.
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,846
0
Orange County, CA
You guys do realize that Gate's refused to step outside of his house?
Dear God, no! A man who had done nothing wrong and had shown the officer his ID refused to step out of his own house?

My reply would have been much like the professor's was, except it would have been profane and obscene, and there wouldn't have been the crack about being a black man, because that just wouldn't make sense.

Who gives a **** who is coming in through the back door when the OWNER OF THE GODDAMNED HOME HAS SHOWN YOU ID AND SAYS THAT EVERYTHING IS FINE?
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,638
4
SF, CA
Actually, I'd pin the blame on the neighbors more than the cops. Cops have no choice but to respond to a call. Once on the scene, there are maybe only a few nuances that could have been different.

The neighbors are the ones that panicked about a darkie trying to get into the house next door.

Of course, that is again just huge speculation based on my experience with Bostonians, who typify the "we love the poor and underprivileged... as long as they don't come near me or my children" attitude.
 

stevew

unique white person
Sep 21, 2001
32,267
3,089
Of course, that is again just huge speculation based on my experience with Bostonians, who typify the "we love the poor and underprivileged... as long as they don't come near me or my children" attitude.
Ever been to Boulder.

"we love the poor and underprivileged... as long as they play college football or basketball, wait our tables, mow our lawns, and stay away from our white cheerleaders."
 

Inclag

Turbo Monkey
Sep 9, 2001
2,351
73
MA
Dear God, no! A man who had done nothing wrong and had shown the officer his ID refused to step out of his own house?

My reply would have been much like the professor's was, except it would have been profane and obscene, and there wouldn't have been the crack about being a black man, because that just wouldn't make sense.

Who gives a **** who is coming in through the back door when the OWNER OF THE GODDAMNED HOME HAS SHOWN YOU ID AND SAYS THAT EVERYTHING IS FINE?
Way to overlook everything else I pointed out....

This whole fiasco is downright laughable. http://www.thebostonchannel.com/education/20143900/detail.html#



I suppose he's yawning because he can't yell eh? And you do know that Sgt. Crowley's partner is black too?

Silver, you seem like a bright enough guy, but really, there's an overwhelming amount of evidence that Gates decided to try to get in a pissing match with the cop. That = FAIL. You don't really believe that Gate's was compliant with the officer? I'd like to see how far you'd get being an ass to a cop.
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,846
0
Orange County, CA
Way to overlook everything else I pointed out....

This whole fiasco is downright laughable. http://www.thebostonchannel.com/education/20143900/detail.html#



I suppose he's yawning because he can't yell eh? And you do know that Sgt. Crowley's partner is black too?

Silver, you seem like a bright enough guy, but really, there's an overwhelming amount of evidence that Gates decided to try to get in a pissing match with the cop. That = FAIL. You don't really believe that Gate's was compliant with the officer? I'd like to see how far you'd get being an ass to a cop.
Being an ass to a cop is NOT illegal.

As much as police officers think there should be (or think there are) there are no lèse majesté laws that protect their dignity.

You're basically defending a police officer for acting like Eric Cartman.
 

Inclag

Turbo Monkey
Sep 9, 2001
2,351
73
MA
Being an ass to a cop is NOT illegal.

As much as police officers think there should be (or think there are) there are no lèse majesté laws that protect their dignity.

You're basically defending a police officer for acting like Eric Cartman.
Au contraire.

Pretty sure all states have laws that say otherwise....

For example http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/LXII/642/642-1.htm

642:1 Obstructing Government Administration. –
I. A person is guilty of a misdemeanor if that person uses intimidation, actual or threatened force or violence, simulated legal process, or engages in any other unlawful conduct with a purpose to hinder or interfere with a public servant, as defined in RSA 640:2, II, performing or purporting to perform an official function or to retaliate for the performance or purported performance of such a function.
II. Flight by a person charged with an offense, refusal by anyone to submit to arrest, or any such interference in connection with a labor dispute with the government shall be prosecuted under the statutes governing such matters and not under this section.
III. In this section, ""simulated legal process'' means a document or order which purports to have been issued by a court or filed or recorded for the purpose of exercising jurisdiction or representing a claim against a person or property, or for the purpose of directing a person to appear before a court or tribunal, or to perform or refrain from performing a specified act, but which the actor knows was not lawfully issued or rendered in accordance with the applicable statutes, rules, regulations, or ordinances of the federal, state, or local government, or a political subdivision thereof. ""Simulated legal process'' includes any document that purports to be a summons, lien, indictment, complaint, warrant, injunction, writ, notice, pleading, subpoena, or order.
IV. For any offense committed under paragraph I that involved the use of simulated legal process, the court may impose the following remedies, in addition to any criminal penalties authorized under RSA 651:
(a) Such appropriate injunctive relief as the court may deem necessary to prevent continued violations of this section.
(b) Restitution to the public official for any out-of-pocket expenses incurred as a result of the simulated legal process, including legal fees.

Source. 1971, 518:1. 2003, 168:1, eff. Jan. 1, 2004.
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,411
0
SF
Being an ass to a cop is NOT illegal.

As much as police officers think there should be (or think there are) there are no lèse majesté laws that protect their dignity.

You're basically defending a police officer for acting like Eric Cartman.
Being an ass may not be. Disobeying an officer's instructions may not either, but I bet you go to jail more often than not.
 

dante

Unabomber
Feb 13, 2004
8,814
8
looking for classic NE singletrack
Silver, you seem like a bright enough guy, but really, there's an overwhelming amount of evidence that Gates decided to try to get in a pissing match with the cop. That = FAIL. You don't really believe that Gate's was compliant with the officer? I'd like to see how far you'd get being an ass to a cop.
My guess between 5 and 20 million?
 

JohnE

filthy rascist
May 13, 2005
12,645
664
Front Range, dude...
He said/she said...
I am sure the truth lays somewhere inbetween the 2 stories. Had the cop exercised some verbal judo on "Skip" (What kind of name is that for a grown man anyway?) he could have prevented the escalation. Had Skip simply done as he was asked, we would have never heard anything of this.

Where is the Chris Rock bit about doing what the Cops say?
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,846
0
Orange County, CA
He said/she said...
I am sure the truth lays somewhere inbetween the 2 stories. Had the cop exercised some verbal judo on "Skip" (What kind of name is that for a grown man anyway?) he could have prevented the escalation. Had Skip simply done as he was asked, we would have never heard anything of this.
It's a boy's name, ain't it?
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
16,361
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This guy is making an issue out of what would have otherwise been nothing. At least he's getting his 5 minutes, I'm sure he's very very excited about that. Charges were dropped, everybody should go home. The officer is keeping his mouth shut (EDIT: OOPS, nevermind....here we go)
 
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dante

Unabomber
Feb 13, 2004
8,814
8
looking for classic NE singletrack
This guy is making an issue out of what would have otherwise been nothing. At least he's getting his 5 minutes, I'm sure he's very very excited about that. Charges were dropped, everybody should go home. The officer is keeping his mouth shut (EDIT: OOPS, nevermind....here we go)
That's funny, I'd think that getting dragged off of my front porch in handcuffs for doing nothing other than standing up for my constitutional rights wouldn't exactly be characterized as "nothing".
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
16,361
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doing nothing
This is where we don't see eye to eye. He wasn't sitting in his house by any accord, for one thing. I'm not sure I agree with the arrest, but I'm sure I don't agree with Gates' actions leading up to them. Now he's making his rounds through the talk show circuit, before anything has even been finalized. Seems a bit contrived and capitalistic, don't you think? I guess he wants to make his money before he's revealed as being hysterical and aggressive or the whole thing quiets down.
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,846
0
Orange County, CA
That's funny, I'd think that getting dragged off of my front porch in handcuffs for doing nothing other than standing up for my constitutional rights wouldn't exactly be characterized as "nothing".
What are you, some pinko commie fag? This is America, buddy. Love it or leave it!
 

Inclag

Turbo Monkey
Sep 9, 2001
2,351
73
MA
Let's get this straight. Cop didn't do or say anything racist by both accounts.

Gates on the other hand yelled, called out the cop's mother, and accused him of being racist. We're talking about one of the most preeminent scholars on African Americanism in the world here. He probably thinks about racism more than most people in the world on a daily bases. It's his job! You guys are a bunch self righteous d-bags if you believe that the cop should have just walked away. Gates was pushing his buttons and the cop was in a tough situation. Should he have arrested him? I don't know, but I think we can all agree it would be a tough scenario to have to deal with.

http://audio.weei.com/m/25432556/stg-james-crowley-cambridge-police.htm

BTW, don't mind the 2 asshole sports talk hosts. Pretty sure 90% of people in Boston hate them for obvious reasons.
 

kidwoo

Celebrating No-Pants Day
Aug 25, 2003
22,549
2,222
In my pants
Yeah you're right.


Poor cop :(

It must be so hard to continue to just do your job correctly with a bunch of meanie poo things being said to you.
 

X3pilot

Texans fan - LOL
Aug 13, 2007
5,861
1
SoMD
The Professor is on the talk circuit and thinking of doing a documentary, the cop is on the internet news stating his side, the President is chiming in on it but doesn't know all the details but can pass judgment. Has anyone talked to the good neighbor that didn't know his/her neighbors well enough to know who would and wouldn't be breaking in? I'm not friends with most of my neighbors but I know them by sight and would know if they were trying to get in their house.

On the other side of that, I personally would be grateful if one of my neighbors called the cops if they thought someone was breaking into my house, even if it was me. Too many people today ignore what's going on around them and don't get involved.

Here, let me save most of you the trouble: "Oh, that's sweet coming from a non-minority guy, who'd expect a cop to harass you?" Cut and paste quote for you guys.
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,846
0
Orange County, CA
I don't know, but I think we can all agree it would be a tough scenario to have to deal with.
That's your idea of a tough scenario?

Seriously?

Really?

How about, "Thank you for showing me your id, sir. I'm sorry you're aggravated. Have a good day."

Yeah, really ****ing tough scenario there. Don't you have a little legal scholarship to do for me still?
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
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How about, "Thank you for showing me your id, sir. I'm sorry you're aggravated. Have a good day."
"Yeah, yo mama would be aggravated too if I came at her"

"Sir I apologize for the inconvenience but I was responding to a call of a possible break-in."

"Why, cause I'm black and trying to get in my own house? You know what it means to be...blah.blah.blah..tirade...angry yelling...etc."

"Sir, please calm down, I meant you no disrespect."

etc. etc. and on and on until the arrest.
____________________________


See, I can play the fanciful "what if" game too. Fact is, neither YOU nor I know what went down in that house, and we likely won't get the facts ever, unless somebody recorded it or comes forward as an eye witness. I hope this dissipates as fast as it started, because neither party was necessarily right, and the charges have been dropped.
 

dante

Unabomber
Feb 13, 2004
8,814
8
looking for classic NE singletrack
doing nothing
This is where we don't see eye to eye. He wasn't sitting in his house by any accord, for one thing. I'm not sure I agree with the arrest, but I'm sure I don't agree with Gates' actions leading up to them. Now he's making his rounds through the talk show circuit, before anything has even been finalized. Seems a bit contrived and capitalistic, don't you think? I guess he wants to make his money before he's revealed as being hysterical and aggressive or the whole thing quiets down.
Sorry, doing nothing ILLEGAL.


Every state has laws against foul language, but the courts, including the U.S. Supreme Court, have generally agreed that the words have to be used in a violent or sexually obscene context, said John Burkoff, associate dean and law professor at the University of Pittsburgh. Uttering something vulgar or profane is not, in itself, grounds for arrest, he said.
The conviction of a Canyon County man for disturbing the peace by using a four-letter word during an exchange with police was overturned yesterday by the Idaho Supreme Court.
The unanimous court said the statement Patrick Sheldon Suiter made in frustration in early 1998 was not likely to provoke violence and therefore was protected under the First Amendment's free-speech guarantee.
http://www.theamericandissident.org/Thoreau-freespeech.htm

Sorry, what part about Gates' actions were "violent or sexually obscene"? After reading the police report, the cops side of the story is that he tried giving Gates his name, and then left while Gates continued ranting and raving at him as he walked away. While it's understandable that the situation deteriorated at this point and *both* of them let their ego's get in the way, I haven't seen anything in the statute for Disorderly Conduct that would apply to someone insulting a cop (and in the link above, various police agencies have paid out quite a bit of money to settle lawsuits brought on by people suing over unlawful arrests for just that).
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
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wikipedia said:
A person who recklessly, knowingly, or intentionally:

(1) engages in fighting or in tumultuous conduct;
(2) makes unreasonable noise and continues to do so after being asked to stop; or
(3) disrupts a lawful assembly of persons;

commits disorderly conduct. . .
Apologies for using wikipedia. Disorderly conduct can be a variety of things and can be a catch all, but according to the Iowa statute listed above, would Gates not have theoretically fit under (b)? It is unfortunate in this case that it is a catch all, and like I said before, I'm not sure I agree with the arrest and charges, per se, but I disagree with his actions leading up to it and causing it to happen. I'm happy they were dismissed, as it's a better option than inviting the SharptonCircus into town, but the fact that this is still going on is upsetting.
 

dante

Unabomber
Feb 13, 2004
8,814
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looking for classic NE singletrack
"Yeah, yo mama would be aggravated too if I came at her"
??

The actual arrest sheet here says the quote was:

"Ya, I'll speak with your mama outside."

Gates, according to the arrest record said that Crowley was a racist police officer, that he had a "racial bias" and that this "wasn't the last that Crowley would hear of him". The quotes from Crowley's partner noted:

"No I will not"
"This is what happens to black men in America"

None of those things denotes violence or sexual conduct, which are not protected by the 1st amendment. He wasn't showing proper respect to a police officer, but last I heard that wasn't something you could get arrested for...
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
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Dude that was a made up conversation, just like every other one going on in people's heads on both sides of the fence.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
37,066
3,937
Sleazattle
All I can think of is when I was a kid working for $3.15 an hour at a crappy department store. I got verbally abused for no reason on a daily basis. I could do nothing but take it or get fired. Pretty much every other job that deals with the public is expected to do the same thing, except for the police. Can't disrespect them without getting arrested?