[Freeridin']

The local shuttle mountain has significantly blown up in popularity, which, for the most part is largely beneficial. A new trail or a reworked one pops up almost every weekend. Fortunately, the land is privately owned by a very generous individual. I believe the trails are relatively secure despite their growing popularity.

However, I now feel the need to create a trail system that I can call my own... or at least be on a much smaller popularity scale. Currently studying geography, I've spent countless hours searching for the perfect spot; south facing, a relatively mellow grade, decent dirt, and a shuttle road. The majority of potential locations are located on either public land with a public road or private land also with public roads. The legality of these are indeed in question, but let's not discuss that.

My number one spot is located on private land with a private, gated, driveway that would be used as the shuttle road. No chance of building here without permission from the land owner. Which leads me to my question, how do I go about approaching the owner?

My thoughts are to simply leave a letter in the mail box explaining the situation and include some contact information in case they would like to further discuss. What are some points to include or not within this letter?

 

[jonKranked]

Proper spelling and good grammar.

 

[bizutch]

I'd make a very short introduction letter just indicating you'd like to gauge his interest or possible openness to a trail access proposal. And then state you'd like to either stop by the house to discuss it in person or go over a "concept" over the phone.

The longer you make that letter, the more chances at NO the owner gets. You have to courteously bait him to poke his head out and say hello.

I suggest offering to do it over a free meal for him.

 

[Sghost]

If gated driveway is

and not

I wouldn't get your hopes up

 

[snowskilz]

In regards to your question find out who the land owner is and attempt to contact them with a hand written letter. Hand written envelope etc. This will get there attention. Once you get their attention you will need to sell them on the idea of why its good for them to let you do this. Be cautious as there have been many areas like this in colorado over the years that eventually get shut down.

for the early comment about the "shuttle mountain" i would highly suggest you and your shuttle crew make sure to put in some shovel time up there. you never know, there may me more trails around the valley that with a good days work will present themselves.

 

[LMC]

a bottle of scotch

 

[DirtMcGirk]

What you need to ask for, assuming that they're willing to speak/deal with you, is what's called a "Memo of Understanding." Essentially this is going to state that you, and only you, are allowed to build there. In the event that someone gets hurt on your trails on their land, you will assume all liability. Also, offer and follow through with getting some insurance. The world is a litigious place, and even if your best buddy doesn't want to sue you when he gets hurt, his health insurance has the right to sue to recover their costs.

And the real truth is this: even with the memo in place, even with the insurance in place, paid up and properly adjusted, you're asking the landowner to take a hell of a risk. The kind of riding that DH encompasses is risky, and its a known risk, and so the standard of negligence and assume risk really land on you and the land owner.

The risk you're asking them to undertake is the kind of risk that can snap a family's future. Someone gets really hurt or killed, and you're in the millions of dollars really fast. Even with rules posted, a signed release of liability, so on and so forth, the land owner is putting his nuts on the chopping block for you.

I wouldn't get my hopes up.

 

[Freeridin']

I've discovered the owners name through public real estate information readily available on line. A 33 year old who moved in within the past 5 years...one of the better possible situations imho. However, I don't think I should use any of this information (his name) while contacting him. People can be alarmed on what imformation can be found out about them online.

I like the idea of a hand written letter and also considered either a local six pack or a bottle, but I think I need to contact the guy first.

Snowskilz- It's not necessarily having a lack of places to ride but more so of having a place that I can claim my own... also within a shorter distance from home.

Sghost- We're talking about mountains here...

 

[Freeridin']

DirtMcGirk- I completely understand and agree with your points. That being said, I am not willing nor do I have the resources to take on a situation involving such actions...yeah I'm aware that sounds very ignorant and selfish. I appreciate the people who go through such a laborious process in efforts to support the community.

 

[4130biker]

A question for Dirt: Is the landowner in "less" trouble if someone is building without their knowledge? ***Not an endorsement for illegally building on this guy's property.
Based on the liability involved, would it be better to locate a spot and work with the local DNR or forest service for something like this?

 

[bdamschen]

The risk you're asking them to undertake is the kind of risk that can snap a family's future. Someone gets really hurt or killed, and you're in the millions of dollars really fast. Even with rules posted, a signed release of liability, so on and so forth, the land owner is putting his nuts on the chopping block for you.

I wouldn't get my hopes up.

It's because of this that even if I ever owned enough land where I could have perfectly accessible shuttle trails built on it that wouldn't disturb my neighbors or my drunken nude skeet shooting in my back yard, I would still not allow people to build and ride trails on it.

I could not accept the risk that I could loose my home and ruin my family's future so people could ride awesome DH trails. It sucks, but it's true.

 

[DirtMcGirk]

Under the common law of the US, and mind you there are nuances for every jurisdiction, ignorance is not a legal defense. And the "lord of the land" you are responsible for everything that happens on it, everything built on it, and any and all injuries that occur on it.

Think of it like this. Someone is walking down your street, on your sidewalk, which you have legal obligation over as its attached to your property. You're in Miami, knee deep in strippers, railing Bolivian flake like it was Whistler dirt, and you have no idea that its snowed at your house in lets say North-bumble-fvck.

Grandma slips and falls, blows out her hip.

Guess who the "search for deeper pockets" is going to come looking for? Yup, you guessed it, you and your nest egg, and your home owners insurance.

This is why people get so bent out of shape when you build on their property. I've read a lot of anecdotes both here on RM and on PB about how people were surprised and offended when someone caught them building on private property and were subsequently kicked off and their trails destroyed. I get you put in a lot of work, but I put in a lot of money to have my house. Its not worth it for me to risk it to lose my house because you want to ride there.

 

[Pslide]

I'd leave a Trek Session on his front door step with a bow on it and a note saying "give this a spin - have fun!" And then come back a few weeks later and leave another note saying "now think about what we could do on your property...I'll do the dirty work, you just have fun!"

 

[StabprimoMonkee]

I would go and meet the owner in person. If all you leave is a note then he is responding to a note if you go there in person, he is talking to a real person.

Bring a present and be honest. If the guy has doubts, find out what it would take to alleviate them and if within your capability go do it.

There you go, one happy landlord or at least a best shot taken.

 

[bizutch]

I'll shorten my statement to make it easy to cut through the fluff:

Hi "Awesome hill owning dude",

I have a proposal I'd like you to review and I'll buy you lunch if you'll allow me to present it in person. Like ribs, wings or shrimp?

Sincerely,

Guy buying you free lunch.

 

[Bikael Molton]

No landowner in his right mind would say yes, in the USA.

I know of a few cases where secret/trespassed/illegal trails were built on private property and the owner was cajoled/convinced into turning a blind eye after he found out. Convincing him/her that what you are doing is relatively safe and A GREAT THING FOR KIDS TO DO could be your best bet. "It's easier to ask for forgiveness..." would be my strategy.

It would also be a recipe for heartbreak, but when isn't trail-building a gamble?

 

[johnbryanpeters]

No landowner in his right mind would say yes, in the USA...

Waal, not so.

Vermont, for instance, has a landowner protection law - you break your leg on my land, you can't, at the end of the day, get a piece of me.

However... the legislature did not really do it up right - someone can sue me irrespective of the law. They'll eventually lose, but it'll cost me legal fees, which are by definition steep, and time and energy better spent on other things.

I would like to get the law changed to say that the party suing shall pay all costs unless they prevail.

Back to the original discussion - face-to-face is always better than letters. If you don't know the landowner, find a friend who does and weasel an introduction.

 

[4130biker]

Dirt- good description, thank you!

Freeridin- out of all the places to build a trail, it sounds to me like someone's private land is the least desirable. I mean, even if you get the dude to say yes, wouldn't you feel some sort of moral responsibility for asking what is probably a family to put so much on the line? Your ideas sound great as far as building go- how about the local trail advocacy/ work group? Or...

 

[Bikael Molton]

I mean, even if you get the dude to say yes, wouldn't you feel some sort of moral responsibility for asking what is probably a family to put so much on the line?

Good point there.

You and your homies better have a "I'm crawling out to the public street, holding my guts in with my hand" policy.

It's not just the asshole who initiates the lawsuit; it's the good guy's asshole insurance company.