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Atherton Bikes wants you....

dump

Turbo Monkey
Oct 12, 2001
8,194
4,419
Am I reading this correctly? They've already hit their target.
Screen Shot 2020-11-03 at 9.01.07 AM.png
 

Jeremy R

<b>x</b>
Nov 15, 2001
9,698
1,053
behind you with a snap pop
This is like when I see someone on Facebook who does not let me sign them up for health insurance during open enrollment but then I see them start a go fund me for a surgery. Good luck with that.
 
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canadmos

Cake Tease
May 29, 2011
20,190
19,155
Canaderp
How does this even work? You send them money and get what back? How do you back out?

Its too bad that you can't see the actual donations, like other crowd funding sites, there must be some big sums of money in there...
 

dump

Turbo Monkey
Oct 12, 2001
8,194
4,419
How does this even work? You send them money and get what back? How do you back out?

Its too bad that you can't see the actual donations, like other crowd funding sites, there must be some big sums of money in there...
Unclear.

No doubt there are some big investors in that list.

In the last two hours, 111 have pledged. Averaging the difference in the amount from earlier this morning gives about £215/pledger.
(772104-748189)/(985-874) ~= £215/pledger.

Prior to this if we do the math, we get about £856/pledger
748189/874 ~= £856/pledger

If these numbers are to be believed, their brand is strong. Folks are plopping down at a chance to "own" a part of a company. I believe you can get your cash out in a liquidity event (i.e. company sells), but I'd have lots of questions before plopping down. This is far from a typical investment to say the least.
 

canadmos

Cake Tease
May 29, 2011
20,190
19,155
Canaderp
Unclear.

No doubt there are some big investors in that list.

In the last two hours, 111 have pledged. Averaging the difference in the amount from earlier this morning gives about £215/pledger.
(772104-748189)/(985-874) ~= £215/pledger.

Prior to this if we do the math, we get about £856/pledger
748189/874 ~= £856/pledger

If these numbers are to be believed, their brand is strong. Folks are plopping down at a chance to "own" a part of a company. I believe you can get your cash out in a liquidity event (i.e. company sells), but I'd have lots of questions before plopping down. This is far from a typical investment to say the least.
Deep in the comments on the Pinkbike page, there are some people commenting on how it reached something like 90% of the goal within 16 minutes of going live. That was with less than 70 people.

:panic:
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
18,850
9,556
AK
Because your idea is not good enough for a business loan.
 

xy9ine

Turbo Monkey
Mar 22, 2004
2,940
353
vancouver eastside
i can't comprehend how their framebuilding tech (additive manufacturing / bonding, etc) - though really cool - can be at all viable for large scale manufacturing / ramping up to a level that's able to generate enough unit sales / revenue (and reduced pricing) to pay more than just the athertons themselves. unless they're planning on adding another stream that utilizes "conventional" framebuilding tech perhaps? can only sell so many gucci $4k frames.
 

mykel

closer to Periwinkle
Apr 19, 2013
5,067
3,778
sw ontario canada
I know a buddy looked into a frame, and by the time he could get it here in Canukistan the price was eye watering. Something like 5500-6000. He ended up deciding on a full Intense build for 6700.
 

mykel

closer to Periwinkle
Apr 19, 2013
5,067
3,778
sw ontario canada
Wow, it came down to an Atherton or Intense. Interesting short list!
Don't really know what was on his list. We got talking about racing, Athertons came up and he mentioned in passing looking into a frame and the cost. The whole build your own angles was a bit interesting to him.
 

Kanye West

220# bag of hacktastic
Aug 31, 2006
3,740
470
I'll do it if they commit to naming all their frames "Lord Bummer". Despite all being different from one another.
 

ianjenn

Turbo Monkey
Sep 12, 2006
2,998
702
SLO
As long as they hand out free Blow and Hookers at their quarterly investors retreats in Barcelona I am in as well.
 

ZHendo

Turbo Monkey
Oct 29, 2006
1,661
147
PNW
This is deeply confusing to me, but appears to have paid off for them. I can only assume that the family has PLENTY of cash at this point, unless they sunk all of it into their bike park, which I find hard to believe. Also, what is this money buying? If I wanted an Atherton frame, I'd pay in on a pre-order for a frame, but this is strange. It's like if Kickstarter got rid of the incentives...
 

Inclag

Turbo Monkey
Sep 9, 2001
2,750
439
MA
3D printing as an efficient, cost effective, and scalable model for production of bikes?

Har har.... I'll pass.
 

maxyedor

<b>TOOL PRO</b>
Oct 20, 2005
5,496
3,140
In the bathroom, fighting a battle
Because your idea is not good enough for a business loan.
Why take out a loan and owe interest when the internet will give you money for free?

don't forget they can be made with custom geo. i'd be curious to see cost models vs custom builders/options.
I mean yeah, custom geo is cool, but how many people can accurately identify a geometry tweak they actually want/need? While certainly cool, they'd be better off offering 3d printed lugs as an upgrade and using some non-horrifically expensive production method for the standard dimension parts. But hey, if they internet wants to throw cash at them, who am I to say they're wrong?
 

6thElement

Schrodinger's Immigrant
Jul 29, 2008
15,827
13,060
We should crowd-fund the Grim Monkey, a Ridemonkey version of the Grim Donut built by the Athertons.
How would you get one chainstay at 420mm and the other at 450mm to keep everyone happy on their chainstay length?
 

Loki87

Monkey
Aug 24, 2008
181
146
Salzburg, Austria
I mean yeah, custom geo is cool, but how many people can accurately identify a geometry tweak they actually want/need?
I would even go as far as saying that custom geo is more a relic of the old times when manufacturers had not yet figured out good geometry. I was always after custom geo back then, but my desire for such a thing has almost completely vanished these days, as i can hop on almost any bike by any decent company and be 99% sure the bike won´t be holding me back. And even for most of the people with more specific preferences, there´s most likely a decent bike out there. Custom geo is definitely a selling point, but i guess we´re talking about half a degree of headangle for shits and giggles here, rather than some whacky one off with 520mm chainstays and a 70 degree head angle, since they will most certainly limit the options to something within a reasonable (and tested!) range.
It´s a nice gimmick to feel like you got something special, but overall the usefulness is pretty mediocre i feel and with mountainbiking becoming somewhat mainstream, the custom market seems to become even more irrelevant as people will be lusting after the newest, perfectly styled complete bike with fancy stash compartments and other bells and whistles. So yeah, you´re probably right in saying they´d be better off with some conventional design.
I have also always questioned the long term viability of their production method, as it does not leave many options for visual tweaks somewhere down the line. How are they gonna compete with the new Yeti or Specialized spaceship looking designs that´ll be all the hype three years from now, when the Atherton bikes can only offer a different colour scheme. Seems like they´re backed firmly into the small scale premium niche with that approach, with not too much potential to expand on it.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,559
24,182
media blackout
I would even go as far as saying that custom geo is more a relic of the old times when manufacturers had not yet figured out good geometry. I was always after custom geo back then, but my desire for such a thing has almost completely vanished these days, as i can hop on almost any bike by any decent company and be 99% sure the bike won´t be holding me back. And even for most of the people with more specific preferences, there´s most likely a decent bike out there. Custom geo is definitely a selling point, but i guess we´re talking about half a degree of headangle for shits and giggles here, rather than some whacky one off with 520mm chainstays and a 70 degree head angle, since they will most certainly limit the options to something within a reasonable (and tested!) range.
It´s a nice gimmick to feel like you got something special, but overall the usefulness is pretty mediocre i feel and with mountainbiking becoming somewhat mainstream, the custom market seems to become even more irrelevant as people will be lusting after the newest, perfectly styled complete bike with fancy stash compartments and other bells and whistles. So yeah, you´re probably right in saying they´d be better off with some conventional design.
I have also always questioned the long term viability of their production method, as it does not leave many options for visual tweaks somewhere down the line. How are they gonna compete with the new Yeti or Specialized spaceship looking designs that´ll be all the hype three years from now, when the Atherton bikes can only offer a different colour scheme. Seems like they´re backed firmly into the small scale premium niche with that approach, with not too much potential to expand on it.
this is a good point, but custom stuff is always bigger sales wise on the road side of the business. atherton road bike?
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
18,850
9,556
AK
Really, the biggest concern I have is by the time I submit my custom geometry request and they produce the bike and deliver it, the geometry will no longer be modern.
 

OGRipper

back alley ripper
Feb 3, 2004
10,647
1,116
NORCAL is the hizzle
I tend to agree that custom isn't really needed at this point for most people. (Reach adjust like GG's headset system is pretty rad though.) For sure a custom bike was once the pinnacle, but that's not really workable given how most high-end carbon bikes are made these days. So they're hanging their hat on a niche. Some people really want a truly unique bike and are willing to pay for it. How many remains to be seen. And of course whether anyone needs it is a separate question - one that rarely matters when we're talking about bikes.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
18,850
9,556
AK
I tend to agree that custom isn't really needed at this point for most people. (Reach adjust like GG's headset system is pretty rad though.) For sure a custom bike was once the pinnacle, but that's not really workable given how most high-end carbon bikes are made these days. So they're hanging their hat on a niche. Some people really want a truly unique bike and are willing to pay for it. How many remains to be seen. And of course whether anyone needs it is a separate question - one that rarely matters when we're talking about bikes.
The idea does make a lot of sense in being able to rapidly change and tweak things. Cost of carbon molds and the fact that the industry™ changes every year and marketing constantly spewing out how half a degree makes a bike "ridable" is a good reason to have rapidly-adjustable manufacturing. There may be better ways to do this in the future though, with 3-d printed molds or something, but conceptually it seems to be one of the things that has created a great deal of frustration for smaller manufacturers and even caused many to go out of business or stop being competitive.
 

Loki87

Monkey
Aug 24, 2008
181
146
Salzburg, Austria
One thing i could really see them succeed with though is a form of "custom" product in the form of a pro or signature model, something that is widely available among various action sports, but totally missing in mtb, except for maybe some custom paint jobs here or there.
If they can build a good roster of athletes and offer slightly different frame geometries, modeled after a certain athlete´s preferences, that could be a huge selling point for them. Truvativ tried it with their signature line of components and other than that we really only get pro saddles. In BMX, skiing or snowboarding pro models are a huge thing though. Just imagine riding your favourite pro riders geo and maybe even the different linkage he/she rides for a more progressive setup or whatever. Basically make their bikes real professional racebikes, perfectly identical with what the pros are racing on so that their customers can be sure to always purchase a bike that´s 100% the pinnacle of technology. Then slap a pro rider´s name or logo on it and bam, they´re gonna sell like hot cakes. That would also solve the problem of keeping the bikes fresh. It worked for BMX for years and mountainbikers are certainly not above buying into some kind of hype or lifestyle. Just imagine the impact a Bryceland pro model would have...
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
18,850
9,556
AK
One thing i could really see them succeed with though is a form of "custom" product in the form of a pro or signature model, something that is widely available among various action sports, but totally missing in mtb, except for maybe some custom paint jobs here or there.
If they can build a good roster of athletes and offer slightly different frame geometries, modeled after a certain athlete´s preferences, that could be a huge selling point for them. Truvativ tried it with their signature line of components and other than that we really only get pro saddles. In BMX, skiing or snowboarding pro models are a huge thing though. Just imagine riding your favourite pro riders geo and maybe even the different linkage he/she rides for a more progressive setup or whatever. Basically make their bikes real professional racebikes, perfectly identical with what the pros are racing on so that their customers can be sure to always purchase a bike that´s 100% the pinnacle of technology. Then slap a pro rider´s name or logo on it and bam, they´re gonna sell like hot cakes. That would also solve the problem of keeping the bikes fresh. It worked for BMX for years and mountainbikers are certainly not above buying into some kind of hype or lifestyle. Just imagine the impact a Bryceland pro model would have...
Are you sure you aren't green with scales?
 

Inclag

Turbo Monkey
Sep 9, 2001
2,750
439
MA
Seriously, the best option I see for them is to basically have the bike aspect of the business be a side hustle and to build their capacity as a model shop/additive manufacturing resource to fully utilize the additive equipment. The bike angle just seems like a good way to get additional funding for more capital equipment and is a feel good story which is how you get money from others.

Basically build a competent model shop which can be a nice after biking retirement nest egg or have the option after a 5 year or so period to sell the business or merge it with a larger rapid prototyping firm as that is just kind of what happens within that industry. Lots of the larger companies within the space acquire the smaller fish to remove competition, expand their service outreach, and to maintain expedient lead times and delivery.
 

iRider

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2008
5,648
3,089
I believe they just wanted their own brand to make the ideal bikes for themselves. To offset the costs they will sell a few to fanboys/-girls. I can also see that privateers could benefit from an extended support, like e.g. say you buy one of their frames and they allow you under their tent at the races.