[stumpy]

Originally posted by stumpy
Using the gluconeogenisis pathway, you body can break down fat stores and use them for glucose. This is not always a good idea though. One reason is because it takes a lot of ATP (a different kind of energy) to break the fat stores down.

First of all, after I reread my original post, I mistakenly put the word glucose in the sentence about breaking down fat stores instead of the word energy. OOPSS Geez, sorry I committed such a crime. Second, Wheels dude, this is SUPPOSE to be a friendly forum...don't let it upset you so much. It's not really worth it.
Third:

http://muscle.ucsd.edu/musintro/fattyacid.shtml
Energy From Fatty Acids
Fat molecules consist of three fatty acid chains connected by a glycerol backbone. Fatty acids are basically long chains of carbon and hydrogen and are the major source of energy during normal activities.
Fatty acids are broken down by progressively cleaving two carbon bits and converting these to acetyl coenzyme A. The acetyl CoA is the oxidized by the same citric acid cycle involved in the metabolism of glucose. For every two carbons in a fatty acid, oxidation yields 5 ATPs generating the acetyl CoA and 12 more ATPs oxidizing the coenzyme. This makes fat a terrific molecule in which to store energy, as the body well knows (much to our dismay).
The only biological drawback to this, and other, forms of oxidative metabolism is its dependence on oxygen. Thus, if energy is required more rapidly than oxygen can be delivered, muscles switch to the less efficient anaerobic pathways. Interestingly, this implies that an anaerobic workout will not "burn" any fat, but will preferentially deplete the body of glucose. Of course, your body can't survive very long on just anaerobic metabolism...it just can't generate enough energy.



http://www.tri-ecoach.com/art3.htm
Most nutritional counselors recommend that sedentary individuals consume no more than 15% of their total calories as fat. Many exercise physiologists differ on this opinion, recommending anywhere from 15% up to 30%. The higher values may be necessary for endurance athletes given the amount of energy we need to fuel training and racing in addition to our everyday activities. During aerobic endurance training we burn some proportion of fat simultaneously with glycogen (the stored form of carbohydrates). The ratio of fat to carbohydrate we use is entirely speed dependent. At moderate speeds we utilize a higher proportions of fat to glycogen. As we go faster, the mix becomes progressively more biased toward glycogen usage.
This makes sense when we consider the example of the IronMan distance athlete's metabolism. Physiologists know that well-trained athletes can store only about 2000 (glycogen) calories within their muscle tissue and liver. This is enough to get you through about 2.5 hours of very intense racing. Athletes can't digest carbohydrates fast enough to keep up with the caloric demands of a high quality IronMan effort on glycogen stores alone. My relatively lean (~7% fat) body has approximately 32,000 calories of stored energy as fat (I can't safely use all the calories, but I won't need to). If I keep a reasonable pace, I have several times the caloric energy (with the help of stored fat) that I need to complete an IronMan. If I'm daring (or foolish) and go very (too) fast, I'll burn too high a proportion of carbs and only a little fat. This is the scenario where athletes bonk and "lose it" before the finish. Meanwhile, if I cruise along at a relatively comfortable pace, I can cover 140.6 miles in a day!

Peroxisome-proliferator-activated receptor delta activates fat metabolism to prevent obesity.
Wang YX, Lee CH, Tiep S, Yu RT, Ham J, Kang H, Evans RM
Gene Expression Laboratory, The Salk Institute, 10010 North Torrey Pines Road, La Jolla, CA 92037, USA.

In contrast to the well-established roles of PPARgamma and PPARalpha in lipid metabolism, little is known for PPARdelta in this process. We show here that targeted activation of PPARdelta in adipose tissue specifically induces expression of genes required for fatty acid oxidation and energy dissipation, which in turn leads to improved lipid profiles and reduced adiposity.

 

[Toshi]

man, there really is a lot of misinformation going around. READ THE BOOK, or at least the introduction, or if that's too much, the faq on atkins site.

http://atkins.com/helpatkins/newfaq/categories/MythsAboutAtkins.html

as for the "right idea, but moderation is better", less carbs taken in == % of weight lost that is fat. eventually the "diet" does become less extreme -- once you lose the weight you wanted to lose you add back carbs until you find how much is enough. no, you can't go back to how you ate before, but why is that surprising at all?

 

[Tenchiro]

Lovely...

Dieters Charge Atkins Approach Damaged Hearts
1 hour, 32 minutes ago


By Maggie Fox, Health and Science Correspondent

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Jody Gorran was proud of his 32-inch (81 cm) waistline -- until a heart scan showed an artery had become almost entirely blocked during the two years he was on the Atkins diet.

Lisa Huskey was happy about being on a diet with her 16-year-old daughter, Rachel, until Rachel dropped dead from a heart arrhythmia in class.

Both say the high-fat, high-protein approach advocated by the Atkins diet was responsible.

"What I contend is that the Atkins diet gave me heart disease," Gorran said at a news conference sponsored by the Physician's Committee for Responsible Medicine. "I traded a 32-inch waist for heart disease."

The Atkins diet has sparked both admiration and debate with its radical approach based on the theory that carbohydrates make people fat.

It calls for a stringent break-in period designed to induce a metabolic change called ketosis. Dieters are advised to shun carbohydrates in favor of fats and meat.

The body, overloading on fat and protein, theoretically breaks down fat cells for energy and sheds pounds of water as it struggles to get rid of toxic breakdown products.

Studies have shown the diet -- like many diets -- can help people lose weight.

But many doctors and the American Heart Association (news - web sites) have repeatedly warned that the Atkins approach could be dangerous because it is too high in fat and protein and too low in fiber and vitamins.

"Anyone who has even been on this diet can tell you they spend the first few days in the bathroom, urinating," said Dr. Paul Robinson, director of adolescent medicine at the University of Missouri hospital, where Rachel Huskey was taken.

The body is shedding water to clear out the breakdown products from fat in the diet, Robinson said at the news conference. The danger comes because the process pulls calcium and potassium from the blood.

HEART RHYTHM AFFECTED

Robinson said Rachel's calcium and potassium levels were abnormally low. "These are very important electrolytes in regulating heartbeat," he said.

"Adolescents, particularly, should not go on this diet, until there is more research," added Robinson, who published a paper in the Southern Medical Journal about the case.

Lisa Huskey tearfully recounted how she and her daughter went on the diet together, happy that it allowed them to eat all the meat they wanted. "It sounds like it is too good to be true, this diet," she said.

Dr. Richard Fleming, a cardiologist who has studied high-fat diets, attacked the premise that carbohydrates make people any fatter than any other food.

"Obesity is nothing more than the overconsumption of calories and it doesn't matter whether those calories are carbohydrates, fat or protein," Fleming said.

Fleming said the high fat content of the Atkins diet could worsen heart disease not only through raised cholesterol but by inflaming the arteries.

Gorran said when he started the diet, his total cholesterol level was a very low 148. In May 2001 it had gone up to 230. Anything above 200 is considered unhealthy.

A scan of his arteries before he started the diet had shown no evidence of heart disease.

"Two and a half years later, after being on the Atkins diet for that length of time, I had heart disease," the 53-year-old Florida businessman said.

A new scan showed one artery was 90 percent blocked.

Three weeks ago, Gorran had an angioplasty -- a procedure to clear his clogged artery. A mesh tube called a stent was inserted to keep his artery clear.

"I felt, overall, that I had been betrayed," he said.

Atkins Nutritionals, Inc. says its diet is safe.

 

[Jr_Bullit]

Alright you silly anti - Atkins peoples....I have the perfect specimen for you to hem and haw over...my dad.

I personally think your diet should be based around your body. I.e. for some people, such as my father, the Atkins diet is perfect, for other people, like me, it would make us sick and nasty and crabby and mean and on and on and on.

My dad has had a lifetime of upset stomachs, nasty bowel twisting cramps and no doctor could ever put their finger on why. He was heavy, always has had a big tummy over his skinny short legs, and knew he needed to change something.

About two years ago he and mom started on a mission to fix his tummy. They cut all dairy from the diet, most spices, most spicy foods and he was still being torn apart. Finally he started going to an allergy clinic trying to identify what food it was that was ripping him to shreds. Turns out, the best theory they can come up with is that he's topped out on the amount of complex carbohydrates his body can ever and will ever handle. He cannot eat anything with any significant amount of carbs in it period.

So they started the Atkins thing...over a year ago. He's dropped is 220lb 5'7" frame down to about 175, his belly has literally shrunk (it was amazing), he's got colour in his skin, and all the nasty ickiness has gone away. They've slowly started adding lo-carb type products back in, and some soy...and he's doing amazingly well and is so healthy! The doc checks on him once a month because he's had a history of health problems that would make this diet seem less then ideal, but all of his health problems are slowly receding. So no trash talking Atkins, cuz so far that's the only thing keeping my dad up and happy and healthy .

Different foods for different people...pay attention to your body.

 

[Tenchiro]

Just because your dad can't have carbs doesn't mean Atkins is good for you.

 

[Jr_Bullit]

Originally posted by Tenchiro
Just because your dad can't have carbs doesn't mean Atkins is good for you.

Ahem...

It's not good for Everyone...shoot it says that like on page one of the book...but it IS good for some people...and doing it is hard work...it's not a get skinny quick scheme, nor is it hairbrained. I'm not saying it's going to work for you or for the next guy, but there are definitely a core group of individuals for whom Atkins is the right match for their body. My dad is one of them.

For me, well shoot I seem to be the penultimate rabbit. I eat hardly any carbs, and hardly any meat. Just enough to keep me goin, everything else is pretty much fruit and vegetable. And it works for me...energy level good, no food coma after eating, though sugar defitely makes me loopy .

For others it needs to be a perfect balance, and for some it doesn't matter what they eat.

 

[no_secrets]

Just like my IronMan Triathlete buddy told me when I started taking a bunch of sports suplements "You are an idiot!, you want a diet plan, I'll give you one. Eat what ever you want and excercise everyday"

 

[Tenchiro]

Originally posted by Jr_Bullit
It's not good for Everyone...shoot it says that like on page one of the book...but it IS good for some people...and doing it is hard work...it's not a get skinny quick scheme, nor is it hairbrained. I'm not saying it's going to work for you or for the next guy, but there are definitely a core group of individuals for whom Atkins is the right match for their body. My dad is one of them.

While that may be true, there are many different types of people that use Atkins, not just those in your dads position. Because it allows them to lose weight, and never move their ass off the couch. It seems most people do not care about harmful side effects, as long as they look thin. Phen Fen, Speed and Ephedrine are all examples of this. Many of these people will never read the book, and many will stay on this diet for too long. Many of these people will suffer adverse effects.

All medical conditions aside, a balanced diet with regular exercise will ALWAYS the healthiest solution to staying fit. Nobody ever developed gout, kidney stones or heart problems from a balanced dietand exercise.

 

[Jr_Bullit]

Originally posted by Tenchiro
While that may be true, there are many different types of people that use Atkins, not just those in your dads position. Because it allows them to lose weight, and never move their ass off the couch. It seems most people do not care about harmful side effects, as long as they look thin. Phen Fen, Speed and Ephedrine are all examples of this. Many of these people will never read the book, and many will stay on this diet for too long. Many of these people will suffer adverse effects.

All medical conditions aside, a balanced diet with regular exercise will ALWAYS the healthiest solution to staying fit. Nobody ever developed gout, kidney stones or heart problems from a balanced dietand exercise.

True, although if we're perfectly honest, those folks that are getting "sick" on Atkins and are spreading the nasty rumours that you get skinny while sitting on your couch bein lazy are the ones that aren't following the diet plan...and probably haven't read the book. They read enough to get themselves into trouble. Same goes for a lot of diets...you read enough to think you know what you're doing, but you don't actually read the book and follow it's guidelines.

 

[goosemagoo]

I'm all for this or any other diet if it gets obese people down to a weight that allows them to become more active. A 350 lb. lard ass would have a pretty hard time sitting on a bike seat for extended periods of time. Heck, all that weight pushing their a$$ onto the seat would probably make the said seat disappear between their cheeks leaving two huge watermelon looking things swinging in the breeze, banging up against their seatpost.