[manhattanprjkt83]

If this is a huge purchase (indicating you may be stretching a bit to afford it), I would recomend the Subaru because it should be much more reliable than the Audi. The 2.7L twin turbo in the Audi can make some huge power, but the reliability of car is pretty suspect and anything that brakes will cost big $$$ compared to the Subaru. With the STI you'll have to worry about replacing the tires (they are practically r-compound race tires) and the brake pads as they both tend to go fast.

I have heard the same thing about the audi, and considering i cant find one with less than 50k on it...problems might become a reality. I am stretching a bit so i do want reliability. I am well aware of the tire issue, prob go with seomthing a bit harder...I take turns like a maniac...anyway im thinking the sti is the way to go

 

[Toshi]

uh, make sure you can afford insurance before you plop down the cash money

 

[BillT]

The inherent unreliability of the 2.7L twin turbo engine in the S4 (and the Audi Allroad and A6 of the same time period) is pretty much why you can't find any of those models as part of Audi's certified pre-owned program - Audi doesn't want to warranty them.

Also, be careful of a used STI - try to find one that has not been modded or is new - a lot of STI owners are rather young and treat the cars harshly. You may want to consider picking up a WRX wagon (or a Saab 9-2x with a massive rebate) or turbo Forester as the insurance should be cheaper, they are more practical (especially for biking), and you stand a greater chance that someone more mature/responsible owned the car prior to you (if buying used).

 

[OrthoPT]

Just gotta chime in here, I've got a 2005 Subaru Legacy wagon and it's totally reliable and handles lilke a dream in ALL conditions! It's comfortable, quiet as asewing machine (thanks to its boxer engine), warms up quickly (great for those days when it's FREEZING out), and it'll hold 2 BMW TMX's plus all your gear inside. There, I'm done.

 

[steve45]

WOW that dahlback racing site has some jaw dropping audi's on it.
cheers for the link, that has been bookmarked.

for you quattro s1 group B rally car fans out there.
http://www.mtm-france.com/videos/audi/audi_s1_25_quattro_turini.mpg
stig blomquist takes the quattro round the col di turini, just wait till a bit later in the clip when he's really got the revs up there, i swear that car is the sound of god himself, i nearly pop out a nugget everytime i hear it.

 

[Sandwich]

oh how i love to write about caaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaars

DP (DRUNK post)

anyways, as far as your decision goes, I would advise to go for the STI, if the condition is good. Both cars suffer from fanboys. One is a boy-racer, and the other is a rich boy-racer, so take your pick. If somebody can afford an STI, chances are they took good care of it. I don't think i would say the same thing for the S4. Both cars are going to be pretty similar, wonderfully powerful and very grippy, but the STI is going to be newer (might mean better), and the S4 is still gonna be heavier (also more luxurious). Also, the audi 2.7 is not known for it's durability. I don't know much about modern audis, except that the old ones were apparently more reliable, and that isn't saying much. Please keep in mind what else you could afford for the same price.

#2, yeah, that radiator is probably a differential cooler. Initially i thought oil, as they're the same size, but it's connected to the diff, and I have looked into diff coolers before when I was looking at viscous LSD transfer cases for an Eagle project. When those cases spin a lot (high horsepower, low traction), they create a lot of heat, which can destroy liquid viscosity. Although, I believe most audi's used open (mechanical) or torSen (mechanical). Both would be coated in oil, but neither would need significant cooling, I don't think. When no expense is spared, however, why bother?

Lastly, don't get too excited about the A3, it's underpowered and overweighted, and you can get similar or better perfomance out of a WRX or STI, and it will probably still cost less. Still, audi's are rad.

 

[WSU DH'er]

Hands down the subie is better... and i dont mean in just some situations but in every situation....

I really have no clue but i drive a 2.5rs so i have to say subie!!

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

The 3.2 A3 will probably start around $30k, but once you hit a couple of option boxes, you'll probably be closer to $35k than $30k.

my neighbor has an S3... sweet car..
but a few days ago i saw an A3 on the street with a weird bodykit in front of me.. when i got closer i saw RS3...

damnn.. i didnt even know there was an RS3.. it was a pretty sweet car....

 

[stevew]

http://www.dahlbackracing.se/english/main.asp

Go to the gallery and check out the black Quattro. That thing is insane! :evil:

I used to have video of that car from the inside and outside doing figure 8 donuts. All 4 wheels spinning in all their tire smoking glory.

Some country boys Quattro and VR6 Turbo Rallye Golf.

Fast Enough in Kentucky.

 

[manhattanprjkt83]

The inherent unreliability of the 2.7L twin turbo engine in the S4 (and the Audi Allroad and A6 of the same time period) is pretty much why you can't find any of those models as part of Audi's certified pre-owned program - Audi doesn't want to warranty them.

Also, be careful of a used STI - try to find one that has not been modded or is new - a lot of STI owners are rather young and treat the cars harshly. You may want to consider picking up a WRX wagon (or a Saab 9-2x with a massive rebate) or turbo Forester as the insurance should be cheaper, they are more practical (especially for biking), and you stand a greater chance that someone more mature/responsible owned the car prior to you (if buying used).

See the way i figure, is that the sti is only a year old tops, and the car is made to be hammered on...Im looking for a completely stock one, dont want any mods at all, not into much modding other than suspension ... I just cant get over the bling factor of the blue audi.

 

[BillT]

Assuming your not going to drop a good amount of $$$ on a set of quality coilovers, the only real suspension mod you need to make the STI is to get a set of STI pink springs (a little stiffer and a small drop) and maybe some stiffer strut top mounts.

 

[SkaredShtles]

Just gotta chime in here, I've got a 2005 Subaru Legacy wagon and it's totally reliable

Dude. It's a 2005. How can you comment on the reliability of a basically brand new car?

-S.S.-

 

[OrthoPT]

Dude. It's a 2005. How can you comment on the reliability of a basically brand new car?

-S.S.-

Dude, I meant as far as handling. Sorry if you didn't get it.

 

[SkaredShtles]

Dude, I meant as far as handling. Sorry if you didn't get it.

What's meant by "reliable handling"??

-S.S.-

 

[OrthoPT]

What's meant by "reliable handling"??

-S.S.-

Umm... Predictable, controllable, stable in "adverse conditions". Is english your first or second laguage? Do you need me to get out my dictionary and spell out what "Adverse Conditions" might mean as well?

 

[Sandwich]

Umm... Predictable, controllable, stable in "adverse conditions". Is english your first or second laguage? Do you need me to get out my dictionary and spell out what "Adverse Conditions" might mean as well?

first of all, you didn't specify reliable handling. I thought you meant reliable in terms of the car starting every time, especially in the course of our discussion, which has touched on the reliability of Audis, not to mention that you add "...and handles lilke a dream in ALL conditions". What the hell?

Second, nobody uses the term "reliable" to describe handling. Maybe "confidence inspiring" or "stable". More importantly, it doesn't really matter if your car handles "reliably" (ie, the same in all conditions) so much as if it handles well. No car handles the same in snow as it does on dry pavement. Perhaps in rain with good tires, but braking distances etc. are still going to be increased, regardless of awd et al.


Thirdly, you're retarded, and you fail. Go back to "Insulting people on the internet, 101".

 

[OrthoPT]

first of all, you didn't specify reliable handling. I thought you meant reliable in terms of the car starting every time, especially in the course of our discussion, which has touched on the reliability of Audis, not to mention that you add "...and handles lilke a dream in ALL conditions". What the hell?

Second, nobody uses the term "reliable" to describe handling. Maybe "confidence inspiring" or "stable". More importantly, it doesn't really matter if your car handles "reliably" (ie, the same in all conditions) so much as if it handles well. No car handles the same in snow as it does on dry pavement. Perhaps in rain with good tires, but braking distances etc. are still going to be increased, regardless of awd et al.


Thirdly, you're retarded, and you fail. Go back to "Insulting people on the internet, 101".

What are you doing up so late? Does your mom know you're using her computer?

 

[OneManArmy]

mack_ that is an oil cooler.


manhattanprjkt83_get the STI. It's newer. Warrantied. More reliable. Performance parts are more readily available and less expensive.

Basically you have to decide...do you want a blingy street car or a fast drivers car that you can do pretty much anything in? The Audi has a much better interior. It's more comfortable. Has a much better stereo stock. It's quieter. Etc.

The STI has a better steering rack. You have more control over the diffs with the DCCD. Funner to drive. Better to drive. It's just a much more fun car. My buddy put sound deadening in and a full on stereo. Thing was unreal. Now it's a stripped out track only car. Not even registered for street use.

I nearly bought an audi myself. I was on the lot and everything. They just so happened to be connected to a subaru lot and I wandered over to the subaru's. Well after test drives. Research. Etc.... I bought a subaru.

My buddy bought an A4. Nothing but trouble. He hates it.

My car...I beat the crap out of it. Snow. Dirt. Road.. It's modified. Etc. No issues.

So....I say get the STI..

 

[OneManArmy]

here's mine in action.....don't see to many S4's doing this....

 

[SkaredShtles]

Umm... Predictable, controllable, stable in "adverse conditions". Is english your first or second laguage? Do you need me to get out my dictionary and spell out what "Adverse Conditions" might mean as well?

Dude - you're using "reliable" in a strange way........

You should work on your composition skills. It's ripe with problems.

-S.S.-

 

[SkaredShtles]

here's mine in action.....don't see to many S4's doing this....

Why would you say that you don't see many S4's doing that? S4's were *made* for that.

-S.S.-

 

[SkaredShtles]

<snip>
More reliable.

Are you using reliable here to describe the STi's handling? Or its "reliable" as understood by 99.99% the English speaking world?

-S.S.-

 

[SkaredShtles]

first of all, you didn't specify reliable handling. I thought you meant reliable in terms of the car starting every time, especially in the course of our discussion, which has touched on the reliability of Audis, not to mention that you add "...and handles lilke a dream in ALL conditions". What the hell?

Second, nobody uses the term "reliable" to describe handling. Maybe "confidence inspiring" or "stable". More importantly, it doesn't really matter if your car handles "reliably" (ie, the same in all conditions) so much as if it handles well. No car handles the same in snow as it does on dry pavement. Perhaps in rain with good tires, but braking distances etc. are still going to be increased, regardless of awd et al.


Thirdly, you're retarded, and you fail. Go back to "Insulting people on the internet, 101".

-S.S.-

 

[Westy]

My bro has an S4. It seems they are very easy to steal. Someone swiped his from his driveway, went for a joyride and vandalized it. Unfortunately the car was recovered. Insurance paid for the repairs but he has had persistant engine problems ever since. My guess is that the thieves decided to never upshift and keep the thing redlined for the 220 miles they put on it.

 

[SkaredShtles]

My bro has an S4. It seems they are very easy to steal. Someone swiped his from his driveway, went for a joyride and vandalized it. Unfortunately the car was recovered. Insurance paid for the repairs but he has had persistant engine problems ever since. My guess is that the thieves decided to never upshift and keep the thing redlined for the 220 miles they put on it.

I'd heard the other day that thieves have taken to getting the VIN number off the dashboard on some cars, calling the dealer to have a key made (apparently all they need is the VIN), then stealing it the easy way.

You'd think that the dealer would ask for some proof of ownership, but apparently most don't. WTF?

Makes me glad I have a $hitty old car.

-S.S.-

 

[Westy]

I'd heard the other day that thieves have taken to getting the VIN number off the dashboard on some cars, calling the dealer to have a key made (apparently all they need is the VIN), then stealing it the easy way.

You'd think that the dealer would ask for some proof of ownership, but apparently most don't. WTF?

Makes me glad I have a $hitty old car.

-S.S.-

They thought that is what happened at first but after recovering the car it apears a screwdriver was used to pry the lock open, they have no idea how the ignition was engaged. The alarm never went off.

Of course the thieves may have just ****ed with the lock just like they sliced the seats up and smashed the car up for no reason.

 

[SkaredShtles]

They thought that is what happened at first but after recovering the car it apears a screwdriver was used to pry the lock open, they have no idea how the ignition was engaged. The alarm never went off.

Of course the thieves may have just ****ed with the lock just like they sliced the seats up and smashed the car up for no reason.

Fokkers.

I sure would like to have an RS6 someday.......

 

[Westy]

Fokkers.

I sure would like to have an RS6 someday.......

I sure would like to have the disposable income to consider an RS6 someday. Of course I wouldn't buy one but I'd save the money and retire a year early.

 

[erikkellison]

Okay, so to the original post, both AWD systems will work well. Get the DCCD that comes with the STi if you can. It is quite possible to reduce understeer on a Subaru. Usually a stiffer rear sway bar does the trick, but stiffer rear suspension, softer from, stiffer/narrower rear tires, wider/grippier tires in the front... I could go on. Trust me, you can make a Subie an oversteer machine. Don't worry about the AWD system differences too much, spend more time buying some studded Hakka's.

As far as Audi versus Subaru, I'd go with Subaru. More bang for the buck (unless you're into semi-luxury). I can't think of a good reason to get the Audi. Sure, it's a "good" car, and it looks cool, it's not worth the money (unless you're looking to get an S8, which are just awesome).
My mom was recently presented with the Audi versus Volkswagen dilemma, and after the whole family gave their two cents, she went with Volkswagen and hasn't been happier. The Audi was basically the same car for a lot more money. Sure, heated side mirrors and heated rear seats would be cool, as would HID and possibly better suspension, those upgrades aren't worth $10K+ IMO.

 

[SkaredShtles]

I sure would like to have the disposable income to consider an RS6 someday. Of course I wouldn't buy one but I'd save the money and retire a year early.

Naw - those Audis lose their value like nobody's business. Once that RS6 is 15 years old it'll be chump change.

-S.S.-

 

[OneManArmy]

Are you using reliable here to describe the STi's handling? Or its "reliable" as understood by 99.99% the English speaking world?

-S.S.-

Reliable as in not breaking down.

Audi's can be great. But they also have a habit of developing electrical system issues. Annoying other little issues.

And yeah..they say they are "built" to do that...snow driving..etc. But how many do you actually see doing it? And how many do you see that are still as reliable as the day they bought it after doing it quite regularly?

I love audi's. I love S4's. The S3 is one of my all time favorite cars. Wanted one for a long time but the bastards haven't been available in the states. I even got on the list for the R32's because it's the closest thing to a an A3 we get. My girlfriend drives a golf. I have tons of buddies in the Audi/Vw world.

I'd still take the sti or my wrx wagon. Shoot I'd take an STI wagon if they made one available.

Mine has completely new suspension. New exhaust. New stereo equipment...etc. I took it to the dealership and my warranty is still intact. I talked to them about track time. They said it would still be under warranty as long as it didn't show outride abuse..or a wreck..haa.

Don't see that kind of thing with Audi or Mitsu.

I like that I can get in my car every day. Start it. Mash on it. Change the oil. Fill it with gas. And it works. No silly electrical problems. No pieces falling apart after 30k miles.

I've got 46k on an 04 so far and it's been good for me. My first brand new car. Gonna be hard to not buy subaru in the future. haa.

 

[OneManArmy]

Naw - those Audis lose their value like nobody's business. Once that RS6 is 15 years old it'll be chump change.

-S.S.-

haaaaaaaaa.


Yeah I'd love an RS6. But I don't see me making $150k a year anytime soon. haa.

And they actually hold their value pretty well. haa.

 

[SkaredShtles]

haaaaaaaaa.


Yeah I'd love an RS6. But I don't see me making $150k a year anytime soon. haa.

And they actually hold their value pretty well. haa.

The RS6 does? That'd be a first for an Audi.

You can pick up older S6s around here for pretty reasonable...... of course, they usually have 120K miles on 'em.

I'd still rather have a Porsche 911, I guess.

-S.S.-

 

[SkaredShtles]

haaaaaaaaa.


Yeah I'd love an RS6. But I don't see me making $150k a year anytime soon. haa.

And they actually hold their value pretty well. haa.

Oh, and what's with all the "haa" business? What is that?

-S.S.-

 

[SkaredShtles]

<snip>
And yeah..they say they are "built" to do that...snow driving..etc. But how many do you actually see doing it?

Pretty much all Audis out here do it........ snow driving, that is. I'm not really sure how many of those drivers actually have a little "fun" with their Audi in the snow, though.

I know I always did. Mine was more fun in the snow than either of my Subarus.

-S.S.-

 

[OneManArmy]

Pretty much all Audis out here do it........ snow driving, that is. I'm not really sure how many of those drivers actually have a little "fun" with their Audi in the snow, though.

I know I always did. Mine was more fun in the snow than either of my Subarus.

-S.S.-

where either one of your subaru's anywhere near the hp as your audi?

I've driven a couple in the snow and I like them. But I never felt like I could do whatever I wanted. With my WRX I feel like that..even when I had the insanely crappy stock Re92's on. I can put it side ways and drive for days. Put it into a donut and come out exactly where I want.

I also like the fact that I don't have to worry about leather interior and messing up all the luxury offered by the audi. That was part of what swayed me. That and I couldn't afford an S4 avant.

I love audi's don't get me wrong. They are incredible cars and very capable. I'm just saying...why buy a used audi when you can get a new STI?

But yeah..if you want a quit, luxury, car buy the audi.

Oh..and for resale..resale value on cars in general sucks but I don't think most audi's do any worse than average. You still have to pay anywhere from $17-20k for a 2001 A4....that's about 60% retail. not toooo bad. And cars like the S4's and RS6's are more rare and more desireable so they hold even better......most sell for more than what sites like kbb.com say they should go for...least around here anyways.


That was part of my deal. Shell out $35k for a new audi. $20k for one that's 4 years old and has 60k plus on it. Or buy a car that's funner to drive, easier to modify and brand new for $25k? And just loose things like leather and flash. I still get plenty of looks in my wagon.

 

[SkaredShtles]

where either one of your subaru's anywhere near the hp as your audi?

Yup - the '95 legacy had less, but the '97 Outback has more than my 4000S had. Fun in the snow never had much to do with the power, for me.

I've driven a couple in the snow and I like them. But I never felt like I could do whatever I wanted. With my WRX I feel like that..even when I had the insanely crappy stock Re92's on. I can put it side ways and drive for days. Put it into a donut and come out exactly where I want.

This is how the old 4000S was. It was wonderfully "predictable" in low traction situations. The Subarus just never were quite as predictable.

I also like the fact that I don't have to worry about leather interior and messing up all the luxury offered by the audi.

Well, mine had cloth seats. There was very little "luxury" involved. It was just a really fun snow car. It was cheap, too.

Oh..and for resale..resale value on cars in general sucks but I don't think most audi's do any worse than average. You still have to pay anywhere from $17-20k for a 2001 A4....that's about 60% retail. not toooo bad.

Hehehehe. I'm talking take a look when they're 10 years old and have 125K miles on them. Sadly, I'm much too practical to buy a performance vehicle........

-S.S.-