[JohnE]

I have two decent DIY audio projects under my belt. The process of designing, building, and optimizing via measurement is something that I get a great deal of satisfaction out of. The fact that at the "end" of the project end up with a pretty decent system to listen to music on is icing on the cake.

I started out with a set of tower speakers using drivers/crossovers found on Madisound.com (Zaph Audio ZRT 2-way Kit):
View attachment 155180View attachment 155183View attachment 155184

I learned (i.e. adapted to some poor decision making in the design phase) a great bit during this project, as chronicled in my build log below. I am excited to take on a more impressive build in the near future and even have an old JL Audio 13W7 laying around that I was going to repurpose into home audio subwoofer.

Build Log: https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/262660-custom-zaph-audio-zrt-2-build.html

The next DIY project was upgrading the rather anemic stock system in my 2017 Compass. This project ended up being a major investment (I have hundreds of hours into this thing lol) in time but the results are worth the effort. Nearly everything is custom for the build and I did 100% of the fabrication (I even made my own RCA cables and SPDIF to Coax signal cables).

Again, here I learned quit a bit as achieving audio nirvana in a vehicle is no trivial task. This was my first "Active" system period and jumping right in with a 3-way front stage using DSP instead of passive crossovers was a pretty big jump from my previous audio endeavors. I would love to pay a professional to tune the system to see what it is capable of, but even with my naivety I have been able to produce some "tunes" that are very impressive in terms of staging/imaging and frequency response. This setup rocks!

View attachment 155185View attachment 155186

View attachment 155188View attachment 155189

Build Log: https://www.diymobileaudio.com/threads/2017-compass-build-jl-c7-3-way-fix-86-twk-88-hd-amps.415709/

There are so many area's in audio to geek out on and to have fun with experimentation; for me it is a pretty great avenue to blow off some creative energy while making something that can be enjoyed for years to come!

Looks flexy...does it come in root beer?

 

[SkaredShtles]

Seriously, I f@cking hate you guys. You are all way too f@cking smart to be such reprobates. Imagine if you had used your powers for good and sh!t???

That being said...someone please provide me a brief tutorial on how to get the coolest sound possible..loud and without having to part with a kidney.

I listen to old punk, classic rock and a lot of celtic folk/punk/acoustic shit. And yeah, I love bagpipes and banjoes. F@ck off, okay?

I have had Bose 301s, 701s and some cool Advent Infinities...beautiful speakers, rosewood cabinets, great sound but I was too young and dumb to understand how things work. Not like I am any smarter now, but I want cool sound and to sound smart. Right now I have nothing. so I can start from there. Although I do like my Bose shits on the nerd box.

BTW, I still hate you f@ckers. Most of you. Smart mother f@ckers...sigh...

I see you may be deep in the Jagermeister??

 

[JohnE]

I see you may be deep in the Jagermeister??

I have a buddy who makes schnapps ...what was your point? Jager? Please...

Now, about the sound...

 

[SkaredShtles]

I have a buddy who makes schnapps ...what was your point? Jager? Please...

Now, about the sound...

Just get the red ones.

 

[JohnE]

More importantly, to me at least, has vinyl tech improved since, say, 1978, with all of the advancements in recording technology? Is it better to listen to new vinyl vs. old stuff? Can my daughter rock the Fraus old Queen and ELO albums as effectively on her Xmas record turntable as she could a newer pressing?

 

[HardtailHack]

I have no idea about vinyl, never really got the appeal.

But the little 4ch amp I have was designed to get people to bring their old speakers back to life, it is a Colab between B&O and HiFiBerry. It is a 4ch amp that can be used without the Raspberry Pi but you have to set up the EQ initially with a Pi and if you want BT, Wireless connectivity you need to need to keep the Pi board on the amp board.
My base settings for a bookshelf speaker.

Pretty rad idea to cut down on waste, especially if it reducd the number of people making Insta/Flickr inspired stupid suitcase and ammo box speakers

 

[Shizzon]

Looks flexy...does it come in root beer?

The sub enclosure is very ridged. The sun roof and mirrors do exhibit a fair amount of flex when the volume is cranked. For two tens on 1200W the output is impressive, especially down low:

 

[Shizzon]

That being said...someone please provide me a brief tutorial on how to get the coolest sound possible..loud and without having to part with a kidney.

I listen to old punk, classic rock and a lot of celtic folk/punk/acoustic shit. And yeah, I love bagpipes and banjoes. F@ck off, okay?

Do you enjoy fabrication and have some time to invest? If so going the DIY route is going to give you the best bang for your buck to achieve your desired sound (whatever that may be). You can build speakers with exceptional drivers for a fraction of the cost of most name brand speaker manufacturers.

For example:

Zaph|Audio SR71 Kit - Pair - Parts Only

Zaph|Audio SR71 Kit - Pair - Parts OnlyPrice shown is for a PAIR The ZA-SR71 is designed for Madisound by John Krutke of Zaph Audio. John is a true asset to the DIY speaker building community, and we are very pleased to offer you an easy to build kit based on his expertise. Detailed information...

www.madisoundspeakerstore.com

Details from the designer: http://www.zaphaudio.com/SR71.html

I'm not saying that the above speaker would be ideal for your listening preferences, but there are kits available to meet most needs.

below is a quote from the designer; Zaph Audio is/was very highly regarded in the DIY community.

"Here we have a smooth, clean system that is relatively easy to construct. With the prefab cabinets, a finished system is only few hours worth of assembly. (or a few days, if you obsess over the details like I do) A speaker with this level of performance could likely go for upwards of a couple thousand dollars in the retail market. Consider a DIY speaker system if you want a high end speaker without paying for a company's marketing and overhead expenses. If you're handy with woodworking, you can save even more. "

 

[Westy]

I have two decent DIY audio projects under my belt. The process of designing, building, and optimizing via measurement is something that I get a great deal of satisfaction out of. The fact that at the "end" of the project end up with a pretty decent system to listen to music on is icing on the cake.

I started out with a set of tower speakers using drivers/crossovers found on Madisound.com (Zaph Audio ZRT 2-way Kit):
View attachment 155180View attachment 155183View attachment 155184

I learned (i.e. adapted to some poor decision making in the design phase) a great bit during this project, as chronicled in my build log below. I am excited to take on a more impressive build in the near future and even have an old JL Audio 13W7 laying around that I was going to repurpose into home audio subwoofer.

Build Log: https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/262660-custom-zaph-audio-zrt-2-build.html

The next DIY project was upgrading the rather anemic stock system in my 2017 Compass. This project ended up being a major investment (I have hundreds of hours into this thing lol) in time but the results are worth the effort. Nearly everything is custom for the build and I did 100% of the fabrication (I even made my own RCA cables and SPDIF to Coax signal cables).

Again, here I learned quit a bit as achieving audio nirvana in a vehicle is no trivial task. This was my first "Active" system period and jumping right in with a 3-way front stage using DSP instead of passive crossovers was a pretty big jump from my previous audio endeavors. I would love to pay a professional to tune the system to see what it is capable of, but even with my naivety I have been able to produce some "tunes" that are very impressive in terms of staging/imaging and frequency response. This setup rocks!

View attachment 155185View attachment 155186

View attachment 155188View attachment 155189

Build Log: https://www.diymobileaudio.com/threads/2017-compass-build-jl-c7-3-way-fix-86-twk-88-hd-amps.415709/

There are so many area's in audio to geek out on and to have fun with experimentation; for me it is a pretty great avenue to blow off some creative energy while making something that can be enjoyed for years to come!

Finally got to read your DIY thread, can't see the images on that site, would be interested in seeing your frequency response.

I considered the DIY route but I kind of knew I would go down a rabbit hole with expensive microphones and analysis software. I still kind of want to try to make a shit system work well by applying some recursive machine learning algorithms to measure the equipment/room response and pre-process digital files to get the desired output using Matlab. Theoretically I could account for both phase and frequency response issues.

 

[CrabJoe StretchPants]

That being said...someone please provide me a brief tutorial on how to get the coolest sound possible..loud and without having to part with a kidney.

Not vinyl

 

[Westy]

More importantly, to me at least, has vinyl tech improved since, say, 1978, with all of the advancements in recording technology? Is it better to listen to new vinyl vs. old stuff? Can my daughter rock the Fraus old Queen and ELO albums as effectively on her Xmas record turntable as she could a newer pressing?

No. I would argue that a lot of music today is recorded with a low price point in mind and mixed for people to listen to highly compressed MP3s from ear buds.

Can I tell the difference between listening to an original LP of Dark Side of The Moon and a CD of the same? Probably not, but it is more of the experience of having to sit down and listen to a whole album.

 

[rideit]

And, IIRC, flipping the record made you get up off the couch, which of course was perfect timing for another bong rip.

 

[Shizzon]

Finally got to read your DIY thread, can't see the images on that site, would be interested in seeing your frequency response.

I considered the DIY route but I kind of knew I would go down a rabbit hole with expensive microphones and analysis software. I still kind of want to try to make a shit system work well by applying some recursive machine learning algorithms to measure the equipment/room response and pre-process digital files to get the desired output using Matlab. Theoretically I could account for both phase and frequency response issues.

DIY home frequency response:

Most of the variation in the midbass-midrange is due to my front facing port and the resulting floor bounce affects:

Notice that the green line (20" distance from speaker, centered between drivers) is pretty darn flat; at listening distances, however, the floor bounce ends up causing the weird cancellations/reinforcements that are noticed in the first plot. Hear I have also attempted to assess the individual contributions of the woofer, port, and tweeter, though since everything is running through a passive X-over the other drivers are still playing and contaminating the measurement.

Jeep Compass frequency response (I have improved upon this but don't have screen shots):

Front Stage:

Front Stage with Subs:

With DSP I can basically tune to any curve I want. I have experimented with a few curves and have landed on one that I like but am still far from an expert. Frequency/volume matching each driver, refining time alignment, and working on X-over points all allow for huge improvement in sound over typical car audio. It's really quite challenging and fun to try to extract quality audio out of what is a terrible acoustic environment .

FYI, the microphone I used retails for something like $75 and the software is free:

REW room acoustics and audio device measurement and analysis software

REW is free software for room acoustic measurement, loudspeaker measurement and audio device measurement and analysis

www.roomeqwizard.com

Also, I used another free program called WinISD for subwoofer enclosure design:

WinISD

An overview of WinISD, the free Windows based software for designing speakers and subwoofers

www.subwoofer-builder.com

 

[Westy]

DIY home frequency response: View attachment 155582

Most of the variation in the midbass-midrange is due to my front facing port and the resulting floor bounce affects:

View attachment 155583
Notice that the green line (20" distance from speaker, centered between drivers) is pretty darn flat; at listening distances, however, the floor bounce ends up causing the weird cancellations/reinforcements that are noticed in the first plot. Hear I have also attempted to assess the individual contributions of the woofer, port, and tweeter, though since everything is running through a passive X-over the other drivers are still playing and contaminating the measurement.

Jeep Compass frequency response (I have improved upon this but don't have screen shots):

Front Stage:

View attachment 155584


Front Stage with Subs:

View attachment 155585



With DSP I can basically tune to any curve I want. I have experimented with a few curves and have landed on one that I like but am still far from an expert. Frequency/volume matching each driver, refining time alignment, and working on X-over points all allow for huge improvement in sound over typical car audio. It's really quite challenging and fun to try to extract quality audio out of what is a terrible acoustic environment .

FYI, the microphone I used retails for something like $75 and the software is free:

REW room acoustics and audio device measurement and analysis software

REW is free software for room acoustic measurement, loudspeaker measurement and audio device measurement and analysis

www.roomeqwizard.com

Also, I used another free program called WinISD for subwoofer enclosure design:

WinISD

An overview of WinISD, the free Windows based software for designing speakers and subwoofers

www.subwoofer-builder.com

When I was in high school I bought a book on speaker design from Radio Shack. Wanted to make some speakers from some fancy drivers I found in a pawn shop. I didn't understand the math and just winged it. God did those sound horrible. I feel like I should be able to derive all the required math on my own now, but too lazy.

I used to work for a company that made lab equipment for NV&H testing. Wish I had access to the anechoic chamber and all the equipment.

 

[HardtailHack]

DIY home frequency response: View attachment 155582

Most of the variation in the midbass-midrange is due to my front facing port and the resulting floor bounce affects:

View attachment 155583
Notice that the green line (20" distance from speaker, centered between drivers) is pretty darn flat; at listening distances, however, the floor bounce ends up causing the weird cancellations/reinforcements that are noticed in the first plot. Hear I have also attempted to assess the individual contributions of the woofer, port, and tweeter, though since everything is running through a passive X-over the other drivers are still playing and contaminating the measurement.

Jeep Compass frequency response (I have improved upon this but don't have screen shots):

Front Stage:

View attachment 155584


Front Stage with Subs:

View attachment 155585



With DSP I can basically tune to any curve I want. I have experimented with a few curves and have landed on one that I like but am still far from an expert. Frequency/volume matching each driver, refining time alignment, and working on X-over points all allow for huge improvement in sound over typical car audio. It's really quite challenging and fun to try to extract quality audio out of what is a terrible acoustic environment .

FYI, the microphone I used retails for something like $75 and the software is free:

REW room acoustics and audio device measurement and analysis software

REW is free software for room acoustic measurement, loudspeaker measurement and audio device measurement and analysis

www.roomeqwizard.com

Also, I used another free program called WinISD for subwoofer enclosure design:

WinISD

An overview of WinISD, the free Windows based software for designing speakers and subwoofers

www.subwoofer-builder.com

I just got the Dayton Omnimic, pretty keen to try it out but I know little about any of that stuff so there will be a bit of learning.
In the past I just push the button in the car and hold the mic up and it did its thing automatically then I'd just adjust the high pass filters a bit.

 

[JohnE]

2 more ??s for you 10 lb. brain guys.

1. What is more important, the hardware putting the sound into the speakers, or the speakers???

B) Do you tailor the sound to the room or the room to the sound? Do furnishings factor into system design?

 

[HardtailHack]

Smart people have metric weight brains.

In my opinion, good drivers in a well designed enclosure over amps, as long as you have enough power you won't notice a massive difference.

If I lived somewhere with no carpet, a leather lounge and hard curtains/blinds I'd just buy a soundbar and be done with it.
Carpet and fabric curtains FTW!

Speaker Placement: 10 Things To Consider Beyond Spousal Approval

In a perfect world, my listening room would consist of a 2-channel monoblock system driving a pair of Blades, a $9000 turntable, an endless library of 192kHz/24-bit FLAC files, a chair with a cupholder, and proper acoustic treatments all around. I would lock the door from the inside and emerge...

us.kef.com

 

[mykel]

2 more ??s for you 10 lb. brain guys.

1. What is more important, the hardware putting the sound into the speakers, or the speakers???

B) Do you tailor the sound to the room or the room to the sound? Do furnishings factor into system design?

GIGO

Garbage in, Garbage out.
Source first.
That means the best available recording regardless of media played on a competent device.
Speakers can not make up for what is not there.


Yes, but depending upon how deep into the rabbit hole you want to go...
Shape of room, ceiling height, solid walls vs cavity, above grade, vs basement, amount and placement of widows, hard surface floors with throw-rigs vs carpet and carpet style and material and amount and type of underlay, weight, size and type of fabric for drapes, position of listening chair in room, amount and type of furniture between you and the speakers, amount and type of furniture in the room total, placement of pictures on the walls, a rug hung on the wall behind the speakers, bass traps, corner baffles, broken surface walls or ceiling, etc etc etc, and whatever you do, don't forget about what the equipment is sitting on, it does make a difference. Now which way did that fucking rabbit go?

 

[Brian HCM#1]

GIGO

Garbage in, Garbage out.
Source first.
That means the best available recording regardless of media played on a competent device.
Speakers can not make up for what is not there.


Yes, but depending upon how deep into the rabbit hole you want to go...
Shape of room, ceiling height, solid walls vs cavity, above grade, vs basement, amount and placement of widows, hard surface floors with throw-rigs vs carpet and carpet style and material and amount and type of underlay, weight, size and type of fabric for drapes, position of listening chair in room, amount and type of furniture between you and the speakers, amount and type of furniture in the room total, placement of pictures on the walls, a rug hung on the wall behind the speakers, bass traps, corner baffles, broken surface walls or ceiling, etc etc etc, and whatever you do, don't forget about what the equipment is sitting on, it does make a difference. Now which way did that fucking rabbit go?

Partially true. Yes speaker placement in a room as will as furnishings, windows etc. can play a big part in sound. However, I'm a firm believer when focusing on speakers first. You can take a set of great speakers and a low to midrange amp and it will sound pretty decent. You can take a high end tube amps like a pair of Ayon Audio Titan mono amps with lower end speakers and it will still sound like a set of lower end speakers.

 

[JohnE]

End goal being to have your playback sound as close to live,sitting front row with the band in the room...correct?

 

[CrabJoe StretchPants]

End goal being to have your playback sound as close to live,sitting front row with the band in the room...correct?

God I hope not...


Not an audio expert or sound enginerd by any stretch, but I imagine the sound closest to the soundboard where it's being mixed live is what you'd want to replicate.

 

[rideit]

Absolutely. 25-30th row, center.
I was a taper, I taped about 120 different shows.
Sony D5 with Nakamichi shotguns or Schoeps for more ‘controlled’ environments.
Or in front of the soundboard.

 

[mykel]

Partially true. Yes speaker placement in a room as will as furnishings, windows etc. can play a big part in sound. However, I'm a firm believer when focusing on speakers first. You can take a set of great speakers and a low to midrange amp and it will sound pretty decent. You can take a high end tube amps like a pair of Ayon Audio Titan mono amps with lower end speakers and it will still sound like a set of lower end speakers.

I do believe I said SOURCE!! -- Not speakers or amps!!

Yes, speakers or amps are important, but if your source material is a crappy 3rd generation tape, played through a LLoyds cassette deck, it does not matter how great your speakers or amps are or how well your room is designed or post processed, it WILL sound like crap, possibly highly polished crap, but crap non the less.

Same holds true with a very high resolution source device. If you play a crap recording on a great front end, you will end up with a sound showing everything wrong with the source material, cause now you are "looking" at it through a high-powered microscope, so everything is laid bare.

The same with amps and speakers, each will only magnify what it is fed up-chain.

It is all about balance.

If I had great source material, I would get the best front end I could, with moderate speakers and amps.(to start) This will sound better than great amps and speakers fed with crap source material.

Same hold true with room and post. If the room is decent to start with and you can use simple furnishing choices, then you will have less post (if you go that way or you can keep it total Flat Earth) to deal with. This makes it easier on your speaker drivers. Post can only do so much with room nodes - physics will always win.

 

[Westy]

2 more ??s for you 10 lb. brain guys.

1. What is more important, the hardware putting the sound into the speakers, or the speakers???

B) Do you tailor the sound to the room or the room to the sound? Do furnishings factor into system design?

IMO you want to do your best to make everything work well together. The room is important, ideally a non square symmetrical room with soft furnishings around the walls to absorb sound instead of reflecting it. If your listening room is a low ceiling basement with concrete floors and uninterrupted cinder block walls, you will struggle to do anything much more than be loud. Assuming you have a normal room, with rugs and soft furniture the most important thing is the size, a big room will work better with a bigger system. Also important is how loud you like to listen, you will want a larger more capable system if you like to make your ears bleed and the bass to punch you in the chest.

Beyond that you want a decent source. If your source is a i-pod nano playing through the headphone jack a good system will just show you that you have a garbage source. If you aren't into records I would assume you will be using a digital source. A good basic component level CD player will probably be just fine unless you are looking for that last .5% of detail. For electronic media you are going to lose some detail and add noise with highly compressed MP3, a loss free format is your friend. There are a variety of hardware based media servers and services that can provide this. I saved all of my old CDs into a loss free format and use Tidal's Hi Fi streaming service which provides hi fidelity digital sources. I don't think you have to spend a lot of money here for your source if you chose wisely.

I posted and article earlier in this thread about streaming over bluetooth, you will lose detail and gain noise streaming wirelessly. With clean source material I can tell the difference, but it is not a huge difference. I am happy to to stream while doing shit around the house but not when I am sitting down and listening to music.

For an amp and speakers I think you just want something that will work well together, but start with the speakers. If you have room I think larger floor standing speakers will always work better than smaller speakers or satellite systems. A large full spectrum setup is also easier to setup and optimize than a set of bookshelfs with a sub. You may need a sub if you can't find speakers that can get low, and your room will have a lot of influence here. I used to need a giant sub in my old house not so much now. So see where you can fit speakers in your setup and how much room you have for them. You also want to consider if you just want a stereo system for music or want a theater like surround setup for movies, I personally don't care about movies.

There are a few things to take into consideration when matching speakers and an amplifier. Tubes are super expensive I will disregard here. A speaker will have a sensitivity rating in dB/watt, max power and maximum loudness.

The maximum loudness of a speaker isn't all that important but you probably want to have an understanding of how loud you like music, although not very accurate but probably good enough, my cell phone SPL meter tells me I don't like going above 75 dB which is pretty low level for some people. My speakers are rated at 115dB max, so I never really push them that hard, which is good and a theme that will repeat. The harder you push a component the less linear it becomes and the more distortion it will produce. If you like music at 95 dB and a speaker has a maximum value of 100 dB you are probably pushing it too hard to sound good.

A speaker will also have a sensitivity rating, which in dB/watt which tells you how loud it is at 1 watt at 1 meter. This is a little deceptive as it is measure with white noise, real music at a certain loudness will require much higher peaks for things like deep bass. Anyway a speaker with a high sensitivity rating doesn't need a very powerful amplifer. I would consider 100dB to be pretty sensitive. A lot of high fidelity speakers can have low sensitivity, an 85dB/W/m speaker will require 5 times as much power to produce the same level of sound as a 100db/W/m speaker. So your amplifiers power requirements will depend on how loud you want the music and how sensitive your speakers are.

Tube amps typically have very low power ratings but perform pretty well at max power. Solid state amplifiers do not, they generate more distortion the harder you push them and the hotter they get, so you really want to have plenty of overhead with your speakers at the levels you want to listen to them.

There are scientific ways of measuring the fidelity of a system, but at the end of the day how you hear the music is completely subjective, so don't sweat the specs if you like the sound.

 

[Brian HCM#1]

IMO you want to do your best to make everything work well together. The room is important, ideally a non square symmetrical room with soft furnishings around the walls to absorb sound instead of reflecting it. If your listening room is a low ceiling basement with concrete floors and uninterrupted cinder block walls, you will struggle to do anything much more than be loud. Assuming you have a normal room, with rugs and soft furniture the most important thing is the size, a big room will work better with a bigger system. Also important is how loud you like to listen, you will want a larger more capable system if you like to make your ears bleed and the bass to punch you in the chest.

Beyond that you want a decent source. If your source is a i-pod nano playing through the headphone jack a good system will just show you that you have a garbage source. If you aren't into records I would assume you will be using a digital source. A good basic component level CD player will probably be just fine unless you are looking for that last .5% of detail. For electronic media you are going to lose some detail and add noise with highly compressed MP3, a loss free format is your friend. There are a variety of hardware based media servers and services that can provide this. I saved all of my old CDs into a loss free format and use Tidal's Hi Fi streaming service which provides hi fidelity digital sources. I don't think you have to spend a lot of money here for your source if you chose wisely.

I posted and article earlier in this thread about streaming over bluetooth, you will lose detail and gain noise streaming wirelessly. With clean source material I can tell the difference, but it is not a huge difference. I am happy to to stream while doing shit around the house but not when I am sitting down and listening to music.

For an amp and speakers I think you just want something that will work well together, but start with the speakers. If you have room I think larger floor standing speakers will always work better than smaller speakers or satellite systems. A large full spectrum setup is also easier to setup and optimize than a set of bookshelfs with a sub. You may need a sub if you can't find speakers that can get low, and your room will have a lot of influence here. I used to need a giant sub in my old house not so much now. So see where you can fit speakers in your setup and how much room you have for them. You also want to consider if you just want a stereo system for music or want a theater like surround setup for movies, I personally don't care about movies.

There are a few things to take into consideration when matching speakers and an amplifier. Tubes are super expensive I will disregard here. A speaker will have a sensitivity rating in dB/watt, max power and maximum loudness.

The maximum loudness of a speaker isn't all that important but you probably want to have an understanding of how loud you like music, although not very accurate but probably good enough, my cell phone SPL meter tells me I don't like going above 75 dB which is pretty low level for some people. My speakers are rated at 115dB max, so I never really push them that hard, which is good and a theme that will repeat. The harder you push a component the less linear it becomes and the more distortion it will produce. If you like music at 95 dB and a speaker has a maximum value of 100 dB you are probably pushing it too hard to sound good.

A speaker will also have a sensitivity rating, which in dB/watt which tells you how loud it is at 1 watt at 1 meter. This is a little deceptive as it is measure with white noise, real music at a certain loudness will require much higher peaks for things like deep bass. Anyway a speaker with a high sensitivity rating doesn't need a very powerful amplifer. I would consider 100dB to be pretty sensitive. A lot of high fidelity speakers can have low sensitivity, an 85dB/W/m speaker will require 5 times as much power to produce the same level of sound as a 100db/W/m speaker. So your amplifiers power requirements will depend on how loud you want the music and how sensitive your speakers are.

Tube amps typically have very low power ratings but perform pretty well at max power. Solid state amplifiers do not, they generate more distortion the harder you push them and the hotter they get, so you really want to have plenty of overhead with your speakers at the levels you want to listen to them.

There are scientific ways of measuring the fidelity of a system, but at the end of the day how you hear the music is completely subjective, so don't sweat the specs if you like the sound.

A db rating for speakers has more to do with efficiency than sound. The higher the db rating means you'll be able to drive them more efficiently with a lesser powered amp.

 

[Brian HCM#1]

I do believe I said SOURCE!! -- Not speakers or amps!!

Yes, speakers or amps are important, but if your source material is a crappy 3rd generation tape, played through a LLoyds cassette deck, it does not matter how great your speakers or amps are or how well your room is designed or post processed, it WILL sound like crap, possibly highly polished crap, but crap non the less.

Same holds true with a very high resolution source device. If you play a crap recording on a great front end, you will end up with a sound showing everything wrong with the source material, cause now you are "looking" at it through a high-powered microscope, so everything is laid bare.

The same with amps and speakers, each will only magnify what it is fed up-chain.

It is all about balance.

If I had great source material, I would get the best front end I could, with moderate speakers and amps.(to start) This will sound better than great amps and speakers fed with crap source material.

Same hold true with room and post. If the room is decent to start with and you can use simple furnishing choices, then you will have less post (if you go that way or you can keep it total Flat Earth) to deal with. This makes it easier on your speaker drivers. Post can only do so much with room nodes - physics will always win.

Agreed. I remember when CD's were first coming out and looking for the recording source printed on the CD. I remember always searching for Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab CD's and still have a few sitting around. There wasn't a whole lot of selection, but they did sound better than a standard CD. Especially Dark Side of the Moon. Dire Straits- Brothers in arms was a good one.

 

[rideit]

From what I recall, the Columbia House CD's were of a lesser quality.
God it was fun to make up names and join a few times.

 

[buckoW]

Absolutely. 25-30th row, center.
I was a taper, I taped about 120 different shows.
Sony D5 with Nakamichi shotguns or Schoeps for more ‘controlled’ environments.
Or in front of the soundboard.

 

[rideit]

Are we related?

 

[buckoW]

Are we related?

I keep wondering the same thing. That’s not my picture though, btw. Do you know Jack Shaw who used to live in Jackson/Wilson? I used to stay at his place between shows.

 

[rideit]

Not ringing a bell. But I was a Teton Valley dude for 13 years before we moved over to the dark side.

 

[jdcamb]

Development of the PZM-11 and PCC-170SW microphones.

Not ringing a bell. But I was a Teton Valley dude for 13 years before we moved over to the dark side.

 

[JohnE]

This stupid thread made me go listen to "Brothers In Arms" again just to see if I can pick up on some of the fancy stuff you guys have referenced...

 

[Westy]

This stupid thread made me go listen to "Brothers In Arms" again just to see if I can pick up on some of the fancy stuff you guys have referenced...

Try moving your speakers around and toeing them in. Check the link HardtailHack posted. When you get it right it stops sounding like music is coming from two speakers but a from a point in space between the two. Assuming a decent mix from the material. Some songs are mixed with an instrument playing exclusively from one speaker which kind of kills the effect.

 

[JohnE]

Remember when the guy who had the closet full of Dead bootlegs was THE guy???

I do. Sigh...

 

[Brian HCM#1]

Try moving your speakers around and toeing them in. Check the link HardtailHack posted. When you get it right it stops sounding like music is coming from two speakers but a from a point in space between the two. Assuming a decent mix from the material. Some songs are mixed with an instrument playing exclusively from one speaker which kind of kills the effect.

Yep, Best thing to do is grab your spouse/friend or two, sit in the middle of the listening environment, find the cleanest, most detailed music source. Close your eyes when listening while asking them to toe in/out the speakers until you can no longer hear a side, just centered.

 

[Jozz]

Yep, Best thing to do is grab your spouse/friend or two, sit in the middle of the listening environment, find the cleanest, most detailed music source. Close your eyes when listening while asking them to toe in/out the speakers until you can no longer hear a side, just centered.

In my audiophile days I was using Dark Side of the Moon for reference.

 

[rideit]

One of my favorites from a production/‘soundstage’ perspective was Dead Can Dance. I forget which album, but it had a track that went down to a theoretical 0 HZ tone. (But had higher tones as well) Absurd in my vehicle at 130db.

 

[Westy]

One of my favorites from a production/‘soundstage’ perspective was Dead Can Dance. I forget which album, but it had a track that went down to a theoretical 0 HZ tone. (But had higher tones as well) Absurd in my vehicle at 130db.

No such thing as a 0 Hz "tone". You can create a 0Hz signal by connecting a speaker up to battery.

 

[Jozz]

Absurd in my vehicle at 130db.

I had one of those too. Alpine-Phoenix Gold and Boston Acoustics. Made the mistake of shaving my head once. Couldn't crank it up for a while.

edit: seems Boston Acoustic no longer make car audio speakers.