[HardtailHack]

Wouldn't the difference between the cSt at 40deg C and 100deg C be more important than the VI rating for a push bike? Could a DH damper actually get it's fluid up to 100deg C, also would a cartridge damper run hotter as the oil isn't in contact with the outer leg?

EDIT- So Motorex doesn't show up that great the linked chart but I don't really know how the specs work, the Spectro 85/150 has a tested cSt @40degC of 16.90 and 3.82 at 100degC, does that mean it is four times more viscous at 40deg compared to when it's at 100degC?

Double Edit Just worked out you can highlight words then hit control B and it makes them all bold.

 

[HardtailHack]

Ended up ordering some Redline Extra lite oil, specs seem good, price IS bad! I use their Water Wetter and gearbox oil in my car and both seem fine so the fork oil should hopefully be as good.

 

[captainspauldin]

Any idea when the 40 kit is going to available? I have a buddy who's contemplating getting a '11 40 or doing the ava catridge..

 

[norbar]

Ok so Im fairly happy with my Avalanche but I think it often ends up to low in its travel. The sag is right at 25%. I know I can add some LSC but Im thinking if some reshimming for a bit more HSC would help. Rebound is in the stock dh setting for my weight.

 

[LOOnatic]

Ok so Im fairly happy with my Avalanche but I think it often ends up to low in its travel. The sag is right at 25%. I know I can add some LSC but Im thinking if some reshimming for a bit more HSC would help. Rebound is in the stock dh setting for my weight.
?

Did you have Craig do the optional mid-valve when you ordered your cart?

 

[Sandwich]

Moar valves

 

[norbar]

Yup. I have the mid valve and it works fine. No dive or bob when I pedal. I only think there is a bit too little HSC thanks to me not thinking ahead and giving Craig my pre winter weight before I managed to bulk up my skinny frame.

 

[Udi]

Wouldn't the difference between the cSt at 40deg C and 100deg C be more important than the VI rating for a push bike? Could a DH damper actually get it's fluid up to 100deg C, also would a cartridge damper run hotter as the oil isn't in contact with the outer leg?

So Motorex doesn't show up that great the linked chart but I don't really know how the specs work, the Spectro 85/150 has a tested cSt @40degC of 16.90 and 3.82 at 100degC, does that mean it is four times more viscous at 40deg compared to when it's at 100degC?

The VI number is calculated using the cSt@40 and cSt@100 numbers, and the cSt@40 is what is used to (accurately) compare the viscosity of fluids. So all numbers are important. Yes, a cartridge damper would run hotter, but IMO not so much because of contact (with anything) but rather due to lower fluid volumes. Not a big deal if you use an appropriate fluid.

To answer your second question, assuming stokes are a linear measurement (which I'm fairly sure it is), then yes. Maybe someone can confirm that.

With that said, I don't think these things are hugely important considerations when talking about an open bath damper, because more fluid = less temperature variation = less damping variation. It matters a whole lot more when you're talking about a shock, a sealed cartridge fork (FIT), or semi-bath fork (TPC/Moco) in that order. Mico DH runs 245ml so it's as good as open bath with respect to damping oil.

One important thing to note (if you're interested in this stuff) - that took me a long time to realise - is that the highest VI oil might not necessarily be the one that provides the lowest sliding friction, and in fact sometimes the opposite is true.

What this means in practise is - if you have a semi bath fork, don't buy an oil based purely on VI and then just go ahead and chuck it in the lowers as well (where sliding friction is a far greater concern than VI)... and if you have an open bath fork, don't go for the wank factor of the highest VI fluid when you don't need it, and remember that the same oil is used for lubrication too.

Nerdy and overkill to consider, but I found it interesting, and relevant to the boxxer which I've found to be sensitive to oil choice in lowers.

 

[HardtailHack]

Cheers Udi I didn't think I'd get a proper answer for that question but with all those flash specs I completely forgot about the lubricity of the oils, I guess if it works better as a lubricant temperature may stay slightly lower due to less friction?

Anyways it's almost a mont since I ordered the Redline oil and it still hasn't arrived, I'm pretty keen to just run one brand of oil in it and I'll leave the old damper in until my oil arrives.

 

[Limy]

Yup. I have the mid valve and it works fine. No dive or bob when I pedal. I only think there is a bit too little HSC thanks to me not thinking ahead and giving Craig my pre winter weight before I managed to bulk up my skinny frame.

I Have had my Avy cart with mid valve for just over a week now and have been thinking the same think. The fork is set up for racing and feels great but it does bottom out off big jumps / drops a little to easy for my liking. Does anyone else know re-valving to give a bit more HSC would stop this? Avy online instructions are great so should be easy to do just don't quite understand the shim configuration charts?

 

[marshalolson]

do you need the fork to be more PROGRESSIVE or more HSC?

 

[norbar]

I Have had my Avy cart with mid valve for just over a week now and have been thinking the same think. The fork is set up for racing and feels great but it does bottom out off big jumps / drops a little to easy for my liking. Does anyone else know re-valving to give a bit more HSC would stop this? Avy online instructions are great so should be easy to do just don't quite understand the shim configuration charts?

Mine doesnt bottom on jumps except for one very steep lip but im kinda a smooth jumper (and a rare one) but the Maribor WC track is a HSC crash test with rock and root gardens and I wish they were damped more. It sometimes is a bit low but I added LSC and it is better. Though my avy is in a WC body so I can add bottom out resistance.

 

[CBJ]

Could it be an issue about running a stiffer spring / more air?

 

[norbar]

Could it be an issue about running a stiffer spring / more air?

For me I dont think so. Sag is correct (around 25%)

 

[LOOnatic]

With my 2010 W/C and avy cart the bottom out feature on the spring side has alot of impact.
You guys might wanna see where yours is adjustment wise.
I'm kinda scratching my head on you guys saying it bottoms out to easy or sits too low in travel.
No offense but are you guys sure you have the correct 5w oil volume i the cart?

 

[norbar]

I may check again but Im pretty sure its fine

 

[Sandwich]

did this solve the small bump harshness that it seems some people are feeling? I'm not thrilled with the trail chatter performance of my fork (everything else is great, honestly) and I'm wondering whether it's damping or chassis.

 

[92SE-R]

In addition to using the bottom out adjust on the coil side, can't you also raise the oil height to make it more progressive? Have any of you tried that?

 

[norbar]

did this solve the small bump harshness that it seems some people are feeling? I'm not thrilled with the trail chatter performance of my fork (everything else is great, honestly) and I'm wondering whether it's damping or chassis.

The avy has none of that vs the old boxxer mico

 

[Idahoo]

Ordered my Avy Cart. today and just FYI, they are caught up on their work now. Ordered my cartridge today, and it shipped today. I'm putting this into my 2010 boxxer WC and I was wondering about one thing that hasn't really been covered. For the bottom-out resistance on the Air side, are those using it in a WC turning that all the way down or just leaving it where it was prior to the cart install?

I ask being the cart has a hydro bottom out for it from my understanding so just wondering how those with the WC have been using the airspring bottom out adjustment in relation to it? Thanks.

 

[LOOnatic]

For the bottom-out resistance on the Air side, are those using it in a WC turning that all the way down or just leaving it where it was prior to the cart install?

.

I run mine backed nearly all the way out with maybe a little extra here and there but once i tried it all the way in and i could NOT get full travel.

 

[CBJ]

I run mine backed nearly all the way out with maybe a little extra here and there but once i tried it all the way in and i could NOT get full travel.

Loo you should also mention that your really ride like a old lady

 

[LOOnatic]

Loo you should also mention that your really ride like a old lady

What can i say, Viva ls Windrock.....

 

[HardtailHack]

Finally got my oil, would anybody like pics of an install into a totem?
I'll hopefully get the damper installed tomorrow.

 

[Rhubarb]

I take any information you can give for the Totem. I am looking at the cart for mine maybe when I get back to Korea in a month. You running an air or coil setup?

 

[HardtailHack]

I take any information you can give for the Totem. I am looking at the cart for mine maybe when I get back to Korea in a month. You running an air or coil setup?

Coil.

Take one POS.

Rip it apart

Put some tunes on.

Get your drill and a 10mm bit.

Cry when you see this.

Flush some alcohol through then blow the rubbish out.

Attempt to undo undo top cap, assume it's been tightened by an Ameican toque wrench(rattlegun).

Get out the anaconda to hold the shaft to allow top nut to be undone, it was stupidly tight!

Mmmm, nice.

New snapring compared to Circlip.

Why you can't use the circlip.

Oil lockring installed with chamfer facing downwards, held in place by supplied circlip.

New seals in and redy to install cart.

Line up the damper shaft with newly drilled hole.

Tighten the cap down until it bottoms then tighten the locknut(remember to reinstall the compression adjuster rod thingy).

Grease the damper shaft nut O-Ring and tighten fit to bottom of fork, then fill the fork with oil, I used 190mL of redline 2.5wt as there are no instructions avaliable for the Totem.

Then note your forks have been machined very poorly and think- this is probably why my fork felt crap for a year.

And from the side.

So my forks are waaaaay out of whack and when cycling the fork to remove air bubbles you could hear a lovely metal on metal sound as the oil lock ring scrapes the damper, it reminded me of Kowa forks.

So I have a rubbish fork that will now trash my new damper due to side loading, effing lovely. I swore I'd never buy another RS product ten years ago, guess I'll give them another ten years.

Blackbox, nahhhhh!

Please note, this is not a tutorial the install manual has all of the small details I glossed over, I also have two spare O-rings which is a worry.

 

[Sandwich]

nice, and, ouch.

 

[LOOnatic]

The extra orings in my shipment were spares for the hydro cone where it buts up in the bottom of the lowers.

I feel your pain on the hole in the lowers being drilled cock-eyed from RS.

 

[Dogboy]

I feel your pain on the hole in the lowers being drilled cock-eyed from RS.

But wasn't the hole re-drilled/enlarged to fit the Avy cart? Who is to say it wasn't user error?

 

[LOOnatic]

But wasn't the hole re-drilled/enlarged to fit the Avy cart? Who is to say it wasn't user error?

Yeah ok thats possible but RS has a history of doing it. I know this 1st hand and not from the internet. It really sucks when you open a new fork and its so cock-eyed that you know the bushings are already on borrowed time.......

 

[HardtailHack]

But wasn't the hole re-drilled/enlarged to fit the Avy cart? Who is to say it wasn't user error?

I'm on a forum and people on forums are always right! The hole gets drilled from about 9mm to 10mm so if I was off you'd imagine the absolute max you could be off is 1mm. I predrilled with a 9mm than stepped up to the 10mm so it would be as perfect as possible, I'm not a complete numpty I am supposedly a Diesel mech by trade.

Also if I drilled the hole off centre the top cap would be off centre at full bump and fully extended, this is not the case.

Actually I should have checked to see if my Kowa cart would fit the Totem, Kowa dampers are great but everything else is crap.

 

[big-ted]

Coil.

Then note your forks have been machined very poorly and think- this is probably why my fork felt crap for a year.

And from the side.

So my forks are waaaaay out of whack and when cycling the fork to remove air bubbles you could hear a lovely metal on metal sound as the oil lock ring scrapes the damper, it reminded me of Kowa forks.

FYI, I've heard this complaint about Boxxers as well. I've heard rumours that Elka are working on some kind of ball-joint mounting for the bottom of their cartridge to account for inconsistencies in the lower castings...

 

[Sandwich]

how much are people paying for theirs all said and done? looks to be sitting at over $420, just with cart, adapters, and mid-valve kit. Is that right?

 

[Dogboy]

I'm on a forum and people on forums are always right! The hole gets drilled from about 9mm to 10mm so if I was off you'd imagine the absolute max you could be off is 1mm. I predrilled with a 9mm than stepped up to the 10mm so it would be as perfect as possible, I'm not a complete numpty I am supposedly a Diesel mech by trade.

No offense meant or implied. It just seemed that one scenerio was as likely as the other.

 

[LOOnatic]

how much are people paying for theirs all said and done? looks to be sitting at over $420, just with cart, adapters, and mid-valve kit. Is that right?

Yes thats the price for a complete kit with midvalve.

 

[HardtailHack]

No offense meant or implied. It just seemed that one scenerio was as likely as the other.

None taken, what you said was comletely valid, whenever the user has to modify something things can always go bad.

 

[Bikael Molton]

Are people finding the "softer" or "harder" oil volumes useful? How much difference do they make?

I just picked up a 2011 Boxxer RC and the Avy cart to match. I'm hoping the yellow Boxxer spring works for me; I was on the extra-soft with the 2008 Boxxer. I'm maybe 160 with gear.

 

[Idahoo]

Got out on my 2010 World Cup today with the cart installed. Everything was good to go except one thing.... I had a hard bottom-out which I heard a "clunk" on the impact, but looking at the travel ring, it only used just over 7" of travel. Any ideas....? As far as I know, everything was installed correctly being the fork worked great aside from that one impact.

Also just for the record, my top cap on my boxxer was about the same mis-alignment as the totem in this thread. RS and their lovely manufacturing....

 

[tronh]

Got out on my 2010 World Cup today with the cart installed. Everything was good to go except one thing.... I had a hard bottom-out which I heard a "clunk" on the impact, but looking at the travel ring, it only used just over 7" of travel. Any ideas....? As far as I know, everything was installed correctly being the fork worked great aside from that one impact.

Also just for the record, my top cap on my boxxer was about the same mis-alignment as the totem in this thread. RS and their lovely manufacturing....

When the casting of your lowers is bad, the whole cartridge is forced sideways when tightening the nut. If you ride it like this, I guess the oil lock ring is hitting the edge of your ABS cone at just over 7" of travel instead of engaging the cone smoothly like it´s supposed to. That´s probably the "clunk" you are hearing

My 2010 Boxxer lowers are bad too and I have two other friends with the same problem. I´m about to give up on the Boxxer/Avalanche combo and order some Marzocchi adapters to use the Avalanche cartridge with my 2008 888 RC3 WC instead.

 

[Idahoo]

When the casting of your lowers is bad, the whole cartridge is forced sideways when tightening the nut. If you ride it like this, I guess the oil lock ring is hitting the edge of your ABS cone at just over 7" of travel instead of engaging the cone smoothly like it´s supposed to. That´s probably the "clunk" you are hearing

My 2010 Boxxer lowers are bad too and I have two other friends with the same problem. I´m about to give up on the Boxxer/Avalanche combo and order some Marzocchi adapters to use the Avalanche cartridge with my 2008 888 RC3 WC instead.

So are people still riding as such and just dealing with it? If so, what type of damage is being done to the avy cart?

If damage is being done in a manner in which it will eventually break the cartridge or the lowers, i'll throw the 2010 internals back in and sell the fork...