[bullcrew]

Rad. Tomorrow F*** that, strap a torch on and get out there now

I know I was pretty excited.... well its AM and Im loading up to go ride so Ill adjust, ride and diddle with it and see where my sweet spot is.... So far though its pretty insane. Took it and was slamming curbs full speed to see if theres spiking and NONE... So Parkinglot test is good ... Wheelie test is good, manual test is good, curb test is good.... Now its time to beat on it...

 

[Bikael Molton]

no external HSC available on these?

 

[time-bomb]

I know I was pretty excited.... well its AM and Im loading up to go ride so Ill adjust, ride and diddle with it and see where my sweet spot is.... So far though its pretty insane. Took it and was slamming curbs full speed to see if theres spiking and NONE... So Parkinglot test is good ... Wheelie test is good, manual test is good, curb test is good.... Now its time to beat on it...

wow, the damping on these must be the bomb, it passed the wheelie and manual test?!?! makes me wonder how well the fork will work while you are mid-air or while it is stored in the garage

looks good, looking forward to a proper review

 

[karpi]

nice! finally a review on the new cartridge!

 

[Kanye West]

What the hell is the wheelie test for a fork

 

[monkeyfcuker]

Where the hells this review?!

 

[Kntr]

Where the hells this review?!

He is out still riding. It must be good.

 

[cableguy]

He is out still riding. It must be good.

Tearing up the trails, scaring the bejejus out of women, children and dogs, screaming at hikers to get out the way, etc.

Don't worry, he'll be back with a glowing report

 

[bullcrew]

First Impressions:
HOLY $H!T! Its too bad you guys dont have one......... Its as sick as a DHF literally but light.....

Ill have some words to do a pretty blown review of it in a couple of hours, we rode today and Im headed to the Intense trail right now to get some shots and hits the jumps and berms so Ill try and get some good pics..... Got to get there before dark but had to let it cool from 93 degrees out....

Just to throw it out there it is hands down the badest fork Ive ridden to date. Theres a item thats already been addressed and thats the impact zone adjuster knobs they are working on.... I had to bring a screw driver for the compression but the good news is its set and forget as well as it doesnt get ripped off on an impact.

So Ill post a few prod. shots and adam from MTBR.com as well as our guy mandown...

5 bikes in my 4-runner and atomicadam

Mandown taking a pic of taking a pic

Bike post ride on waqy back down

 

[bullcrew]

OK so the first thing It took it apart and looked at the machine work and went over it plus the reassembley to see how easy it really is to install and its SUPER easy.... Oil height is 245ccs 85/??? golden spectro synthetic (light anti foam and approx 3wt).
athe compression is on the bottom of the leg and the rebound is on the top and WORK GREAT....... The whole assembley is so well designed and easy to install its nice, the whole feel of the cartridge is amazing from start to finish....

I took it out today for the first ride and we had speed, loose caorners, bermed corners, rocks, ruts, tight single track with TONS of dollheads, rock outcroppings, TONS of BIG rain ruts etc.... Its fast real fast and exposed basically hammer down and go for it... Theres corners on big rocks and chunky terrain that have corners down to other chutes etc...

1: Cornering- This fork was consistant top to bottom light and loaded through the corners there were little to no chatter feel and it not once washed out due to lack of damping and control wether it was at the top or mid stroke.... It literally cornered amazing.

2: Rocks- It blew through the rocks without ANY harsh hits, it was incredible railing and was even smoother at speed the faster you went the better it got......

3: overall- The thing felt a bit slow (parking lot test) when messing around so I backed out the adjustments a little and it felt buttery at any adjustment. It does not have that light dry feel like the boxxer did and definently not like the Fox 40. It is as light as the original setup and will lighten up a bit when the production caps are done for the adapter. It did not wallow at all and the damping was consistent no matter where I was in travel so it didnt matter if I was high in it or loaded it reacted the same so my style could stay the ssame without adjusting.
I do not miss the high speed adjuster as this is should stay with the valving and be fine tuned by the low speed. I can honestly say that I have had forks with hi and lo comp and this SMOKES them by a long shot... Completely destroyed what the boxxer WC felt like in action...
I came in hot into ruts and did not get the play in the forks action like before allowing me to maintain the line as well as did load the front end into ruts on purpose (bigger ruts) to see if it slammed me and caused spiking at speed and None it literally and evenly took the hit and felt completely bottomless.
Im running 65psi and did not bottom it out, the hydraulic bottom out did its job spot on. Took the hit and slowwed the shaft speed down with no harsh hit or bad ramping...

Now the bad and this is literally the only complaint I have3 which has been addressed when I called Craig tonight he already said it before I asked...
The compression knob is hard to set without a screw driver so he is testing adjusters with a EPS foam crush zone to prevent internal damage incase of a strike so you can replace it and not the internals should a lowley rock decide to befriend it.
Also he is doing mid strok damping which will not effect the compression what it will do is keep the front end from any brake dive or load up on the ace of big jumps in nastier terrain not so much hard pack smooth cali stuff.

So all in all I was completely floored by this cartridge, I expected good but I did not expect it to feel that much better than the WC it was kind of depressing but exciting at the same time... It was way more plush than my 888 ATA ever was and the small bump on this fork will be legendary. It literally felt like a DHF but at boxxer wc weight.

Now with the air fork it performed flawless it made it consistent even when the air ramped up a smidge I did not turn the bottom out on as its not needed with the hydraulic bottom out so you can run a bit less air as well because it will take care of you.

Bottom line is this thing is literally a monster its smoother then my 888s and definently gives my boxxer wc a beat down...
It will make you faster as control and consistency is there. The Boxxer WC hi speed mod was a huge improvement over stock and I was happy but I will not be going back to stock internals.... I will be on this cartridge no matter what fork chasis I ride.


OK sorry for the dark pictures.... It was down to 80 so good for riding but gteting a bit dark.

This one I tried to triple the jump and came in a bit short.

This was just a small step down I was overshooting it on purpose to just plain beat the hell outa the fork....
BTW DID not bottom on any of the landings I nailed all of them and these were the ones that I came in hard for demo..........

 

[karpi]

OK so the first thing It took it apart and looked at the machine work and went over it plus the reassembley to see how easy it really is to install and its SUPER easy.... Oil height is 245ccs 85/??? golden spectro synthetic (light anti foam and approx 3wt).
athe compression is on the bottom of the leg and the rebound is on the top and WORK GREAT....... The whole assembley is so well designed and easy to install its nice, the whole feel of the cartridge is amazing from start to finish....

I took it out today for the first ride and we had speed, loose caorners, bermed corners, rocks, ruts, tight single track with TONS of dollheads, rock outcroppings, TONS of BIG rain ruts etc.... Its fast real fast and exposed basically hammer down and go for it... Theres corners on big rocks and chunky terrain that have corners down to other chutes etc...

1: Cornering- This fork was consistant top to bottom light and loaded through the corners there were little to no chatter feel and it not once washed out due to lack of damping and control wether it was at the top or mid stroke.... It literally cornered amazing.

2: Rocks- It blew through the rocks without ANY harsh hits, it was incredible railing and was even smoother at speed the faster you went the better it got......

3: overall- The thing felt a bit slow (parking lot test) when messing around so I backed out the adjustments a little and it felt buttery at any adjustment. It does not have that light dry feel like the boxxer did and definently not like the Fox 40. It is as light as the original setup and will lighten up a bit when the production caps are done for the adapter. It did not wallow at all and the damping was consistent no matter where I was in travel so it didnt matter if I was high in it or loaded it reacted the same so my style could stay the ssame without adjusting.
I do not miss the high speed adjuster as this is should stay with the valving and be fine tuned by the low speed. I can honestly say that I have had forks with hi and lo comp and this SMOKES them by a long shot... Completely destroyed what the boxxer WC felt like in action...
I came in hot into ruts and did not get the play in the forks action like before allowing me to maintain the line as well as did load the front end into ruts on purpose (bigger ruts) to see if it slammed me and caused spiking at speed and None it literally and evenly took the hit and felt completely bottomless.
Im running 65psi and did not bottom it out, the hydraulic bottom out did its job spot on. Took the hit and slowwed the shaft speed down with no harsh hit or bad ramping...

Now the bad and this is literally the only complaint I have3 which has been addressed when I called Craig tonight he already said it before I asked...
The compression knob is hard to set without a screw driver so he is testing adjusters with a EPS foam crush zone to prevent internal damage incase of a strike so you can replace it and not the internals should a lowley rock decide to befriend it.
Also he is doing mid strok damping which will not effect the compression what it will do is keep the front end from any brake dive or load up on the ace of big jumps in nastier terrain not so much hard pack smooth cali stuff.

So all in all I was completely floored by this cartridge, I expected good but I did not expect it to feel that much better than the WC it was kind of depressing but exciting at the same time... It was way more plush than my 888 ATA ever was and the small bump on this fork will be legendary. It literally felt like a DHF but at boxxer wc weight.

Now with the air fork it performed flawless it made it consistent even when the air ramped up a smidge I did not turn the bottom out on as its not needed with the hydraulic bottom out so you can run a bit less air as well because it will take care of you.

Bottom line is this thing is literally a monster its smoother then my 888s and definently gives my boxxer wc a beat down...
It will make you faster as control and consistency is there. The Boxxer WC hi speed mod was a huge improvement over stock and I was happy but I will not be going back to stock internals.... I will be on this cartridge no matter what fork chasis I ride.


OK sorry for the dark pictures.... It was down to 80 so good for riding but gteting a bit dark.

This one I tried to triple the jump and came in a bit short.

This was just a small step down I was overshooting it on purpose to just plain beat the hell outa the fork....
BTW DID not bottom on any of the landings I nailed all of them and these were the ones that I came in hard for demo..........

long as review, worthe it! but I guess it convinced me for it! How was brake dive before corners? Is it as buttery as the old 05 06 888? those were butter! but they would dive so much! it was crazy.

I think the most important part of your review is when you say you'd take the cartridge over the stock WC with the high speed comp. Craig say anything about interest? is he going to start selling them? He answered my email and just said there wasnt thaat much interest yet.

Last but not least. I think you could make this review a whole lot better if you had a friend try the fork and compare it to his own. That would be best.

Cheers!

 

[bullcrew]

long as review, worthe it! but I guess it convinced me for it! How was brake dive before corners? Is it as buttery as the old 05 06 888? those were butter! but they would dive so much! it was crazy.

I think the most important part of your review is when you say you'd take the cartridge over the stock WC with the high speed comp. Craig say anything about interest? is he going to start selling them? He answered my email and just said there wasnt thaat much interest yet.

Last but not least. I think you could make this review a whole lot better if you had a friend try the fork and compare it to his own. That would be best.

Cheers!

I agrea on the fork adam did take it for a spin and mandown rode it around the lot and ruts a little bit... I was too busy riding it myself today and was all in all too stingy to let alot of others ride it for too long.

If anyones ridden a DHF then I need not convince them, its that good. Its the same kit but instead of 22mm its 20mm...

Its not that wallowy buttery like the old 888s were, its butter smooth but controlled completely so it can load up if you set the comp up. No real dive at all, Craig is also adding a mid speed valving if people want to ace any dive at all I didnt notice any like the wc had with the same pressure in it...
It doesnt fall way into its travel when the front brkae is slammed on, the boxxer would go down 2/3rds or more and this is less but feels bottomless....

I will definently get a buddy to ride it this week and Ill try and get Adam (mtbr.com) to get more time on it and chime in....


Sorry forgot to add YES hes going ahead with the 35mm boxxer wc kits right now and the 38mm 888s are a go as well.

 

[no skid marks]

Okay then. What chassis should I be getting to house my new Avy cartridge when I get it?
Boxxer WC Air.
Boxxer Team (coil).
888RC3 EVO TI(ti coil).
888RC3 EVO(steel coil but would upgrade to Ti).
I wonder if the chrome or Black 888 stanchions are better/sliperier).
Would the 888 air chamber be a bennefit to hold up the fork when cornering etc? I do like this feature.
Will the 888 Ti coi fit in a Boxxer Team.
Don't suppose you weighed the Boxxer without a cartridge?
Can anyone upgrading to a Avy please weigh their fork without a cartidge, or I guess with the origonal cartidge and then with the Avy intalled will do.

 

[bullcrew]

Okay then. What chassis should I be getting to house my new Avy cartridge when I get it?
Boxxer WC Air.
Boxxer Team (coil).
888RC3 EVO TI(ti coil).
888RC3 EVO(steel coil but would upgrade to Ti).
I wonder if the chrome or Black 888 stanchions are better/sliperier).
Would the 888 air chamber be a bennefit to hold up the fork when cornering etc? I do like this feature.
Will the 888 Ti coi fit in a Boxxer Team.
Don't suppose you weighed the Boxxer without a cartridge?
Can anyone upgrading to a Avy please weigh their fork without a cartidge, or I guess with the origonal cartidge and then with the Avy intalled will do.

Id probably go boxxer race by the time you gut the forks motion out and slap the avy cart in it its going to be the same just less money then the team...
I know someone whos revalving his 888 ti evo and if it still is a bit off hes throwing a Avy cart in it. Hes been riding the cart in the NW and rode Avalanche stuff on and off for years...

He has always said that the feel and reliability of the DHF fork is unparrallel to anything on the market but the weight was too much. So now hes happy basically a DHF cart in any fork you like.

WC air = easier to adjust and tweak spring rate small ramp near end (all air does this)
Coil = linear from top to bottom smoother generally neat end stroke

I have my other boxxer WC here that Im putting for sale it has the avy hi speed mod which does not add weight. Ill weigh it if I can get it to a scale while Im here in socal....

 

[bullcrew]

Boxxer race question???

Can anyone verify that the comp side stanchion has the ciclip groove at the bottom of it to hold the damper guts in.... If it does then it should be a pretty straight forward install like the WC was. No driling or reworking peices on my end.

 

[Craig Seekins]

Boxxer race question???

Can anyone verify that the comp side stanchion has the ciclip groove at the bottom of it to hold the damper guts in.... If it does then it should be a pretty straight forward install like the WC was. No driling or reworking peices on my end.

The race has the clip groove but will require the lower leg damper side steel insert to be removed to be the same as the Team/WC leg, we can also modify the adaptor kit to help accomodate this fork.

 

[karpi]

Sweet! going to work out how much money I have in the bank this week. I really wanna try this thing first hand and have my buddys ride it!

 

[Kntr]

I will be doing this soon. Im not liking the Team.

 

[karpi]

just read the self install guide for the 2009 boxxer. Do you have to drill the 2010 boxxer as well? Say you want to install the ava kit in you fork, but when you sell it, and you wanna sell it with the stock internals and kip the cartridge for your next fork... what do you do?

 

[Craig Seekins]

just read the self install guide for the 2009 boxxer. Do you have to drill the 2010 boxxer as well? Say you want to install the ava kit in you fork, but when you sell it, and you wanna sell it with the stock internals and kip the cartridge for your next fork... what do you do?

The 35 mm Team and WC do not require any drilling. The 32 mm boxxers require finish drilling the 10 mm internal hole so that it extends through the bottom of the lower leg, the stock internals will still go back in this hole, the bolt washer is large enough in diameter to seal the hole properly.

 

[bullcrew]

just read the self install guide for the 2009 boxxer. Do you have to drill the 2010 boxxer as well? Say you want to install the ava kit in you fork, but when you sell it, and you wanna sell it with the stock internals and kip the cartridge for your next fork... what do you do?

No the 2010 requires no modifications.... I think the stock internals can be reused in the 09s even after drilling.

 

[bullcrew]

btw Craig cased 3 jumps really HARD yesterday 3/4" left.... The ramp up is so smooth that your head doesnt feel like it wants to try and communicate with the stem via a headbutt....

 

[ridiculous]

Being in the market for a new fork, I spoke with Craig on Monday for what must have been the better part of an hour about just about everything. I was originally calling to see when the kit would be available for Fox 40 owners, if at all. Unfortunately it is in the design phase and ultimately depends on interest and the success of the current offerings. He's a man of many talents but not unlimited money. One of his talents is explaining clearly what the hell everything does and why you need it or don't need it. After getting just about every question I had about damping or suspension in general I discovered 2 things. I dont need my 40 anymore and I do need a boxxer or 888, but only put his kit in.

Ive never talked with someone who has so much knowledge on suspension products. Not only his, but every single one of his competitors. Craig keep up the good work man!

Also very surprised to hear about the sales of these things. Most orders have come from overseas, domestic orders you can count on your hands. Hopefully that will soon change. I know of two orders to be placed.

 

[Sandwich]

That's wild that more orders are coming from overseas. I don't have a lot of cash to throw around, but I would love to throw it his way since he is local/US/homegrown.

 

[92SE-R]

im looking for a last gen boxxer now to put this cartridge in. so from what i understand, all that is required on the team/wc models, you just need to drill out the bottom hole? if you have a race model, you call craig first and he'll machine a piece differently?

 

[tacubaya]

Being in the market for a new fork, I spoke with Craig on Monday for what must have been the better part of an hour about just about everything. I was originally calling to see when the kit would be available for Fox 40 owners, if at all. Unfortunately it is in the design phase and ultimately depends on interest and the success of the current offerings. He's a man of many talents but not unlimited money. One of his talents is explaining clearly what the hell everything does and why you need it or don't need it. After getting just about every question I had about damping or suspension in general I discovered 2 things. I dont need my 40 anymore and I do need a boxxer or 888, but only put his kit in.

Ive never talked with someone who has so much knowledge on suspension products. Not only his, but every single one of his competitors. Craig keep up the good work man!

Also very surprised to hear about the sales of these things. Most orders have come from overseas, domestic orders you can count on your hands. Hopefully that will soon change. I know of two orders to be placed.

Funny thing I searched google for his name and I found a company called Get Total Control which focuses on audio, video and streaming equipment. The address in his contact us page is identical to the one on Avalanche website.

http://gettotalcontrol.com/aboutus.html

So Craig is a audio/video/electronics and also a suspension geek

Craig: I want an LCD in my shock dude!!!!!

 

[IH8Rice]

Funny thing I searched google for his name and I found a company called Get Total Control which focuses on audio, video and streaming equipment. The address in his contact us page is identical to the one on Avalanche website.

http://gettotalcontrol.com/aboutus.html

So Craig is a audio/video/electronics and also a suspension geek

Craig: I want an LCD in my shock dude!!!!!

wow, consumer electronics and the bicycle industry. he must be raking in the money

 

[Sandwich]

data acquisition what?

 

[ridiculous]

Actually Avalanche is just a subsidiary of his main business. I forgot the name but 90% of his business is moto related. Downhill is still small.

 

[Kanye West]

Racing Suspension Products

 

[IH8Rice]

it used to be called C-Cylce.
their old MTN-8 had the stickers on em too

 

[LOOnatic]

it used to be called C-Cylce.
their old MTN-8 had the stickers on em too

I need that fork for my hardtail...bad.

 

[IH8Rice]

I need that fork for my hardtail...bad.

not a $3700 10" fork? that might be overkill actually

 

[LOOnatic]

not a $3700 10" fork? that might be overkill actually

Its perfect. You must not not of seen me ride.

 

[DiscountedCycl]

Funny thing I searched google for his name and I found a company called Get Total Control which focuses on audio, video and streaming equipment. The address in his contact us page is identical to the one on Avalanche website.

http://gettotalcontrol.com/aboutus.html

So Craig is a audio/video/electronics and also a suspension geek

Craig: I want an LCD in my shock dude!!!!!

Hell i am one of his dealers and had no clue totally cool audio stuff though

 

[bullcrew]

im looking for a last gen boxxer now to put this cartridge in. so from what i understand, all that is required on the team/wc models, you just need to drill out the bottom hole? if you have a race model, you call craig first and he'll machine a piece differently?

Yeah you just finish drilling out the lower hole. Apparently its drilled most of the way through.... Yeah hes on a roll for products, I hate being so busy I sit here and look at the bike and wait for the next weekend....

It really does make a difference, especially at speed and on the trail.. Parking lot test is pretty plush and feels good, alot of forks feel good here but opened up full speed on the trail it out performes the other forks its amazing and the hyd. bottom out is an added bonus...

 

[bullcrew]

OK Rode SJT last week then
Wed: Intense trail
thur: PQ freeride line
Fri: Ted Williams
Sat: SJT, Intense trail and TLD (skyline)
Sun: TLD, Skinsuit, Intense trail

The conditions are FAST rutty as hell rocky, G-outs, corners some blow some bermed, drops, twisty single track, wide open SUPER STEEP rutted chutes with corners and so on... Literally Cableguy, mandown, overtheedge can chime in for verification as to sat/sun rides.... We shuttled a TON and did some wild rippin.

The fork performed AMAZING I did back out the comp 5 turns more and ended up having issues then I realized the tires were at 15 PSI so aired them up and was able to focus on tuning to see the range of adjustment and get a feel for it...
I ended up settling on 14 out (counter clockwise) from closed on comp and dont remember rebound lol.... Its 2 off (Counter clockwise) from where Craigs default was...

Cornering it did not dive it held the line incredible, jumps and drops were great I overshot a few and came in flat or cased hard the hydraulic bottom out is the $h!t, no harsh clank or stoppage it ramps up nice. No dive at speed in the bumps and even when it does the fact its speed sensative allows it to stay working throught the travel which was beneficial in SEVERAL situations this weekend. I wouldnt change a thing as far as the tuning and the cartridge are concerned the shock and fork are a perfect match. The bike is so well balanced and maintains lines in and out of ruts as well as Troy and I were using ruts to berm out of and swapping lines in and out of them at full speed with no issues...

The fork was amazing even on skinsuit which is named for its steeps and wide open pin it and ride layout the trail is not without NASTY ruts and serious obstacles as well as serious penalties for crashing...

These trails are frequented by Sam Hill, Athertons, Kovarik and the rest of them as well as used for training and keeping it dialed, they are by no means beginner trails or intermediate.

Sunday finished off with me fracturing my ankle on the Intense trail (sam hill cut line) on a line that Ive dialed many times before it was just my time again... Finished the ride and jumps/berms broken and will be back at it wrapped up in 2 weeks....

So heres the jist I will get someone else to ride it and rack up time on it, adam from mtbr was stuck catching up on reviews this weekend so he bagged, but will be available when I go back... I know other peoples input is beneficial and the hardest part is letting anyone ride my bike then Im stuck with theres and might miss a moment of goodness so the downside it makes you bike greedy!


Cablebuy and mandown have a few parking lot and top trail shots Ill try and get them to post...

Heres Troy from Foes Racing ready for the drop in at Skinsuit... Really long run and super fun.

overthedge and Troy

cableguy

 

[karpi]

damn it! I want my bike to arrive to order one of these!

 

[bullcrew]

damn it! I want my bike to arrive to order one of these!

What bike did you order?????

 

[cableguy]

Bullcrew and friends getting ready to shuttle

Top of one of the runs

The guy in the middle made it all the way up to the top climbing

If you look at closely, you can see a car that has been abandoned after being pushed down