[VTApe]

So I bought a '12 Giant Reign 2 in Dec from my LBS. I LOVE the bike, aside from the brakes.

They howl like crazy and feel like im dragging pebbles between the pads and rotors. Also, if I don't use them for a few minutes, I have to pull them almost back to the handlebar or 'pump' them to get them to apply power at a reasonable pull from fully out. On top of that, they just don't work very well to stop my fat ass.

I've read the comments on here and across the webz, looks like I will be rebedding the pads, sand papering the pads down a bit and rotors and cleaning with brake fluid. Also, going to zip tie a piece of rubber grip to a rotor spoke, and if it still is howling, I'll try new pads. Seems like this is a little crazy though, with a 3 month old bike I've taken on 10-15 rides. Also, never used any chemicals to clean the bike, just water-I highly, highly doubt pads are contaminated.

Should I be looking to upgrade soon? I want to have faith in my brakes and ride some lift served stuff with confidence. Guess I'm trying to feel out if my brakes need some work or just suck and are a low point on this otherwise kick ass bike that should be upgraded.

 

[oldfart]

Brakes should not sound like you have pebbles moving past the pads. I assume you are thinking of having the brakes bled and not "cleaning with brake fluid" or you mean cleaning with brake cleaning fluid. I think the calipers need to be centralized better. You can try this, loosen the caliper bolts until the caliper can just move in the spherical washers. Clamp the lever down and then tighten the caliper mounting bolts while holding the lever.

Really though if the lever goes to the bar and pumps up, those brakes need a bleed. That is a symptom of air in the system.

 

[riderfalls]

try softer pads. My reign did the same thing. I got softer pads and cleared right up. Avids do squeal and howl like a banshee though, so you might just have to get used to the sound. As far as pumping the lever to get them to stop, the system definitely needs bled.

 

[eaterofdog]

Anybody ever notice that the less someone knows, the more willing they are to give advice? Christ.

 

[oldfart]

Anybody ever notice that the less someone knows, the more willing they are to give advice? Christ.

Ever notice people that know even less make statements like the quote above without a constructive comment at all?

 

[eaterofdog]

If you had any real experience with brakes, you'd know Avid's recommended process for aligning the calipers doesn't work worth a damn.

Pulsing at the lever is the pads dipping into the holes of the rotor.

Howling is pads that are too sticky. They grab, release, grab, release thousands of times a second, making the noise. Harder (full metallic) pads will stop this, but they eat rotors.

Now shut your pie hole and get back in the box, gimp.

 

[oldfart]

Well now you've actually said something constructive. Thank you. If the calipers are not centralized well, the brakes may howl. The FIRST step is to follow the manufactures instructions and do what I suggested. Yeah, sometimes you need to centralize better with spacers feeler gauges and eyeball.

I am thinking that perhaps if the caliper is a bit cockeyed that the heel of one pad is catching on the rotor and causing the "pebbly" feel and howling induced by vibration.

The brakes also need to be bled properly because as you know, Avid brakes often come with a poor factory bleed.

And actually, organic pads tend to be quieter because they grab less. Although in some instances they howl more, like in the wet. Some frames like my wife's Giant Trance howls no matter what. A change from a clean sweep to a roundagon rotor helped and replacing the metallic with organic pads helped even more.

If you want my resume of brake experience here it is:

1999 Hayes mag 30 and whatever their next brake model was, several generations of XTR including the current and current XT, several pairs of Juicy 7, Avid Elixir C and XO, Hope Tech X2. Bled and maintained all of them myself. I am not patient enough at bleeding though. So the Avid's are a total pain. That is why I replaced the XO brakes with XTR.

 

[exzackly]

Just wanted to offer my experience with ELIXIRs. I've had 2 sets now and each seem to have their own personalities. I initially had a lot of problems with noise and that certain harmonic frequency that simply destroys a ride. It sucks for sure.

• BLEEDING: If you don't have a bleed kit, get one. The new kit has much improved syringes and comes with all the stuff you'll need to rebuild a syringe. Take a rainy day and some DOT 3 or 4 fluid (just because DOT 5.1 is more expensive) and go through the the process of bleeding them several times. You have to get proficient at bleeding them so that you'll be willing to do it more often. Consider creating your own single page of simplified instructions so that you don't have to fumble thru AVIDs manual. You need to be able to do a full bleed in under 20 minutes else you'll ruin many a good ride by compromising.
• ADJUSTING: You'll find yourself adjusting your brakes quite often. This isn't exactly a "BAD" thing. Your brakes need frequent inspection and adjusting them can provide an opportunity to spot any problems. I've found that the Tri-Align system works fairly well but sometimes it can be necessary to "eyeball" it. Once you have loosened the caliper to give it some play, give the wheel a good spin, squeeze the the lever and hold, and then tighten the allen screws by alternating between the 2. Do not completely tighten 1 and then the other. Alternate turning each about a 1/4 a turn all while holding the lever firmly. You might have to do this more than once.
• PAD REPLACEMENT: The bedding process often seems a little excessive. It's not. Those pads need to go through several heat cycles to perform at their best. Avoid using the organic pads. The metal-scintered pads are just fine. You need to prevent any friction not hush it. The Organic pads wear rapidly - in particular in moisture. They brake much better than the metal-scintered pads but that can give you a false sense security. They are quieter but in my own opinion, you need to hear, and thus know, if your pads are rubbing.
• CLEANING: You can use a Brake Cleaner (like CRC Brake Cleaner) to clean the rotors and pads but you SHOULD try to avoid it. That's some nasty stuff and unless the pads have been contaminated, 90% Isopropyl Alcohol should work fine. Always protect the pads and rotors from brake fluid, lubes, and the natural oils on your skin. Contamination is responsible for much noise. Wear nitrile gloves.

Additionally, when you change your pads or bleed the system, use a bit of DOT fluid to clean the inside of the caliper. Sometimes I'll gently squeeze the lever so that the pistons extend enough to give them a good wipe. Use ONLY DOT fluid and make certain to remove any excess. DON'T SQUEEZE TOO MUCH.

If when you are inspecting or cleaning your pads and you notice shiney areas, this can be a sign of contamination. You can use a fine grit sand paper to attempt to remove it. Those shiney areas will produce a lot of noise. Sometimes I'll scuff up the rotors as well but not frequently.

Keep your old pads. You can use them along with a big flat-head screwdriver to push the pistons back into their bores. Avoid using your new pads this way. A chip in the pad can cause noise.

You don't have to use DOT 5.1. There are some DOT 4 fluids now that offer improved "dry" and "wet" boiling points. I've been using a DOT 5.1 fluid from NAPA and while I can't prove it or figure out why, both sets of ELIXIRs seem friendlier in almost every way. I'm not sure how this could be but it is. The NAPA fluid looks just like the AVID 5.1. Viscosity is the only difference I can see. I know it's far cheaper and meets the same standards. Always keep the lid closed. Glycol-ether based DOT fluids are hygroscopic. The addition of water will change performance. NEVER USE DOT 5.

BE PATIENT and take the time to work on them yourself. If you become frustrated, STOP. Personally I enjoy working on my bikes almost as much as riding them. Machined metals are quite the organism. I try to avoid the bike shop like the plague simply because I want to spend that money on more bike stuff. I would have spent a small fortune had I taken my bike to the LBS for bleeds and such. Besides, if they can do it, it must be quite simple. Tools are usually the only deciding factor.

I just wanted to offer my 2 cents cause it's raining. I'm sure I forgot something but if I think of anything else, I'll come back.

Meantime:http://www.evanscycles.com/product_document/file/af3/817/bdf/435/avid-hydraulic-brake-setup-guide.pdf