[4130biker]

So my friend and I designed and built a certain bike accessory... He's been using it for a few years now. It turns out that a person in the industry of making said accessory is interested in the design. We're planning to meet with him, I'm assuming so he can offer something for the design. We built this to meet my friend's needs, so we never planned on marketing it, and there has been no attempt at a patent.
The company is legit, but I know "legit" companies can do some shady things. Our ideas are nothing revolutionary in my opinion, but I don't know how to protect against this guy jacking the idea from simply seeing it. Probably not a huge deal, but I don't want us to go about this wrong and get screwed out of something that we came up with.

Any ideas on what to do? Is there a way to document our work so if someone did try to patent it that we could stop them? Or is patent the only way to go besides just taking our chances? Thanks in advance for any insight.

 

[IH8Rice]

notary public maybe could help?

better yet, tell me the idea and ill find out for you

 

[FlyinPolack]

patent attorney

 

[MMike]

As I understand it, if it's been in the public domain for some time already, you can't protect your idea. You need to establish your protection before you release it to the world.

 

[jdcamb]

The bicycle seat with a chain operated dildo has been done already.

 

[narlus]

The bicycle seat with a chain operated dildo has been done already.

this one too

NSFW

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_hm7f53AabaA/SbHvDXgb4PI/AAAAAAAADdw/2Y8ZerdwqQ8/s400/Burn+After+Reading+Dildo+Chair+(2).JPG

 

[jdcamb]

this one too

NSFW

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_hm7f53AabaA/SbHvDXgb4PI/AAAAAAAADdw/2Y8ZerdwqQ8/s400/Burn+After+Reading+Dildo+Chair+(2).JPG

Oohhhhh. That looks like Corinthian Leather....

 

[w00dy]

It's my understanding that you need to patent within a year of showing your design to the public. The best you can hope for is some credit for the design. You've no claim over it legally.

 

[shiggy]

So my friend and I designed and built a certain bike accessory... He's been using it for a few years now. It turns out that a person in the industry of making said accessory is interested in the design. We're planning to meet with him, I'm assuming so he can offer something for the design. We built this to meet my friend's needs, so we never planned on marketing it, and there has been no attempt at a patent.
The company is legit, but I know "legit" companies can do some shady things. Our ideas are nothing revolutionary in my opinion, but I don't know how to protect against this guy jacking the idea from simply seeing it. Probably not a huge deal, but I don't want us to go about this wrong and get screwed out of something that we came up with.

Any ideas on what to do? Is there a way to document our work so if someone did try to patent it that we could stop them? Or is patent the only way to go besides just taking our chances? Thanks in advance for any insight.

Even with a patent, if you do not have the resources to defend it you can be ripped off.

 

[buildyourown]

Honestly, it doesn't matter that you haven't patented it. A patent only has as much power as you have money to hire a lawyer and sue. No money to defend, then your patent isn't worth a penny and certainly not the 5 figures you paid for it.

Keep you cards close to your chest and leave out some important details.
I work for a company that is constantly copied by china. Our winning strategy is to constantly innovate. By the time they rip us off, we have something newer and better to wow the customer.

 

[jdcamb]

We'll back you up... Live your dreams.... Go for it.

 

[Sghost]

Id start by editing your post to: "a few days ago"

 

[DirtyMike]

Honestly, it doesn't matter that you haven't patented it. A patent only has as much power as you have money to hire a lawyer and sue. No money to defend, then your patent isn't worth a penny and certainly not the 5 figures you paid for it.

Keep you cards close to your chest and leave out some important details.
I work for a company that is constantly copied by china. Our winning strategy is to constantly innovate. By the time they rip us off, we have something newer and better to wow the customer.

And that there is the answer to making it in this world.......

You have a product or service, your going to get copied. Thw win is to stay ahead of it, keep changing, keep improving, keep moving.

 

[4130biker]

As I understand it, if it's been in the public domain for some time already, you can't protect your idea. You need to establish your protection before you release it to the world.

Good to know, I had no idea...

Honestly, it doesn't matter that you haven't patented it. A patent only has as much power as you have money to hire a lawyer and sue. No money to defend, then your patent isn't worth a penny and certainly not the 5 figures you paid for it..

Also good to know- especially since we don't have the resources to pay for it...

Id start by editing your post to: "a few days ago"

If the company really tried to scew with us and patent it, we would be able to take issue with "prior work", right? We have all of the files and drawings used to make this.
I think we'll take our chances though, go talk to the guy and try not to spill the beans for the whole idea (which I think will be hard).

My only lingering thought is starting to produce/market these ourselves... But it appears to me that this market is fairly full with big players and the only way that we could get in is by offering a good deal. Then at that point, I don't know if it's worth our time/effort/money... I'm going to try and break down the costs and check my assumption before we talk to the dude.

Anyways, thank you everyone for the input- I'll keep you updated!

 

[splat]

If the company really tried to scew with us and patent it, we would be able to take issue with "prior work", right? We have all of the files and drawings used to make this.
I think we'll take our chances though, go talk to the guy and try not to spill the beans for the whole idea (which I think will be hard).

My only lingering thought is starting to produce/market these ourselves... But it appears to me that this market is fairly full with big players and the only way that we could get in is by offering a good deal. Then at that point, I don't know if it's worth our time/effort/money... I'm going to try and break down the costs and check my assumption before we talk to the dude.

Anyways, thank you everyone for the input- I'll keep you updated!

Yes But that all Takes Money , lots of it.

 

[mrbigisbudgood]

Send me the drawings to review.

 

[w00dy]

If the company really tried to scew with us and patent it, we would be able to take issue with "prior work", right? We have all of the files and drawings used to make this.
I think we'll take our chances though, go talk to the guy and try not to spill the beans for the whole idea (which I think will be hard).

My only lingering thought is starting to produce/market these ourselves... But it appears to me that this market is fairly full with big players and the only way that we could get in is by offering a good deal. Then at that point, I don't know if it's worth our time/effort/money... I'm going to try and break down the costs and check my assumption before we talk to the dude.

All you have to do is prove that you built it and tried it before their patent was filed and they can't prevent you from producing it. If it's been in the open that long your idea is not really patentable.

You have to look at it like this. The patent is useful only if you will be making a profit. If others copying your idea will reduce your profits by more than the cost of filing and defending your patent in court, then you have cause to pursue a patent. In the bike industry this is a rare condition.

Not to be a dick, but it sounds like you're just sitting on a cool idea that you wouldn't pursue on your own. The best you can hope for is seeing your idea in the flesh and maybe having a hand in the development. At this point some free product is a step up from what you are making off the idea.

I was in your shoes, I looked into the patent process and it would cost more than I thought I could make on the whole project. Let alone lost profits.
Your best bet is to be careful about who you talk to and be as involved as possible with the company you're pitching to.

 

[MMike]

You of course can have them sign an NDA before you speak to them.

 

[MMike]

FWIW

This is the original Bell 429. Note the fwd part of the landing gear

This is a Eurocopter EC130

Eurocopter let Bell get pretty far down the road with their design before annoncing (at a big trade show), that they were filing a lawsuit against Bell for infringing on their "mustache gear" patent. Bottom line, Bell lost.


This is what a current 429 looks like. Again....note the fwd landing gear

 

[brungeman]

All you have to do is prove that you built it and tried it before their patent was filed and they can't prevent you from producing it. If it's been in the open that long your idea is not really patentable.

You have to look at it like this. The patent is useful only if you will be making a profit. If others copying your idea will reduce your profits by more than the cost of filing and defending your patent in court, then you have cause to pursue a patent. In the bike industry this is a rare condition.

Not to be a dick, but it sounds like you're just sitting on a cool idea that you wouldn't pursue on your own. The best you can hope for is seeing your idea in the flesh and maybe having a hand in the development. At this point some free product is a step up from what you are making off the idea.

I was in your shoes, I looked into the patent process and it would cost more than I thought I could make on the whole project. Let alone lost profits.
Your best bet is to be careful about who you talk to and be as involved as possible with the company you're pitching to.

this post is wise and informed.

I just spoke to a patent attorney over Thanksgiving dinner and he explained the process. You have a year after publicly showing your product. You don't need to actually produce it yourself to hold a patent. If a patent attorney or one of those TV infomercial firms tells you they can guarantee a patent, they probably can, but it will be SOOOOOOO specific that anyone with a minor change could produce it without infringing on YOUR patent. Make sure your patent covers a real wide swath surrounding your idea, so that anyone making anything similar would need to pay patent fees.
If you are honestly thinking of going the patent route you probably still can, a patent attorney could help you with the lingo like "best manufacturing process's" etc. which would basically be the way you could get around the fact that you have had it out there for a longer period than a year.

again, just because YOU aren't going to be producing it, doesn't mean you don't want to get a patent.

 

[MMike]

this post is wise and informed.

I just spoke to a patent attorney over Thanksgiving dinner and he explained the process. You have a year after publicly showing your product..

I think IP laws must be different. I just went through the patent process twice this year. And our lawyer told us that if we wanted to eventually achieve patent protection, that we had to initiate the process ("patent pending") before we advertised it.

 

[jonKranked]

a lot of good advice here.

bottom line - a patent is only as good as the lawyer you can afford to defend it.

"prior artwork" is useful for preventing someone for going after you for infringement of their patent.

if you show someone your idea, ABSOLUTELY make them sign an NDA. Chances are they will probably want you to sign one as well. If they do, get a copy for yourself. And provide them with a copy of an NDA you have them sign. won't do much, but it will prove that you disclosed the idea to them in the event they put it into production and don't provide you with a cut (if you choose to go after them for it).

 

[MMike]

......and then there are the types of patent. Utility vs. Design. Design seems to be easier/faster. You are protecting the "look" of your invention. So something looks similar would be an infringement. But some that looks differnt, but does the same thing, then it's not protected.

And then you can apply for a patent, but once "they" evaluate it, they may decide it's not eligible because of the level of "obviousness" (which apparently is a word). If they deem the idea to not be unique or novel enough, they won't issue the patent.

you can also go for "patent pending" and then not actually pursue the patent. Those words may be enough to deter people from copying you idea, even though you have not intention of going for a full blown patent.

 

[dan-o]

Whatever your idea is, DW already thought of it.

 

[jdcamb]

Don't get ripped off by a Lawyer. Be very leary of them. They took classes in school were they had their souls ripped out. A JD is like Herpes. It never goes away. Even Satan is afraid of them...

 

[MMike]

How timely!! Look what just arrived in fedex!

 

[jonKranked]

How timely!! Look what just arrived in fedex!

so america will send you stuff?

 

[jdcamb]

If I had a girlfriend or wife I would so use that to leverage a Steak dinner and a Blow Job....

 

[lovebunny]

what ever happened with this. WHAT IS THE PRODUCT!?!

 

[stevew]

the chain operated dildo seat.

his friend loves it.

 

[BIGHITR]

So my friend and I designed and built a certain bike accessory... He's been using it for a few years now. It turns out that a person in the industry of making said accessory is interested in the design. We're planning to meet with him, I'm assuming so he can offer something for the design. We built this to meet my friend's needs, so we never planned on marketing it, and there has been no attempt at a patent.
The company is legit, but I know "legit" companies can do some shady things. Our ideas are nothing revolutionary in my opinion, but I don't know how to protect against this guy jacking the idea from simply seeing it. Probably not a huge deal, but I don't want us to go about this wrong and get screwed out of something that we came up with.

Any ideas on what to do? Is there a way to document our work so if someone did try to patent it that we could stop them? Or is patent the only way to go besides just taking our chances? Thanks in advance for any insight.

I had a utility patent, let it expire. All cameras, video cameras, laptops, and cell phones have it today. I inveted it in 1990, filed in '93, got the utility patent in 95 and held it till 2005. I currently have another utility patent pending I wrote myself, and researched at the patent office in Va, and have one in the works, and three more in my head. PM me if you want to know what to do. Pitfalls etc. Is it a design patent or utility patent? Utility meaning, the idea of the light bulb, design meaning a square light bulb different from the original light bulb. PM me. I can help you out.

Starting with a non disclosure agreement.

 

[jdcamb]

Be careful DN invented all the valid suspension designs we currently use. The Hybrid car, He actually helped Toyota design the Prius. Then all hell broke loose when he invited all these top designers to his house and they drugged him and threw Cocaine on him and forced him to work in a Vapor lounge on Bloor Street in Toronto. Subsequently all these high level corporate types stole all his good ideas and made millions while DN lives in a relative squallor... It could happen to you so be careful.....

 

[Westy]

Pee on it. It will let others know it is your property and few people will want it due to the fact it is soaked with urine.