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stoney

Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde
Jul 26, 2006
21,519
7,068
Colorado
So... I was trying to park at the local mall yesterday so Wifey could return a bunch of gifts, and found there were no spots available. We did manage to find the large, dirt/gravel auxillory parking lot that there was nobody parked in. I assume that this is because women in Marin are scared of getting their SUV's dirty.

But as I was saying, we found this gigantic empty dirt/gravel lot which had a good 4-5 days of rain soaked into it. So i decided it would be a perfectly good time to introduce Wifey to: 1) the swedish flick, 2) the e-brake turn, and 3) the donut. I decided to do this in unison with the 35mph swedish flick to full counter-lock turn, transitioning to the swedish flick to opposite rotation direction e-brake turn, and finishing off with the donut.

Despite scaring the isht out of her, I think that adventure in dirt road car control has convinced her to be my co-driver for my next rally-X. I will follow up once that occurs.
 

stoney

Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde
Jul 26, 2006
21,519
7,068
Colorado
I know. But at least I'm not scared of living a little.
Plus why the f* not? I have the disposable income to deal with any consquences.
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
0
SF
I suppose the debate is driving carefully versus aggressive maneuvering.

I was watching the Bourne Identity, and when the stunt driver was whipping this beat-up Mini, I was like, I'm not sure I can drive like that.

I could do it if I practice, but I am not going to risk damaging my car or even putting excessive wear.

But I can see how aggressive maneuvering can be used in an emergency situation, so possibly I need to practice to be able to drive safer.
 
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stoney

Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde
Jul 26, 2006
21,519
7,068
Colorado
I suppose the debate is driving carefully versus aggressive maneuvering.

I was watching the Bourne Identity, and when the stunt driver was whipping this beat-up Mini, I was like, I'm not sure I can drive like that.

I could do it if I practice, but I am not going to risk damaging my car or even putting excessive wear.

But I can how aggressive maneuvering might be necessary in an emergency situation, so possibly I am not driving safely enough by being unable to make these kinds of driving moves.
I'm not really sure what the second half of that was supposed to say (are you drunk mid-day again?). But if what you are saying is something about being able to aggressively manuver out of bad situations, then yes it is helpful.

I have ben in multiple situations when traffic doing 70+ just stopped and I have been forced to make an aggressive turn leading to a slide to avoid being in the middle of a pile up. Once by the serra monte mall where 35, 9, and 280 come together and another on the 5 when traffic stopped from 80 on no notice and I ended up in the center grass divider at over 60.

Both of these manuvers prevented me from being the middle car in a multi-car pile-up. I also learned these manuvers while doing track days, auto-x, and rally-x. I am willing to beat on my car to learn this stuff and have fun doing it. Plus, I am my own mechanic which keeps costs down.
 

MTB_Rob_NC

What do I have to do to get you in this car TODAY?
Nov 15, 2002
3,428
0
Charlotte, NC
I have ben in multiple situations when traffic doing 70+ just stopped and I have been forced to make an aggressive turn leading to a slide to avoid being in the middle of a pile up.
Then you were following too closely to begin with dumba$$.
 

stoney

Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde
Jul 26, 2006
21,519
7,068
Colorado
Then you were following too closely to begin with dumba$$.
1) Let me know when you get 7 car lengths on the highway in an urban area
2) I could have stopped in the incident on the 5, but the SUV behind me could not have. Which is why they hit the car ahead of me.
 

MTB_Rob_NC

What do I have to do to get you in this car TODAY?
Nov 15, 2002
3,428
0
Charlotte, NC
1) Let me know when you get 7 car lengths on the highway in an urban area
2) I could have stopped in the incident on the 5, but the SUV behind me could not have. Which is why they hit the car ahead of me.
Considering I grew up in South Florida commuting between Fort Lauderdale and Miami DAILY, currently commute over 100+ miles daily through Charlotte, NC and lived in Atlanta, GA all summer I can safely say ALL THE TIME. I also have years of AutoX, Road Racing and Drag racing experience and can think of 1 time (I am 37) where I had to control a skid through traffic to avoid an accident. I am not saying it isnt a very valuable skill to have, but if YOU have to use it regularly/multiple times you have bad judgment at assesing your driving environment.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,031
5,921
borcester rhymes
Plus, I am my own mechanic which keeps costs down.
i thought you were the rich kid with the expendable income?

and seriously, the only times I've ever been in a hairy situation have been from not paying attention or blatantly bad other drivers (ie trying to merge INTO my car). Both of which were resolved without incident without Tony Hawk's Extreme Driving Maneuvers. I simply moved out of the way or got on the brakes.
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
0
SF
I'm not really sure what the second half of that was supposed to say (are you drunk mid-day again?). But if what you are saying is something about being able to aggressively manuver out of bad situations, then yes it is helpful.

I have ben in multiple situations when traffic doing 70+ just stopped and I have been forced to make an aggressive turn leading to a slide to avoid being in the middle of a pile up. Once by the serra monte mall where 35, 9, and 280 come together and another on the 5 when traffic stopped from 80 on no notice and I ended up in the center grass divider at over 60.

Both of these manuvers prevented me from being the middle car in a multi-car pile-up. I also learned these manuvers while doing track days, auto-x, and rally-x. I am willing to beat on my car to learn this stuff and have fun doing it. Plus, I am my own mechanic which keeps costs down.
Well, I was drunk 4 hours ago, so I guess a brief nap doesn't do much to return brain functions.

But being able to make an aggressive move when the time is right is the safest play.

Now how to practice it without f***ing up your own car is the trick.
 

KavuRider

Turbo Monkey
Jan 30, 2006
2,565
4
CT
and seriously, the only times I've ever been in a hairy situation have been from not paying attention or blatantly bad other drivers (ie trying to merge INTO my car). Both of which were resolved without incident without Tony Hawk's Extreme Driving Maneuvers. I simply moved out of the way or got on the brakes.
:thumb:
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
0
SF
Considering I grew up in South Florida commuting between Fort Lauderdale and Miami DAILY, currently commute over 100+ miles daily through Charlotte, NC and lived in Atlanta, GA all summer I can safely say ALL THE TIME. I also have years of AutoX, Road Racing and Drag racing experience and can think of 1 time (I am 37) where I had to control a skid through traffic to avoid an accident. I am not saying it isnt a very valuable skill to have, but if YOU have to use it regularly/multiple times you have bad judgment at assesing your driving environment.
That's the flip side to aggressive driving.

Just because I can drive aggressively does not mean I should drive in an aggressive fashion.

99.99999999% of the time on the roads, maintaining a 3 second gap, staying within the speed limit, and not distracting myself with the cell/ipod/passengers is all I need to do to drive safely.

But I know I can control a skid, make a swerve turn, and step on the gas when necessary.
 

Ciaran

Fear my banana
Apr 5, 2004
9,839
15
So Cal
I know. But at least I'm not scared of living a little.
Plus why the f* not? I have the disposable income to deal with any consquences.
My guess is that's what really pisses people off here about you. :rofl: :p

Hey man, if I had the bucks to buy my way out of trouble, I'd be getting into more trouble too. :thumb: :weee:
 

bdamschen

Turbo Monkey
Nov 28, 2005
3,377
156
Spreckels, CA
I used to drive like a jackass all the time. I've never done any type of auto x, or road racing, but plenty of desert racing. There was a period of my life when everywhere my buddies and went was a race, passing people on the shoulder was considered a valid move, the shortcut to everywhere was through the neighborhood that had the double drainage ditches you could air off of and turn indicators were always opposite of the direction you were going ("no warning!").

I was fine sideways in the air in the rain on a crowded street, ice and snow were just added fun and Scandinavian flicks made on ramps more bearable....

Then I realized how much $$ i was spending on broken car parts, insurance and speeding tickets, so I started driving like a normal human and not a douche. I'd say I'm having just as much fun now as I did then, just not on my way to work.
 

stoney

Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde
Jul 26, 2006
21,519
7,068
Colorado
I used to drive like a jackass all the time. I've never done any type of auto x, or road racing, but plenty of desert racing. There was a period of my life when everywhere my buddies and went was a race, passing people on the shoulder was considered a valid move, the shortcut to everywhere was through the neighborhood that had the double drainage ditches you could air off of and turn indicators were always opposite of the direction you were going ("no warning!").

I was fine sideways in the air in the rain on a crowded street, ice and snow were just added fun and Scandinavian flicks made on ramps more bearable....

Then I realized how much $$ i was spending on broken car parts, insurance and speeding tickets, so I started driving like a normal human and not a douche. I'd say I'm having just as much fun now as I did then, just not on my way to work.
There is a lot of stupid in that post. Glad to hear you turned it around.
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
0
SF
I used to drive like a jackass all the time. I've never done any type of auto x, or road racing, but plenty of desert racing. There was a period of my life when everywhere my buddies and went was a race, passing people on the shoulder was considered a valid move, the shortcut to everywhere was through the neighborhood that had the double drainage ditches you could air off of and turn indicators were always opposite of the direction you were going ("no warning!").

I was fine sideways in the air in the rain on a crowded street, ice and snow were just added fun and Scandinavian flicks made on ramps more bearable....

Then I realized how much $$ i was spending on broken car parts, insurance and speeding tickets, so I started driving like a normal human and not a douche. I'd say I'm having just as much fun now as I did then, just not on my way to work.
That's why I ride a motorcycle.

On the city streets, I am as meek as a mouse, but on the highway I go real fast in a very controlled fashion.

I suppose I am opening myself to criticism like TheJoker, because I feel I am riding safely despite going over the limit, but most non-motorcyclists would think I am riding recklessly at the speeds I travel.

He thinks his 3am jaunts along 101S are safe as well. Maybe we are both splitting hairs.
 

bdamschen

Turbo Monkey
Nov 28, 2005
3,377
156
Spreckels, CA
There is a lot of stupid in that post. Glad to hear you turned it around.
It's true.

I never had any real close calls or got in any wrecks, but all in all, not too bright and it was only a matter of time before something outside of my control happened. During that whole time though, I felt like I was the best driver in the world and people who got freaked out by the way I drove just didn't understand, or just didn't know that I was in control the whole time.... just sayin :think:
 

CBJ

year old fart
Mar 19, 2002
12,862
4,159
Copenhagen, Denmark
1) Let me know when you get 7 car lengths on the highway in an urban area
2) I could have stopped in the incident on the 5, but the SUV behind me could not have. Which is why they hit the car ahead of me.
What you learn at the defensive driving course and I try to follow:

1) If somebody is too close behind you can always pull over in another lane.

2) If 7 car lengths are needed for your speed but not possible then slow down.

That said I do agree that good driving skills will make you a safer driver especially if you stay within the speed limits and current driving conditions.
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
0
SF
What you learn at the defensive driving course and I try to follow:

1) If somebody is too close behind you can always pull over in another lane.

2) If 7 car lengths are needed for your speed but not possible then slow down.

That said I do agree that good driving skills will make you a safer driver especially if you stay within the speed limits and current driving conditions.
In the defense of TheJoker, at 65mph, which is the speed limit on my part of 101 and 10 over his section, you need to maintain a 380 foot gap to keep a safe 4 second margin. Even the minimum safe margin of 2 seconds is still 190 feet.

Unless you enjoy having car after car cut you off by keeping a 200 foot gap, most drivers maintain a 40-60 foot gap, about 3-4 cars lengths, when going about 60mph. That is less than a second reaction time.

So you better be able to handle your vehicle in an emergency stop if you drive like daily commuters in busy urban area normally drive.
 

CrabJoe StretchPants

Reincarnated Crab Walking Head Spinning Bruce Dick
Nov 30, 2003
14,163
2,484
Groton, MA
In the defense of TheJoker, at 65mph, which is the speed limit on my part of 101 and 10 over his section, you need to maintain a 380 foot gap to keep a safe 4 second margin. Even the minimum safe margin of 2 seconds is still 190 feet.

Unless you enjoy having car after car cut you off by keeping a 200 foot gap, most drivers maintain a 40-60 foot gap, about 3-4 cars lengths, when going about 60mph. That is less than a second reaction time.

So you better be able to handle your vehicle in an emergency stop if you drive like daily commuters in busy urban area normally drive.
And this is why you watch the brake lights of cars 2, 3, 4, 5 cars ahead of you....
 

stevew

resident influencer
Sep 21, 2001
40,494
9,524
In the defense of TheJoker, at 65mph, which is the speed limit on my part of 101 and 10 over his section, you need to maintain a 380 foot gap to keep a safe 4 second margin. Even the minimum safe margin of 2 seconds is still 190 feet.

.
it's called getting nowhere fast.
 

KavuRider

Turbo Monkey
Jan 30, 2006
2,565
4
CT
And this is why you watch the brake lights of cars 2, 3, 4, 5 cars ahead of you....
Precisely.

But I do agree with what Sanjuro said, the same thing happens here in Phoenix, cars will keep filling any gap you leave.

I drive an old conversion van, so I have no desire for "speed".

A week ago, I saw 2 cars pass people in the turn (suicide) lane on smaller side streets. Morons. I bet they thought they were awesome.
 

stoney

Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde
Jul 26, 2006
21,519
7,068
Colorado
I have been trying to teach Wifey how to.watch brake lights cars.ahead. driving home tonight I was.explaining not to brake in corners, and how.to.define a safe braking section. She's getting better, but I.am still.trying to get her to look further ahead.
 

stoney

Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde
Jul 26, 2006
21,519
7,068
Colorado
i thought you were the rich kid with the expendable income?

and seriously, the only times I've ever been in a hairy situation have been from not paying attention or blatantly bad other drivers (ie trying to merge INTO my car). Both of which were resolved without incident without Tony Hawk's Extreme Driving Maneuvers. I simply moved out of the way or got on the brakes.
not so much on tbe rich kid bit. I work a high paying, high stress, miserable and long hour job. I do have disposable income, but I am not willing to throw it away when unnecessary. Also, we budget ourselves to $800 pet month of disposable cash. I save.most of it to pay for my toys. Everything else goes into IRA's, 401k, and cash savings. I'm not going to.have this.job forever, so I want.to maximize it while I can.
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
0
SF
not so much on tbe rich kid bit. I work a high paying, high stress, miserable and long hour job. I do have disposable income, but I am not willing to throw it away when unnecessary. Also, we budget ourselves to $800 pet month of disposable cash. I save.most of it to pay for my toys. Everything else goes into IRA's, 401k, and cash savings. I'm not going to.have this.job forever, so I want.to maximize it while I can.
BTW, I don't think this is a personal thing or a money thing.

A few weeks ago, a schmuck in a 90's 240sx decided to tailgate me when I was doing 90mph on my motorcycle.
 

skatetokil

Turbo Monkey
Jan 2, 2005
2,383
-1
DC/Bluemont VA
In the defense of TheJoker, at 65mph, which is the speed limit on my part of 101 and 10 over his section, you need to maintain a 380 foot gap to keep a safe 4 second margin. Even the minimum safe margin of 2 seconds is still 190 feet.

Unless you enjoy having car after car cut you off by keeping a 200 foot gap, most drivers maintain a 40-60 foot gap, about 3-4 cars lengths, when going about 60mph. That is less than a second reaction time.

So you better be able to handle your vehicle in an emergency stop if you drive like daily commuters in busy urban area normally drive.
Agree, I've been on the 10 and the 101 in LA and it's not out of the ordinary to see 4 lanes of cars doing 90 mph with 15-20 ft of spacing (so they won't immediately get cut off by the dude in the Lancer Evo with the flat brimmed hat). When something goes bad, it goes bad quick. I've definitely had to stand on the brakes and pull onto the shoulder, and multiple people I know have been rear ended in these situations.
 

stoney

Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde
Jul 26, 2006
21,519
7,068
Colorado
Just thought I'd say I fell off the wagon in our wagon a little bit last weekend in the rain..... and it felt GOOD. :weee:
hahaha. I'm back on the wagon again. Been riding too much and getting it out of my system.