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Bad news about Sombrio

JohnnyBoyDH

JohnnyBoyDH

Monkey
Aug 6, 2003
422
0
Burlington, Ontario, Canada
I don't think it is even about the quality of the product or the premium price. They are a tiny niche brand in a tiny niche sport. A small blip on the action sport radar and not even a blip on the mainstream fashion radar market share wise and they wanted to do stand alone stores? Without a sh1t-ton of capital, I just don't see how the business plan could make any sense (even with tons of capital really). Maybe it had lots of colourful pictures...
 
Last edited:
M

makeit

Chimp
Dec 3, 2013
2
0
gemini2k said:
That has always seemed like such a BS argument to me. I mean what, more, high quality stiching, slightly better polyester adds like...$4-5 to manufacturing costs? It doesn't justify $150 shorts. Not even close.
Click to expand...
Where oh where to start…. You could say I know a thing or two about this topic and I don't usually post on forums in fact most of the mtb industry browse them to see what is said but often don't get involved in a opening up a whole can of worms but after reading the comments I felt the need.

If people think that its as simple as doubling up a manufacture cost then they have been sitting in a cave for a long time. Lets start at the beginning of the production process.

Design is handed off...labour cost right there, factory get design and then cost start to build, first you have to buy fabric not 10 yards 1000 to 3000 depending how big a company you are. So for the small companies like for example Sombrio theory have the options of buying 1000 minimum order. If you went to use a nice fabric that doesn't fall apart then you go for 1500 if the mill will even do that for you and then you pay a surcharge as your not hitting the quantities there offering. SO now were in to $4 to $5 a yard so already were at the price you mentioned and this thing isn't even dyed yet. Now you have to hit the 500 yards per colour and get it dyed. ok so we have the fabric. lets add zippers at $1.20 yes.. each. now mesh, stretch rib, velcro, inner short with chamois if it even has one, front snaps. prints and other trims if there are any to brand the clothing and make it look different from every other brand that is doing the same. By now your looking at around $19 roughly for a mid level short. Then add in the tooling for things like custom branded snaps, silicone print, zipper pulls etc. Now you have the short we have all wanted for the sales team to go out there and do well with. We then move on to the sales sample stage.

Now these are specially made and no production line can be set up as its a small run of 200 or so. So were paying 3 times the actual labour cost to do this, yes very expensive samples that very skilled workers put together as they are from a sample room. Now we know China etc are growing at an excessive rate and their economy is booming so people are getting wealthy and people want more money all this economic boom is pushing labour prices up so in turn pushes up our costs.

So now we have the orders in and were going in to production with our $20 short. Now we add labour to that and then the factories profit margin. lets say were at $23 dollars give or take. Put it on the boat and ship it out, there is another cost. so landed its about $24 ahhh but wait we have tax and duty and of course the fees the government charge for so $1 ish per item that is coming in from China, were at 26 isn I think now and that is generous (this is all real rough estimates based on facts) so the manufacturing company TLD Sombrio Fox Royal One whoever it is now has to send to distributors so they want there cut, then they send to stores who also need to make some profit and then we can add sales tax so end price is about $110 and that is for a mid level short. Any change at manufacture like lets add a zip you can times it by 4 to get the added on cost to the end price.

So there you have it you don't make it for $10 and sell for $20 otherwise we would all be doing it and sales guys would be selling clothing like hot cakes. With manufacturing you can't win you do a cheap short it falls apart you get bad reviews and people complain you do a long lasting short people go on about price being too high. It is possible to find the happy medium but most brands cover this by offering a WHOLE RANGE all price pointed. So people are complaining about $150 shorts maybe you shouldn't be looking at those and you should be buying the $60 shorts with two pockets and no zippers, then they can bitch about how it doesn't have zippers on it.

In the case of Sombrio they were getting there and granted there fit and quality has suffered along the way but I feel sorry for those guys as the MTB market is very small and niche. I think them and Royal may well be the only brands just doing mtg gear and with comments like the above its no wonder they struggled. People dont want to pay for good gear but are quick to complain when it doesn't last. Small bike industry companies can't hit the minimums and big quantities that the big chain stores can hit couch as Gap Adidas etc etc so they pay a premium.

Granted Sombrio were nuts to do footwear which is even more expensive but you can't blame them for expensive clothing. Bike customers tend to spend their cash on hardwear not softwear and its always been this way. Sombrio weren't MX they weren't surf, they weren't sportswear and didn't do much road and probably because of there determination to stick it out in MTB and be "CORE" like Royal and no doubt some others I can't think off off the top of my head and unfortunately it didn't work out. A lot of the industry is struggling because of economy and customers that would rather pay for a pair of shorts from 4 years ago on close out. Im surprised there are as many clothing companies in MTB to be honest. MTB is a niche part of an niche overall cycling market.

Hopefully that will help inform people a little and shed some light on why this has been happening to a number of companies in our industry lately. Above is not entirely pointed at you gemini as there a are lots of people that are ill informed. There are a few people out there that want the best shorts just like the best $3000 wheels and then there is the rest of us thats why there are different price points for shorts. It is a real shame though I know I don't want to look like a MX rider all the time but it seems MX companies do well because there in other markets and the Core MTB companies struggle. Maybe MTB companies should go in to MX !! now theres a thought.
 
Last edited:
Da Peach

Da Peach

Outwitted by a rodent
Jul 2, 2002
13,801
5,308
North Van
I still wear my Oakley shorts which I bought along with my used 2006 whistler park demo bike.

My sombrio's lasted 2 rides, wore a hole in the ass seam, snagged my seat and made me crash. Fvck sombrio.
 
jonKranked

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
89,399
27,622
media blackout
makeit said:
Where oh where to start…. You could say I know a thing or two about this topic and I don't usually post on forums in fact most of the mtb industry browse them to see what is said but often don't get involved in a opening up a whole can of worms but after reading the comments I felt the need.

If people think that its as simple as doubling up a manufacture cost then they have been sitting in a cave for a long time. Lets start at the beginning of the production process.

Design is handed off...labour cost right there, factory get design and then cost start to build, first you have to buy fabric not 10 yards 1000 to 3000 depending how big a company you are. So for the small companies like for example Sombrio theory have the options of buying 1000 minimum order. If you went to use a nice fabric that doesn't fall apart then you go for 1500 if the mill will even do that for you and then you pay a surcharge as your not hitting the quantities there offering. SO now were in to $4 to $5 a yard so already were at the price you mentioned and this thing isn't even dyed yet. Now you have to hit the 500 yards per colour and get it dyed. ok so we have the fabric. lets add zippers at $1.20 yes.. each. now mesh, stretch rib, velcro, inner short with chamois if it even has one, front snaps. prints and other trims if there are any to brand the clothing and make it look different from every other brand that is doing the same. By now your looking at around $19 roughly for a mid level short. Then add in the tooling for things like custom branded snaps, silicone print, zipper pulls etc. Now you have the short we have all wanted for the sales team to go out there and do well with. We then move on to the sales sample stage.

Now these are specially made and no production line can be set up as its a small run of 200 or so. So were paying 3 times the actual labour cost to do this, yes very expensive samples that very skilled workers put together as they are from a sample room. Now we know China etc are growing at an excessive rate and their economy is booming so people are getting wealthy and people want more money all this economic boom is pushing labour prices up so in turn pushes up our costs.

So now we have the orders in and were going in to production with our $20 short. Now we add labour to that and then the factories profit margin. lets say were at $23 dollars give or take. Put it on the boat and ship it out, there is another cost. so landed its about $24 ahhh but wait we have tax and duty and of course the fees the government charge for so $1 ish per item that is coming in from China, were at 26 isn I think now and that is generous (this is all real rough estimates based on facts) so the manufacturing company TLD Sombrio Fox Royal One whoever it is now has to send to distributors so they want there cut, then they send to stores who also need to make some profit and then we can add sales tax so end price is about $110 and that is for a mid level short. Any change at manufacture like lets add a zip you can times it by 4 to get the added on cost to the end price.

So there you have it you don't make it for $10 and sell for $20 otherwise we would all be doing it and sales guys would be selling clothing like hot cakes. With manufacturing you can't win you do a cheap short it falls apart you get bad reviews and people complain you do a long lasting short people go on about price being too high. It is possible to find the happy medium but most brands cover this by offering a WHOLE RANGE all price pointed. So people are complaining about $150 shorts maybe you shouldn't be looking at those and you should be buying the $60 shorts with two pockets and no zippers, then they can bitch about how it doesn't have zippers on it.

In the case of Sombrio they were getting there and granted there fit and quality has suffered along the way but I feel sorry for those guys as the MTB market is very small and niche. I think them and Royal may well be the only brands just doing mtg gear and with comments like the above its no wonder they struggled. People dont want to pay for good gear but are quick to complain when it doesn't last. Small bike industry companies can't hit the minimums and big quantities that the big chain stores can hit couch as Gap Adidas etc etc so they pay a premium.

Granted Sombrio were nuts to do footwear which is even more expensive but you can't blame them for expensive clothing. Bike customers tend to spend their cash on hardwear not softwear and its always been this way. Sombrio weren't MX they weren't surf, they weren't sportswear and didn't do much road and probably because of there determination to stick it out in MTB and be "CORE" like Royal and no doubt some others I can't think off off the top of my head and unfortunately it didn't work out. A lot of the industry is struggling because of economy and customers that would rather pay for a pair of shorts from 4 years ago on close out. Im surprised there are as many clothing companies in MTB to be honest. MTB is a niche part of an niche overall cycling market.

Hopefully that will help inform people a little and shed some light on why this has been happening to a number of companies in our industry lately. Above is not entirely pointed at you gemini as there a are lots of people that are ill informed. There are a few people out there that want the best shorts just like the best $3000 wheels and then there is the rest of us thats why there are different price points for shorts. It is a real shame though I know I don't want to look like a MX rider all the time but it seems MX companies do well because there in other markets and the Core MTB companies struggle. Maybe MTB companies should go in to MX !! now theres a thought.
Click to expand...
now explain this sh*t:

bibs: $650

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/assos-ll.fugu_s5-bib-tight?ti=U2VhcmNoIFJlc3VsdHM6YXNzb3MgYmliczoxOjM6YXNzb3MgYmlicw

hat. an effing HAT. $150

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/assos-fuguhelm-cap?ti=U2VhcmNoIFJlc3VsdHM6YXNzb3M6MToyNTphc3Nvcw

shoe cover. SHOE. COVER. $230.

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/assos-fugu-s7-bootie?ti=U2VhcmNoIFJlc3VsdHM6YXNzb3M6MTozNzphc3Nvcw
 
norbar

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,516
1,738
Warsaw :/
makeit said:
Where oh where to start…. You could say I know a thing or two about this topic and I don't usually post on forums in fact most of the mtb industry browse them to see what is said but often don't get involved in a opening up a whole can of worms but after reading the comments I felt the need.

If people think that its as simple as doubling up a manufacture cost then they have been sitting in a cave for a long time. Lets start at the beginning of the production process.

Design is handed off...labour cost right there, factory get design and then cost start to build, first you have to buy fabric not 10 yards 1000 to 3000 depending how big a company you are. So for the small companies like for example Sombrio theory have the options of buying 1000 minimum order. If you went to use a nice fabric that doesn't fall apart then you go for 1500 if the mill will even do that for you and then you pay a surcharge as your not hitting the quantities there offering. SO now were in to $4 to $5 a yard so already were at the price you mentioned and this thing isn't even dyed yet. Now you have to hit the 500 yards per colour and get it dyed. ok so we have the fabric. lets add zippers at $1.20 yes.. each. now mesh, stretch rib, velcro, inner short with chamois if it even has one, front snaps. prints and other trims if there are any to brand the clothing and make it look different from every other brand that is doing the same. By now your looking at around $19 roughly for a mid level short. Then add in the tooling for things like custom branded snaps, silicone print, zipper pulls etc. Now you have the short we have all wanted for the sales team to go out there and do well with. We then move on to the sales sample stage.

Now these are specially made and no production line can be set up as its a small run of 200 or so. So were paying 3 times the actual labour cost to do this, yes very expensive samples that very skilled workers put together as they are from a sample room. Now we know China etc are growing at an excessive rate and their economy is booming so people are getting wealthy and people want more money all this economic boom is pushing labour prices up so in turn pushes up our costs.

So now we have the orders in and were going in to production with our $20 short. Now we add labour to that and then the factories profit margin. lets say were at $23 dollars give or take. Put it on the boat and ship it out, there is another cost. so landed its about $24 ahhh but wait we have tax and duty and of course the fees the government charge for so $1 ish per item that is coming in from China, were at 26 isn I think now and that is generous (this is all real rough estimates based on facts) so the manufacturing company TLD Sombrio Fox Royal One whoever it is now has to send to distributors so they want there cut, then they send to stores who also need to make some profit and then we can add sales tax so end price is about $110 and that is for a mid level short. Any change at manufacture like lets add a zip you can times it by 4 to get the added on cost to the end price.


So there you have it you don't make it for $10 and sell for $20 otherwise we would all be doing it and sales guys would be selling clothing like hot cakes. With manufacturing you can't win you do a cheap short it falls apart you get bad reviews and people complain you do a long lasting short people go on about price being too high. It is possible to find the happy medium but most brands cover this by offering a WHOLE RANGE all price pointed. So people are complaining about $150 shorts maybe you shouldn't be looking at those and you should be buying the $60 shorts with two pockets and no zippers, then they can bitch about how it doesn't have zippers on it.

In the case of Sombrio they were getting there and granted there fit and quality has suffered along the way but I feel sorry for those guys as the MTB market is very small and niche. I think them and Royal may well be the only brands just doing mtg gear and with comments like the above its no wonder they struggled. People dont want to pay for good gear but are quick to complain when it doesn't last. Small bike industry companies can't hit the minimums and big quantities that the big chain stores can hit couch as Gap Adidas etc etc so they pay a premium.

Granted Sombrio were nuts to do footwear which is even more expensive but you can't blame them for expensive clothing. Bike customers tend to spend their cash on hardwear not softwear and its always been this way. Sombrio weren't MX they weren't surf, they weren't sportswear and didn't do much road and probably because of there determination to stick it out in MTB and be "CORE" like Royal and no doubt some others I can't think off off the top of my head and unfortunately it didn't work out. A lot of the industry is struggling because of economy and customers that would rather pay for a pair of shorts from 4 years ago on close out. Im surprised there are as many clothing companies in MTB to be honest. MTB is a niche part of an niche overall cycling market.

Hopefully that will help inform people a little and shed some light on why this has been happening to a number of companies in our industry lately. Above is not entirely pointed at you gemini as there a are lots of people that are ill informed. There are a few people out there that want the best shorts just like the best $3000 wheels and then there is the rest of us thats why there are different price points for shorts. It is a real shame though I know I don't want to look like a MX rider all the time but it seems MX companies do well because there in other markets and the Core MTB companies struggle. Maybe MTB companies should go in to MX !! now theres a thought.
Click to expand...

I agree but with a high price you need proper brand image to justify it. Their brand image was doing nothing to justify it. It's true I will concentrate more on branding since it's my job but there are many examples on the market. Companies that got on the enduro train in yurp are still doing relatively ok. That's a market where people are paying a lot more for clothing. Still you are right they have to support themselves with XC if MX is not an option. But Endura is a nice example of bike specific company. ION may be interesting but they are a surf company first.
 
ocelot

ocelot

Monkey
Mar 8, 2009
395
10
Canadastan
While we're at it, can someone explain what's up with Maloja?!
I remember their shorts being sold on Hucknroll for almost $200... Besides flashy colors, what's so special about the stuff they sell? Well, I don't think many people thought that they were special enough because HnR's whole Maloja stock was heavily discounted shortly after being put up for sale. It was still ridiculously expensive after the reduction...
 
manhattanprjkt83

manhattanprjkt83

Rusty Trombone
Jul 10, 2003
9,660
1,237
Nilbog
gemini2k said:
That has always seemed like such a BS argument to me. I mean what, more, high quality stiching, slightly better polyester adds like...$4-5 to manufacturing costs? It doesn't justify $150 shorts. Not even close.
Click to expand...
i have been in the apparel sourcing business for over 10 years now, trust me it isnt BS...stuff ramps up very quickly, especially when you go through several iterations of samples...
 
Electric_City

Electric_City

Torture wrench
Apr 14, 2007
2,085
824
M

makeit

Chimp
Dec 3, 2013
2
0
jonKranked said:
now explain this sh*t:

bibs: $650

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/assos-ll.fugu_s5-bib-tight?ti=U2VhcmNoIFJlc3VsdHM6YXNzb3MgYmliczoxOjM6YXNzb3MgYmlicw

hat. an effing HAT. $150

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/assos-fuguhelm-cap?ti=U2VhcmNoIFJlc3VsdHM6YXNzb3M6MToyNTphc3Nvcw

shoe cover. SHOE. COVER. $230.

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/assos-fugu-s7-bootie?ti=U2VhcmNoIFJlc3VsdHM6YXNzb3M6MTozNzphc3Nvcw
Click to expand...

Yeah you got me with road gear, it is difficult to justify those prices. I think they just have a different market. Road guys will blow the money. It doesn't get muddy and rarely gets wet when out so I guess they can use it longer and the price doesn't phase them. Rapha and Assos prices always blow me away but they are doing very very good for themselves and the only explanation is its being made in the west and they are using premium fabrics. Someone mentioned Endura, yes they do really good and hats off to them but they are also involved with road cycling and make a lot of commuter gear which is the biggest growing segment, again a different market to MTB.
 
Bikael Molton

Bikael Molton

goofy for life
Jun 9, 2003
4,088
1,235
El Lay
I don't remember ever seeing a Sombrio jersey that I wanted to wear. That's the only difference between them and Dakine or Fox, for me personally.
Perhaps Sombrio never got outletted for $30 either, which would be another reason I never bought any.
 
Electric_City

Electric_City

Torture wrench
Apr 14, 2007
2,085
824
jonKranked said:
you do realize how much it costs to produce carbon components/frames right?
Click to expand...
F that whole carbon bullschitt. You can pay $3,200 for an aluminum frame too. $1,600+ on a fork $500 on a crank $500 on brakes $1,200+ on wheels and there's still more to go!
2 years ago nobody wanted carbon. Now it's trendy like fat bikes. Better get it or be slow? Bike companies like Specialized have the best marketing reps in the world. Cause whatever they say, sticks... To a lot of people, but not everyone. The funny thing is that the cost of aluminum frames have dropped in cost all of a sudden. Is it on sale in China or something? I know they put cheaper rear shocks on them, but the overall cost has dropped by at least one third. The carbon is the price that aluminum frames used to be. Every time they raise the price and you get "buyers-high" you'll justify the purchase and rarely find fault with it.

Out of all the things out there that you can do with $10,000, is a bike worth that much? Don't even get me started on the $15,000 road bikes!
 
Last edited:
jonKranked

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
89,399
27,622
media blackout
Electric_City said:
F that whole carbon bullschitt. You can pay $3,200 for an aluminum frame too. $1,600+ on a fork $500 on a crank $500 on brakes $1,200+ on wheels and there's still more to go!
2 years ago nobody wanted carbon. Now it's trendy like fat bikes. Better get it or be slow? Bike companies like Specialized have the best marketing reps in the world. Cause whatever they say, sticks... To a lot of people, but not everyone. The funny thing is that the cost of aluminum frames have dropped in cost all of a sudden. Is it on sale in China or something? I know they put cheaper rear shocks on them, but the overall cost has dropped by at least one third. The carbon is the price that aluminum frames used to be. Every time they raise the price and you get "buyers-high" you'll justify the purchase and rarely find fault with it.

Out of all the things out there that you can do with $10,000, is a bike worth that much? Don't even get me started on the $15,000 road bikes!
Click to expand...
your coca cola doesn't taste the same as it used to
remember when a bowl of soup used to cost a nickel?
 
stiksandstones

stiksandstones

Turbo Monkey
May 21, 2002
5,078
25
Orange, Ca
Fair play....and even more to add to this, but people get bored hearing about what it costs to run a business and produce product. I like your last comment about MTB companies getting into MX, I tend to often say that is what we did at TLD, Troy was catering to the MTB/BMX/bicycle market before tried MX (Edge all mountain helmet in early 90's, Daytona full face in 95', custom paint on more bike racers than moto, tees and hoodies for mtb crowd) he then made some lycra pieces in the mid 90's, 98' started to make some moto pants and jerseys that were first worn by MTBers. Funny when we get called out as a 'moto brand' when we started in bikes, still riding bikes.

makeit said:
Where oh where to start…. You could say I know a thing or two about this topic and I don't usually post on forums in fact most of the mtb industry browse them to see what is said but often don't get involved in a opening up a whole can of worms but after reading the comments I felt the need.

If people think that its as simple as doubling up a manufacture cost then they have been sitting in a cave for a long time. Lets start at the beginning of the production process.

Design is handed off...labour cost right there, factory get design and then cost start to build, first you have to buy fabric not 10 yards 1000 to 3000 depending how big a company you are. So for the small companies like for example Sombrio theory have the options of buying 1000 minimum order. If you went to use a nice fabric that doesn't fall apart then you go for 1500 if the mill will even do that for you and then you pay a surcharge as your not hitting the quantities there offering. SO now were in to $4 to $5 a yard so already were at the price you mentioned and this thing isn't even dyed yet. Now you have to hit the 500 yards per colour and get it dyed. ok so we have the fabric. lets add zippers at $1.20 yes.. each. now mesh, stretch rib, velcro, inner short with chamois if it even has one, front snaps. prints and other trims if there are any to brand the clothing and make it look different from every other brand that is doing the same. By now your looking at around $19 roughly for a mid level short. Then add in the tooling for things like custom branded snaps, silicone print, zipper pulls etc. Now you have the short we have all wanted for the sales team to go out there and do well with. We then move on to the sales sample stage.

Now these are specially made and no production line can be set up as its a small run of 200 or so. So were paying 3 times the actual labour cost to do this, yes very expensive samples that very skilled workers put together as they are from a sample room. Now we know China etc are growing at an excessive rate and their economy is booming so people are getting wealthy and people want more money all this economic boom is pushing labour prices up so in turn pushes up our costs.

So now we have the orders in and were going in to production with our $20 short. Now we add labour to that and then the factories profit margin. lets say were at $23 dollars give or take. Put it on the boat and ship it out, there is another cost. so landed its about $24 ahhh but wait we have tax and duty and of course the fees the government charge for so $1 ish per item that is coming in from China, were at 26 isn I think now and that is generous (this is all real rough estimates based on facts) so the manufacturing company TLD Sombrio Fox Royal One whoever it is now has to send to distributors so they want there cut, then they send to stores who also need to make some profit and then we can add sales tax so end price is about $110 and that is for a mid level short. Any change at manufacture like lets add a zip you can times it by 4 to get the added on cost to the end price.

So there you have it you don't make it for $10 and sell for $20 otherwise we would all be doing it and sales guys would be selling clothing like hot cakes. With manufacturing you can't win you do a cheap short it falls apart you get bad reviews and people complain you do a long lasting short people go on about price being too high. It is possible to find the happy medium but most brands cover this by offering a WHOLE RANGE all price pointed. So people are complaining about $150 shorts maybe you shouldn't be looking at those and you should be buying the $60 shorts with two pockets and no zippers, then they can bitch about how it doesn't have zippers on it.

In the case of Sombrio they were getting there and granted there fit and quality has suffered along the way but I feel sorry for those guys as the MTB market is very small and niche. I think them and Royal may well be the only brands just doing mtg gear and with comments like the above its no wonder they struggled. People dont want to pay for good gear but are quick to complain when it doesn't last. Small bike industry companies can't hit the minimums and big quantities that the big chain stores can hit couch as Gap Adidas etc etc so they pay a premium.

Granted Sombrio were nuts to do footwear which is even more expensive but you can't blame them for expensive clothing. Bike customers tend to spend their cash on hardwear not softwear and its always been this way. Sombrio weren't MX they weren't surf, they weren't sportswear and didn't do much road and probably because of there determination to stick it out in MTB and be "CORE" like Royal and no doubt some others I can't think off off the top of my head and unfortunately it didn't work out. A lot of the industry is struggling because of economy and customers that would rather pay for a pair of shorts from 4 years ago on close out. Im surprised there are as many clothing companies in MTB to be honest. MTB is a niche part of an niche overall cycling market.

Hopefully that will help inform people a little and shed some light on why this has been happening to a number of companies in our industry lately. Above is not entirely pointed at you gemini as there a are lots of people that are ill informed. There are a few people out there that want the best shorts just like the best $3000 wheels and then there is the rest of us thats why there are different price points for shorts. It is a real shame though I know I don't want to look like a MX rider all the time but it seems MX companies do well because there in other markets and the Core MTB companies struggle. Maybe MTB companies should go in to MX !! now theres a thought.
Click to expand...
 
demonprec

demonprec

Monkey
Nov 12, 2004
237
15
Whonnock BC Canada
stiksandstones said:
Fair play....and even more to add to this, but people get bored hearing about what it costs to run a business and produce product. I like your last comment about MTB companies getting into MX, I tend to often say that is what we did at TLD, Troy was catering to the MTB/BMX/bicycle market before tried MX (Edge all mountain helmet in early 90's, Daytona full face in 95', custom paint on more bike racers than moto, tees and hoodies for mtb crowd) he then made some lycra pieces in the mid 90's, 98' started to make some moto pants and jerseys that were first worn by MTBers. Funny when we get called out as a 'moto brand' when we started in bikes, still riding bikes.
Click to expand...
TLD makes some nice stuff , but it,s not ideal for MTB IMO it,s a compromise in some aspects with a company that caters to several markets . I have some MOTO shorts and i like then a lot , but my biggest issues are (A) no belt loops on the waist (B) no in between sizes that i have found ,(C) the ability to tighten up the waist for a in between size
i,m a 35" waist and wear a 36 as the 34,s are too tight ,

back in the day when company,s like ROACH and CORERAT where around they had the best products IMO due to it being more market specific item and they offered features of adjust ability in the waist .
 
stiksandstones

stiksandstones

Turbo Monkey
May 21, 2002
5,078
25
Orange, Ca
Our moto short is one of our first durable bike shorts, never meant for serious pedaling, and was a hybrid of moto gear and bike, we did that short a decade ago, and its gone through some slight changes, but its such a staple item in our line, that we keep it around. We have a complete line of trail gear, that is sounds like you have not seen our entire line of Ruckus, Skyline, Ace and Sprint. For 2014 we are focusing more on trail, adding some new categories and increasing our focus on bike. So, a blanket statement of 'not ideal for MTB' is simply wrong, you may not like our offerings, but please do not base our entire MTB collection off the 'moto' short which is a classic in the line.


demonprec said:
TLD makes some nice stuff , but it,s not ideal for MTB IMO it,s a compromise in some aspects with a company that caters to several markets . I have some MOTO shorts and i like then a lot , but my biggest issues are (A) no belt loops on the waist (B) no in between sizes that i have found ,(C) the ability to tighten up the waist for a in between size
i,m a 35" waist and wear a 36 as the 34,s are too tight ,

back in the day when company,s like ROACH and CORERAT where around they had the best products IMO due to it being more market specific item and they offered features of adjust ability in the waist .
Click to expand...
 
supercow

supercow

Monkey
Feb 18, 2009
969
130
This thread is not about TLD, though I would like to say just one thing about TLD.

For the love of pete, please keep your sizing consisent!

3 pairs of Moto shorts, all the same waist of 34" - one of which was baggy - couldn't keep it on my arse, One of them I couldn't actually get over my arse, and the other somewhere in the middle.
Similar experience with 2 pairs of GP pants - bought on off CRC, which was too tight. Sent it back and got the same one, same size, but that one fit.... go figure.

I can appreciate some variances - but its HOW much they vary, within the same product range that irks me.
 
stiksandstones

stiksandstones

Turbo Monkey
May 21, 2002
5,078
25
Orange, Ca
It is not about TLD, but...I will respond.

I know our sizing has been up or down depending on model year and short. I can only speak for the bicycle division which is what I run, but I do feel in the last 1-2 years we have made such huge improvement in every area (sizing, quality, consistency, etc) because we have built a dedicated bicycle team, focusing on our presence in bike and I know the moto short specifically, we have changed vendors more times than we would have liked but we found a vendor we are stoked with so, it should remain consistent.

I am not sure what big bad ass brands would say to a comment like this, but I am pretty transparent, tell it how it is and I am the self proclaimed worst marketing guy in the business-just keepin it real!

Finally, I am sorry you have had some sizing issues, it certainly is not by design, I can tell you I am grateful for each and every customer that buys anything from us, its a battlefield out there and we know customers are hard to come by...we ride a lot here, try to make the best products we can, but sometimes it doesnt work perfectly, and inconsistent sizing on moto shorts 'was' an issue.
Thanks!
Stik



supercow said:
This thread is not about TLD, though I would like to say just one thing about TLD.

For the love of pete, please keep your sizing consisent!

3 pairs of Moto shorts, all the same waist of 34" - one of which was baggy - couldn't keep it on my arse, One of them I couldn't actually get over my arse, and the other somewhere in the middle.
Similar experience with 2 pairs of GP pants - bought on off CRC, which was too tight. Sent it back and got the same one, same size, but that one fit.... go figure.

I can appreciate some variances - but its HOW much they vary, within the same product range that irks me.
Click to expand...
 
amishmatt

amishmatt

Turbo Monkey
Sep 21, 2005
1,267
398
Lancaster, PA
I have five pair of TLD shorts (1x moto, 1x Sprint, 2x Ruckus, 1x Skyline), all 34", and all are consistent in size. The Ruckus shorts are by far the best trail shorts I've ever had.
 
N

NAYR

Monkey
Jul 13, 2009
109
0
Truckee
Since TLD was mentioned, I just wanted to say that I am still using my TLD moto shorts from 2006 and that I have no plan to throw the shorts away any time soon. They are still my go to riding shorts (even for xc) and while they don't look new or pretty anymore, they have no holes and are comfortable. I'd say TLD makes great gear.

As a recent college grad, I haven't been able to afford new gear every year for the past few years(and still can't now) and dependability/longevity is the name of the game for me. Sombrio wasn't able to sell me on that, and considering the price of their products, I can't say that I'm not surprised they are going under.
 
demonprec

demonprec

Monkey
Nov 12, 2004
237
15
Whonnock BC Canada
stiksandstones said:
Our moto short is one of our first durable bike shorts, never meant for serious pedaling, and was a hybrid of moto gear and bike, we did that short a decade ago, and its gone through some slight changes, but its such a staple item in our line, that we keep it around. We have a complete line of trail gear, that is sounds like you have not seen our entire line of Ruckus, Skyline, Ace and Sprint. For 2014 we are focusing more on trail, adding some new categories and increasing our focus on bike. So, a blanket statement of 'not ideal for MTB' is simply wrong, you may not like our offerings, but please do not base our entire MTB collection off the 'moto' short which is a classic in the line.
Click to expand...

no i have not seen the trail stuff from TLD that i can recall . if the shorts has a crotch pad or a lycra liner i put it back on the rack and look elsewhere .

k just looked at the models you mentioned not bad , still ,missing belt loops and they come with a pad that i have to pay for that is gonna get thrown out . can i buy them without the pad ?? and when do they come out and what,s the suggested cost ? also do you guys offer a winter style jacket with arms big enough to fit padding under ??
 
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bdamschen

bdamschen

Turbo Monkey
Nov 28, 2005
3,378
157
Spreckels, CA
demonprec said:
no i have not seen the trail stuff from TLD that i can recall . if the shorts has a crotch pad or a lycra liner i put it back on the rack and look elsewhere .

k just looked at the models you mentioned not bad , still ,missing belt loops and they come with a pad that i have to pay for that is gonna get thrown out . can i buy them without the pad ?? and when do they come out and what,s the suggested cost ? also do you guys offer a winter style jacket with arms big enough to fit padding under ??
Click to expand...
random question- if they all have an adjustable waist band (velcro straps on the side, ratcheting clasp arcross the front, etc..) what is the need for belt loops?

also... what pad?
 
bdamschen

bdamschen

Turbo Monkey
Nov 28, 2005
3,378
157
Spreckels, CA
amishmatt said:
The Ruckus sorts come with a removable liner short with a pad. The pad sucks, it's huge, so it's wasted money to me, and I'd prefer to buy the short for cheaper without the liner.
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Huh... I guess that's what happens when I do all my shopping online, had no idea there was a liner.

I'm currently digging my skyline shorts for every day up the hill down the hill pedals. As for DH, I haven't been able to kill my moto shorts. I think I've had one pair since 07 that's still going strong.
 
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