Bad News for Ford and GM
- Thread starter N8 v2.0
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Looks like higher fuel costs are hitting the US auto manufacturers whose sales depend more on SUV and trucks which have dropped in sales.
If you add GM's and Ford's debt together its the a little bigger than the US deficit.
Comparing their debt to the deficit is kind of retarded, don't you think? How about we compare debt to debt?N8 said:If you add GM's and Ford's debt together its the a little bigger than the US deficit.
$500 billion vs. what? $6.5 TRILLION?
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Looks like they are going to have to start building reliable vehicles that people can afford. I was wondering how everyone was affording 45k SUVs that burn 500 a month in gas to commute to work. That's not a sustainable scenario.
As long as the car companies are willing to finance these things for 10 years, they might continue to sell 'em.Ridemonkey said:
Holy $hit are people dumb.
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Makes me laugh everyday. We have customers who come in and say they can afford $350-400 per month. They fill out a credit ap. and they only make $1200-1500 per monthRidemonkey said:
How the **** can they afford insurance and gas? On top of normal living expenses.
I make decent $$, commute half a mile to work, and I can barely afford my truck. I don't know how people with kids, 400k houses etc do it. Debt sucks.
I must say the writting has been on the wall for at least 5 years now. GM and FORd have very insular thinking management. THey are reluctant to change...even when they realize that their current practices cannot compete with the, cheapness of the Koreans, quality of the Japanese, and engineering of the Germans. GM curently loses $1600 per vehicle it makes in legacy costs. Ford's share price is $10...btw Toyota's is almost $80 with fewer models than GM or Ford. GM and Ford will have to file for bankruptcy within the next 2-3 years. GM has enough cash on hand to stay afloat for about 3 years. and its mortgage business is doing rather well. They Government will not allow the 2 big business to go under. GM employs over 900,000 workers, that is enough to negatively affect GDP and the employment rate.
Not to mention that about $1500 per car sold is paying for retirement benifits of somewhere in the realm of a million people (I could be wrong I heard someone at the office throw that number around) - it's the labor cost's that are killing Ford and GM - paying someone $20 an hour to put a bolt on, be off (paid mind you) for 2 months out of the year (typically June/July), and they get a min $5k bonus at the end of the year..............it's no wonder they are loosing money - the margins on cars are pretty slim from what I've heard.
I have many sources for my information since I work at a dealership(alot of which the general public does not get to hear about). Look at consumer ratings and reliability ratings it's all there for you to see for yourself. If you need me to do your homework for you let me know.gschuette said:
They are doing more wrong than just that. No cars are 100% american(only small custom builders). Most people don't realize that even when they buy most new chevy's that it's no more american than a toyota camry. The engine was built in mexico, the tranny in china, etc,etc....... Just look at the stickers on the car when it's on the lot, it tells you where the parts and labor originated.Andyman_1970 said:
People can cry all they want about the japanese killing the "american" brands but they are not. The American car makers are killing themselves with a lower quality product.. Toyota(my example since I work for them) is opening a new factory in texas for all toyota trucks. Camry's for example are made in indiana. So when the Gov. says toyota can only sell "X"# of cars in the U.S(which is not to far away) they are actually going to put tens of thousands of americans out of work.
They make crappy products. It was bound to happen.
would you lieke to elaborate on this please?Lexx D said:
Ridemonkey said:
i agree, i wouldn't say that i make decent $$ for a college educated father of 3 but i'm 6 months away from having no debt at all (car/credit) and i still can't imagine having a car payment over $200 a month. i'll never buy a new car, especially ford or GM...those things depreciate so much the second you drive it off the lot. there are plenty of idiots out there who don't know how to manage their $$ and will have to get rid of their nearly new vehicle at a loss just to keep from going into bankruptcy.....and i'll be waiting with CASH in hand
:devil:for the economy's sake...i hope ford/gm can pull this one out of the gutter, but it's unlikely. screw it! i'm buying a flux capacitor!
what he means is...you're little riced out cavalier will be one of manymotomike said:
:evil:
I don't know what you're talking about. I sold it yesterday.... :evil:manimal said:what he means is...you're little riced out cavalier will be one of many
*anecdotal evidence alert*
I did some sub-contracting work for Ford/Volvo a could of years ago and I'm not surprised that they are doing so badly. Here in Europe Ford actually build some good cars but the attitude of the company does not encourage good use of resources. The level of inertia and plain incompetence that I witnessed was scary. I eventually parted ways with them because management were upset that I wanted them to get things done. It's the first time I've had a contract terminated for being over-effective....
The Volvo people were good though.
I did some sub-contracting work for Ford/Volvo a could of years ago and I'm not surprised that they are doing so badly. Here in Europe Ford actually build some good cars but the attitude of the company does not encourage good use of resources. The level of inertia and plain incompetence that I witnessed was scary. I eventually parted ways with them because management were upset that I wanted them to get things done. It's the first time I've had a contract terminated for being over-effective....
The Volvo people were good though.
Ahhahahahaha. You thing it's bad there - try visiting Ford in Michigan some time. The vast amount of sloth and incompetence would astound you.fluff said:
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