[ZHendo]

Hey guys,

I've finally decided to call it quits on my finicky and sticky 2013 Boxxer World Cup, and I'm looking into options other than Rockshox and Fox, primarily for ease of service and frustration with my experience on both of their forks.

I have found a Dorado Expert locally for $650 brand new, and there's a 380 Ti available for about $100 more. I have heard outstanding things about both forks, but I also recognize that neither are without their own faults. The Dorado air spring can be difficult and it certainly isn't as light as other options I'm considering, and the Marzocchi is difficult to service with the new DBC cartridge design.

Do any of you have experience with both forks that might place one over the other as a better buy?

 

[rollertoaster]

The Dorado feels great and is easy to service, my main issue with it is leakage from the dust wipers. Blue mountain only allows bikes to hang by the front wheel which is a big no no for a Dorado. Because of this I find myself replacing the damper side seals often.

 

[jonKranked]

The Dorado feels great and is easy to service, my main issue with it is leakage from the dust wipers. Blue mountain only allows bikes to hang by the front wheel which is a big no no for a Dorado. Because of this I find myself replacing the damper side seals often.

at least they are finally allowing more than 1 person on a single chair

 

[rollertoaster]

Are they? It's about time.

 

[jonKranked]

they did when i was there back in october. now that launch is closed, i'll be at blue more often. blue's new jump line is pretty bitchin

 

[yd35]

Hey guys,

I've finally decided to call it quits on my finicky and sticky 2013 Boxxer World Cup, and I'm looking into options other than Rockshox and Fox, primarily for ease of service and frustration with my experience on both of their forks.

I have found a Dorado Expert locally for $650 brand new, and there's a 380 Ti available for about $100 more. I have heard outstanding things about both forks, but I also recognize that neither are without their own faults. The Dorado air spring can be difficult and it certainly isn't as light as other options I'm considering, and the Marzocchi is difficult to service with the new DBC cartridge design.

Do any of you have experience with both forks that might place one over the other as a better buy?

Haven't tried any of the forks, but I've read and heard enough feedback to know that the 380ti could be woefully undersprung for you. So the logical question would be: how much do you weigh? The 2014 380 comes stock with a 5.5 (medium) spring and it's gonna be too soft unless you are under 150 lbs. I'm around 175 and two guys that I ride with that weigh around the same have extra firm (7.7) springs which are two weights harder than the stock. The 2015 comes with a firm (6.5) spring, which could be alright, but it doesn't sound like that fork is in play for you. Of course you can buy the fork and then get a harder spring, but it sucks to spend big money on something and then have to shell out more. If you want to buy a ti spring, get your wallet out, cause they're about 300 bucks direct from Marzocchi. Steel springs are much more reasonable but also much heavier so you lose some of the low weight appeal of the 380.

In terms of the Dorado, I've never ridden it, so I can't give you any real feedback. But you can torsionally twist the crap out of the fork if you put the front wheel between your legs. Same test, my Fox 40 barely moves. I know, I know, it's a freaking parking lot test, and it may have zero relation to how it behaves on the trail. Hell, there may even be some secret benefit to that kind of flexiness, and I'm sure there are plenty of big, fast dudes that like the fork. Non-starter for me.

So, the point of my babbling is, get the 380, but make sure it has the right spring, preferably ti.

 

[djjohnr]

I've been on a Dorado Expert since December, coming off a 2009 40 RC2. I'm 175lbs right now and I've never felt that the fork was flexy when riding. The small bump sensitivity is on par with what my 40 felt like right after a rebuild; I chalk that up to the USD design. Overall damping is very good. I've opened it up twice to change the travel and so far it's proved easy to work on.

 

[Trasselkalle]

I can confirm that the 380 Ti is great with an extra firm spring at 165 lbs, so I'm with yd35 on the spring needed there. I'm probably in-between the 7.7 and 6.5 spring at my weight, but it's clearly a fork that benefits from a stiff spring if you want a bit more mid-stroke support. I'm sure I could learn to live with the 6.5 also, but glad I don't have to. It's easier to charge more than chill more. I believe the 2015 comes with a steel 7.7 also fwiw (and a 6.5 Ti as standard). I personally got mine with a 7.7 Ti right away with my bike, so I don't know for sure.

Never tried the Dorado, but also had that as an option. After some ppl having pressure build-up being a problem I decided to give the 380 Ti a shot instead. Supposedly, you can tell a pretty big difference in terms of flex vs the 380, at least on slacker bikes. I'm sure you could get used to that and even appreciate it maybe, so I don't think you can find an obvious and consensus winner between the two (or any other top-level fork for that matter).

 

[ZHendo]

I'm leaning more and more toward a Dorado in that case...I have a Marzocchi 350 CR that has been a great chassis with shockingly good compression damping for the price, but working on it (or attempting to) has be a bigger nightmare than with any other fork I have ever owned. The Marz is already more expensive than the Dorado by a significant margin, and at 175lbs geared up, I would likely need a stiffer spring. Most of the allure was the promise of lighter weight, but a steel spring will negate that benefit over the Dorado.

 

[Udi]

You're definitely going to need a firmer spring in the 380, so if you can't afford to add that to the price of the fork then I'd rule it out.

If I had to choose though, I'd get the 380 because it'll be noticeably stiffer torsionally and you get the benefit of a coil spring. The damper also sounds pretty dialed now, which was the one key things they failed at in the past. I've never found Marzocchis particularly good to work on (every other brand seems to put effort into making this easier), however in their defence they usually need it less often than other brands, and I doubt the DBC cart would need servicing regularly at all.

Manitou dampers are brilliant, but personally I think the 380 has chassis and spring benefits that you can't really reproduce on the Dorado.

 

[ZHendo]

I dug a bit more and found some great deals on the Marzocchi's as well...both are neck and neck for me again frankly, as I could afford a new spring if needed. I've heard that Manitou has the best feeling air spring design in the industry, which, though not as good as coil, is a good close second. The biggest question for me now is the chassis comparison - some seem to see the Manitou's lack of torsional stiffness as a very minor issue for anyone under 185lbs. I'm not going to have the opportunity to demo either fork, so its a tough call.

 

[ZHendo]

Update: just spoke with Marz, and the 380 became a lot less compelling. The steel spring adds a significant amount of weight, and the guy was saying that if you change the spring weight, you need to get the fork tuned as well - at a cost of $50 not including shipping. A new spring is at least $50, so just getting the fork to a place where it will be suitable for my weight will cost another $120+, not accounting for the time of having it sent to Marz. Lame.

 

[TrumbullHucker]

went to blue mountain 3 times last season and all the time we had two or three buddies on the chair

our bikes were behind us


hhngggg cant wait for blue

sucks about launch... it was coo

 

[rollertoaster]

I'm over 200lbs on a slack bike and yes you can flex the crap out of the Dorado in the parking lot, however I never felt it on the trail. It is definitely the smoothest air spring I've ever felt and that is without ever servicing the air spring. The damper is also very good. I got it to replace a 2012 boxxer WC, and other than weight it was a big upgrade.

 

[yd35]

Paging kidwoo.....

How bout dropping a TPC+ damper in a 40 chassis?

 

[schwaaa31]

Update: just spoke with Marz, and the 380 became a lot less compelling. The steel spring adds a significant amount of weight, and the guy was saying that if you change the spring weight, you need to get the fork tuned as well - at a cost of $50 not including shipping. A new spring is at least $50, so just getting the fork to a place where it will be suitable for my weight will cost another $120+, not accounting for the time of having it sent to Marz. Lame.

Has anyone gone up a spring or two without getting the fork re-tuned? I have a 2014 380 Ti with the stock spring and I know I have to go up to the firm, or possibly x firm, but I'd really like to not have to send it out to them. Is it really necessary to tune it for a spring change? Udi?

 

[gemini2k]

The Dorado feels great and is easy to service, my main issue with it is leakage from the dust wipers. Blue mountain only allows bikes to hang by the front wheel which is a big no no for a Dorado. Because of this I find myself replacing the damper side seals often.

Interesting, never had this problem. Hanging upside down for ~5minutes shouldn't cause it too leak. There might be something wrong with the way the seals were installed.

 

[ianjenn]

I am 212 LBS and ride like a bowling ball down the hill. The fork has some give in very rocky terrain it will "conform" to rocks snd seems to add traction. When I went to the 40 and tried to ride the same way it was like a ping pong ball. So the give does happen but the fork feels great. We ran one for close to 300,000 vertical feet without a service. She went in at the end of two years and got rebuilt....

 

[Trasselkalle]

Update: just spoke with Marz, and the 380 became a lot less compelling. The steel spring adds a significant amount of weight, and the guy was saying that if you change the spring weight, you need to get the fork tuned as well - at a cost of $50 not including shipping. A new spring is at least $50, so just getting the fork to a place where it will be suitable for my weight will cost another $120+, not accounting for the time of having it sent to Marz. Lame.

US Marz rep?

If it was, he was saying that to me but in the context of moving from a stock spring to a 7.7. As I live part (most) time in Europe I checked with the Swedish rep and they outright dispute that claim as the damper was designed to be the same for all springs. Part of the design goals with the 380 was to make the damper fit with any rider and any spring, and while I'm sure it was an estimate they also said that for 95% of riders on all levels - even WC - the original damper is ideal. They specifically recommended NOT to change the damper.

None of the ppl I've spoken with have done anything to the damper and feel super-happy with the fork on a 7.7 spring. I haven't had mine very long yet, but I certainly also feel that way.

Yes, I am talking about a Ti spring but as the US Marz rep was saying very similar things I suspect he's fishing for work rather than actually helping.

 

[Udi]

The steel spring adds a significant amount of weight, and the guy was saying that if you change the spring weight, you need to get the fork tuned as well

Yeah I highly doubt you need to revalve the damper for higher spring rates, particularly since the new damper has a larger adjustment range than their old forks. Sounds like you spoke to someone that doesn't really know what they're talking about. Out of curiosity what's the real weight difference between the 380 Ti with steel spring vs. the Dorado?

I doubt you'd go wrong with the Dorado anyway though, the topend suspension from major manufacturers is all quite good these days. There is only one real standout from the rest, and as we all know that's the RUX.

mmmm. yeahhh.

 

[TrumbullHucker]

can someone inform me about the rux joke? i am unaware

 

[jonKranked]

went to blue mountain 3 times last season and all the time we had two or three buddies on the chair

our bikes were behind us


hhngggg cant wait for blue

sucks about launch... it was coo

let me know when you go, might be able to come up and join you for some runs

 

[TrumbullHucker]

let me know when you go, might be able to come up and join you for some runs

for sure dude! might try the DH race there too

 

[ZHendo]

US Marz rep?

If it was, he was saying that to me but in the context of moving from a stock spring to a 7.7. As I live part (most) time in Europe I checked with the Swedish rep and they outright dispute that claim as the damper was designed to be the same for all springs. Part of the design goals with the 380 was to make the damper fit with any rider and any spring, and while I'm sure it was an estimate they also said that for 95% of riders on all levels - even WC - the original damper is ideal. They specifically recommended NOT to change the damper.

None of the ppl I've spoken with have done anything to the damper and feel super-happy with the fork on a 7.7 spring. I haven't had mine very long yet, but I certainly also feel that way.

Yes, I am talking about a Ti spring but as the US Marz rep was saying very similar things I suspect he's fishing for work rather than actually helping.

I just spoke with one of the guys in the Marz USA office, not sure of his name. He was saying that the damper is set up to work with a medium spring, which is the one included in the fork. Ti vs steel spring shouldn't make a difference on that front, and I don't think the guys at Marz USA are fishing for work - they rebuild my 350 for free and at no shipping cost to me when I first picked it up, so it doesn't seem they're just trying to drag in extra cash.

 

[IH8Rice]

let me know when you go, might be able to come up and join you for some runs

you ride dh still? last time we were supposed to ride Blue, you didnt show up.

 

[jonKranked]

you ride dh still? last time we were supposed to ride Blue, you didnt show up.

wife got sick, she was pregnant at the time.

 

[Trasselkalle]

I just spoke with one of the guys in the Marz USA office, not sure of his name. He was saying that the damper is set up to work with a medium spring, which is the one included in the fork. Ti vs steel spring shouldn't make a difference on that front, and I don't think the guys at Marz USA are fishing for work - they rebuild my 350 for free and at no shipping cost to me when I first picked it up, so it doesn't seem they're just trying to drag in extra cash.

Maybe not fishing for work then, which is good to hear.

I'm still seriously doubting what he's saying based on what the Swedish rep was saying, everyone I've spoken with who ride the 7.7, and my own feeling thus far with it. To each their own, and you should go with whatever you feel comfortable believing in. As Udi was saying, it could still be that the guy you're speaking with doesn't know his stuff as well as he should.

Edit: I've sent a question to Marz HQ asking for clarification. I'll report back if they come back to me with an explanation.

 

[daisycutter]

I have both forks. I find the Dorado to be very smooth for an air spring fork. I loved how it rode most of last year however when I sent the fork in for servicing I was never able to get it to feel as good. Not sure what the issue was but no adjustments I made got it back to that butter smooth feeling it had pre-servicing. I am going to send out the Dorado to see what the issue is because the fork rode really well most of the summer.



The 380 Ti is great fork. At 195 lbs; I had my fork setup with a 7.7 Ti spring and have had no issues since. The seals take a while to set in but feel great after a few days of riding.


Both forks are great but I got to give the edge to the 380 Ti at this point.

 

[no skid marks]

Both forks are great but I got to give the edge to the 380 Ti at this point.

Keep talking.

 

[Lelandjt]

can someone inform me about the rux joke? i am unaware

Someone on here was kinda obsessed with the Rux and kept trying to talk themselves into buying one but never did. It gets mentioned in a positive light but no one has actually ridden or owned it so it's kind of a unicorn.

 

[Lelandjt]

To hang by the front wheel is a big no no for a Dorado.

I hadn't heard this. Care to elaborate? I can't figure out why this would be harder on the bushings and seals than with a right side up design. If anything don't USDs have more bushing overlap so they should handle it better?

 

[ianjenn]

The seals like the oil to be on them if you hang them outside down they can dry out and allow oil past. Not sure a 5 minute ride to the top of hill would count versus having it in your garage 6 days a week in the same fashion.....

 

[Trasselkalle]

I heard back from Marzocchi HQ now and they say that the shim stack is designed to work with any spring stiffness. Of course, with a technical expert (they add) an even more personalized and optimized shim stack may be obtained (regardless which spring you are on).

Thus, the US Marz rep claiming that the shim stack is designed for the stock spring is plain wrong. Subsequently, claiming you have to rebuild it for a stiffer spring is also wrong. It may not be intentional, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, but the only reason to re-work your shim stack is if you get the right spring and still have an issue that needs the attention (and your testing of the results) of a technical expert. Being able to fine-tune with the help of a tuning expert ofc applies to all shim stacks, regardless of brand, so that part isn't anything unique to the 380.

 

[IH8Rice]

I heard back from Marzocchi HQ now and they say that the shim stack is designed to work with any spring stiffness.

they said the same thing with the 888 so it doesnt surprise me that the 380 is no different.

 

[schwaaa31]

That's good to hear. Is the only place to get the firm or x firm ti springs direct from Marz? 300 clams is a lot of jablingy.

 

[Trasselkalle]

That's good to hear. Is the only place to get the firm or x firm ti springs direct from Marz? 300 clams is a lot of jablingy.

Not sure - I got my fork with a 7.7 Ti when I bought my bike (and they got it directly from Marz with that spring).

 

[ZHendo]

That's irritating to hear...you'd think Marz USA would know their own products a little better. I asked around at a shop and apparently the 2015 380s include a firm Ti spring, but the 2014 includes a medium Ti spring and firm steel spring. $300 is the number I've heard just about everywhere for the Ti springs, so that was another reason I ended up straying from the idea of getting a 380.

Another thing worth mentioning here is the cost of the low friction SKF seals that they use. $70, seriously? I looked into getting SKF seals for my 350 and was shocked to hear that price - more than 3x what you can find a set of Pike seals for from Rockshox.

 

[blindboxx2334]

Another thing worth mentioning here is the cost of the low friction SKF seals that they use. $70, seriously?

i said the same thing in another thread, and i got attacked for being 'cheap'. that price is stupid high.

 

[Trasselkalle]

That's irritating to hear...you'd think Marz USA would know their own products a little better. I asked around at a shop and apparently the 2015 380s include a firm Ti spring, but the 2014 includes a medium Ti spring and firm steel spring. $300 is the number I've heard just about everywhere for the Ti springs, so that was another reason I ended up straying from the idea of getting a 380.

Another thing worth mentioning here is the cost of the low friction SKF seals that they use. $70, seriously? I looked into getting SKF seals for my 350 and was shocked to hear that price - more than 3x what you can find a set of Pike seals for from Rockshox.

Yeah, that sounds like I had read it in terms of the springs and 2014 vs 2015. Good to have that confirmed. Actually, I heard it as the 2015 included a steel x-firm also.

Regarding the SKF seals, you can ofc buy cheaper non-SKF seals for normal money also. However, the SKF seals clearly produce less friction. 'Worth it' or not is up to each owner to decide.

 

[blindboxx2334]

no doubt about that, i remember the video, night and day difference.

while i understand its probably a different desn/mat'l from fox's skf 'low friction' seals, they are twice as much.. i know some people have no issue dropping 70+ bones on a set of seals, but that i find it absolutely absurd.