Supposedly this headset uses that (even though it says shimz): https://canecreek.com/product/viscoset/
BB coming loose?!
- Thread starter canadmos
- Start date
Cane Creek sent me a new BB under warranty, so props to them. It hasn't come loose after a bunch of rides, but I have the preload set feather light; one other thing I noticed is that even a fraction of a nudge on the preload ring would cause the bearings to bind majorly.
Going to replace the bb this weekend and see if that changes. Maybe the mysterious creek will go away too...
Going to replace the bb this weekend and see if that changes. Maybe the mysterious creek will go away too...
did they give an explanation of the issue?
No not really, just said that sometimes there are bad apples that get through so here is a new one.
So I replaced the drive side BB last night and.... the new one feels exactly the same.
I fiddled around with them and even the non-drive side is crunchy, if I apply any preload to the inner race of the bearing. The following paint photochop illustrates this with the red/green arrows. While holding the BB cup in my hand, I pressed and spun the bearing with my fingers; while applying load towards to the threaded side, the rotation does not feel smooth. While spinning the bearing and "pulling" away lightly, towards to the crank side, the bearing is super smooth. All four of the BB cups that I now have do this. On the BB cup that I replaced, if I applied enough load with my fingers, the entire bearing/cup would lock and spin - I have a hunch this is why it keeps coming loose, no matter how tight the bb cup is.
Is it possible that the inner race is touching the BB cup itself, when load is applied? Reason I might suggest this, is that when looking at the backside of the bearing, there doesn't appear to be any space between the inner race and the BB cup (I don't have feeler gauges to actually test) and I can't see the edge of outer diameter of the inner race.
Futher to this point, Hambini conveniently took one of these Hellbender 70 BBs apart in a recent video. He finds there is no lip or spacer in the BB cup, so if I interpret what he says, if the bearing is pressed in all the way, it will bind on the cup? If this is true, are these just being assembled wrong with the bearing pressed in all the way or without any sort of spacer? Seems like a dumb simple thing for Cane Creek to miss, considering majority of their business is built around bearings?
13:06 for the Cane Creek bearing removal
What do our e-engineers and real engineers think? @Westy ?
I fiddled around with them and even the non-drive side is crunchy, if I apply any preload to the inner race of the bearing. The following paint photochop illustrates this with the red/green arrows. While holding the BB cup in my hand, I pressed and spun the bearing with my fingers; while applying load towards to the threaded side, the rotation does not feel smooth. While spinning the bearing and "pulling" away lightly, towards to the crank side, the bearing is super smooth. All four of the BB cups that I now have do this. On the BB cup that I replaced, if I applied enough load with my fingers, the entire bearing/cup would lock and spin - I have a hunch this is why it keeps coming loose, no matter how tight the bb cup is.
Is it possible that the inner race is touching the BB cup itself, when load is applied? Reason I might suggest this, is that when looking at the backside of the bearing, there doesn't appear to be any space between the inner race and the BB cup (I don't have feeler gauges to actually test) and I can't see the edge of outer diameter of the inner race.
Futher to this point, Hambini conveniently took one of these Hellbender 70 BBs apart in a recent video. He finds there is no lip or spacer in the BB cup, so if I interpret what he says, if the bearing is pressed in all the way, it will bind on the cup? If this is true, are these just being assembled wrong with the bearing pressed in all the way or without any sort of spacer? Seems like a dumb simple thing for Cane Creek to miss, considering majority of their business is built around bearings?
13:06 for the Cane Creek bearing removal
What do our e-engineers and real engineers think? @Westy ?
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Certainly weird. No new bearing should feel crunchy and that feeling could be the inner race rubbing on the cup. But that would be a really really dumb design, without seeing a cut-away view of the cuts hard to say, but no good design should allow for that. What you are describing also sounds like a set of bearings that were pressed in backwards. I assume that BB bearings are some shallow angular contact bearing that can take some side load in one direction but will not in the other. Is it possible for you to get the bearing part number to see if it was installed correctly?
Example:
Example:
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The angular contact bearings I saw in BBs so far had a red seal on the "load side" and a black seal on the "inner side".
For the record, I like the Rotor BSA30 BB a lot so far. We'll see how long the stainless steal bearings will last.
For the record, I like the Rotor BSA30 BB a lot so far. We'll see how long the stainless steal bearings will last.
@Westy these bearings are labeled as Enduro S6806 LLB.
These: https://www.endurobearings.com/products/bearings/stainless-steel/
Perhaps I should shoot Enduro an email and show them this. Just doesn't seem right that both BBs I have are gritty with any preload.
These: https://www.endurobearings.com/products/bearings/stainless-steel/
Perhaps I should shoot Enduro an email and show them this. Just doesn't seem right that both BBs I have are gritty with any preload.
Tried to take pictures to show how tight the inner race is up against the bb cup. I can't fit a sliver of paper between the inner race and the cup.
Notice how you can't see the outer edge of the inner race? It must be rubbing on the bb cup with even the lightest preload...
Notice how you can't see the outer edge of the inner race? It must be rubbing on the bb cup with even the lightest preload...
Can you push the bearing out a little?
Not 30 mm though.
I took my bike apart for ye ole annual spring lube and grease job.
And found that the damn drive BB is loose again.
Time to bring up the issue with Cane Creek again.
I also noticed that on the drive side, with the BB spacer and ISCG bracket, that the BB on that side has about half the thread engagement as compared to the non-drive side. Thoughts - could that coupled with the binding bearing be why the drive side BB always spins loose, no matter how many ugga duggas I give it?
And found that the damn drive BB is loose again.
Time to bring up the issue with Cane Creek again.I also noticed that on the drive side, with the BB spacer and ISCG bracket, that the BB on that side has about half the thread engagement as compared to the non-drive side. Thoughts - could that coupled with the binding bearing be why the drive side BB always spins loose, no matter how many ugga duggas I give it?
Don't use press fit bottom brackets they said. Threaded is superior they said.
I have 5 years and 1,000+ miles on the OEM press fit BB on my SB5. Never made a peep, and is still silky smooth even though I've never done a single thing for it.
Not saying they can't be a problem, but anecdotally speaking, it's been great for me.
I'm so glad my 3yo OUTDATED TECHNOLOGY-LADEN FRAME has press fit BB. Moar glad now, I think.
Hope this helps, canadmos.
Hope this helps, canadmos.
n=1 is not a statistically significant sample size.
I've had two problem free press in bikes. I do have to replace my threaded Durable (LOL) Unified BB about every ten months.
I am well enough versed in statistics to know that 1 is not a significant sample size, hence the "anecdotally speaking, it's been great for me".
my 3T and BMC have been creak and problem free since install. I even ride the 3T too. Shimano BB in one and FSA in the other, neither over $35. Both plastic shell doo-dads, but both designed properly.
Had a raceface which I chased creaks on, but that was 30mm spindle in a BB92, which is not gud.
I'd still take a BSA over a press-fit, but I think pressfit is OK if designed correctly.
Had a raceface which I chased creaks on, but that was 30mm spindle in a BB92, which is not gud.
I'd still take a BSA over a press-fit, but I think pressfit is OK if designed correctly.
ISIS uses threaded BBs.
@Adventurous failed to mention that for 2 out of those 5 years the bike was in storage while he toured NA in his camper 
And the other three years were riding like a bitch@Adventurous failed to mention that for 2 out of those 5 years the bike was in storage while he toured NA in his camper
<3
When the bearing binds, the whole thing spins clockwise, which is the way it loosens.
When the bearing is spinning freely, the rotation on the outer race is the opposite way that the cranks are spinning...if I'm visualizing it correctly, no? So when not binding, the thing should never be able to loosen itself - and no, I'm not coasting down every trail back pedaling.
some questions.....
how old is your frame?
how many different bb's have you gone through on it?
how often do you pull your BB for cleaning/service?
are you using the spacer sleeve with the BB?
have you tried another set of cranks with the bb?
how old is your frame?
how many different bb's have you gone through on it?
how often do you pull your BB for cleaning/service?
are you using the spacer sleeve with the BB?
have you tried another set of cranks with the bb?
True, did not consider bearings binding.When the bearing binds, the whole thing spins clockwise, which is the way it loosens.
When the bearing is spinning freely, the rotation on the outer race is the opposite way that the cranks are spinning...if I'm visualizing it correctly, no? So when not binding, the thing should never be able to loosen itself - and no, I'm not coasting down every trail back pedaling.
It is the other way around, right? Crank rotation "loosens" the BB cups while pedaling.
My FSAs would blow up at about the six month mark.
Since once is threaded right hand and one left, any pedaling induced torque would tend to tighten one and loosen the other. That said, I don't believe that pedaling-induced torque is going to unscrew a bottom bracket under any circumstances.
Think about it for a moment again.
Any forward pedaling-induced torque will tend to tighten the right (left-hand thread) cup and loosen the left (right-hand thread) cup.
Negative ghostrider.
Please support your assertion.