Oprah Winfrey.
Be a victim: Claim disability and sell drugs...
- Thread starter manimal
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Yeah, I can't really be this big of a self righteous douche. I mean, that’s just not possible. F it, I Know this is bull****, there is no way what I have proposed will ever work. Were not robots, were humans. WE have wants and needs & feelings. From an economic standpoint what we are doing is really wrong. But from a "help thy Neighbor" standpoint we should do more.
Its unfortunate not all issues are black or white
In other words, I don't have a leg to stand on.
:waveswhiteflag:
I stand corrected.
At age six, Winfrey moved to an inner city ghetto in Milwaukee, Wisconsin with her mother, who was less supportive and encouraging than her grandmother. Winfrey has stated that she was molested by her cousin, uncle, and a family friend, starting when she was 9.
That's very Libertarian of you.
cry me a river. your view of reality is so distorted that i actually feel sorry for you. no, scratch that, i don't.
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/histinc/h01ar.html
going from the above ohio nailed it on the head: your "middle class" family is firmly between the 80th ($91k) and 95th ($166k) percentiles.
poor people are people, too. get your "middle class" fingernails dirty and perhaps one day you'll come to realize this as well, instead of viewing them as some inconvenient abstract nuisance from your right wing white bread bully pulpit.
this subject has been studied quite extensively...
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=income+distribution+by+family+background&hl=en&c2coff=1&safe=off&client=safari&rls=en&pwst=1&um=1&oi=scholart
PM me if you're interested with an email address and i'll send you the pdf of the fifth article there, chosen since it's relatively recent. here's its abstract:
Ermisch and Francesconi said:
Ever spent time in a bad neighborhood? I don't mean you drove thru Oakland to go to Hayward, but actually spent hours working, socializing, and just living there?
I have. I have volunteered many hours in the inner-city. It can be tough just knowing I could be robbed or shot for just walking down the street. Having to pick up and drop off the kids I was coaching because their parents are either working double shifts or are too stoned to take care of their own children. And of course, dealing with all the yelling and screaming and the other BS which comes with dealing with inner city people.
Now imagine being a kid growing up there. Trying to feed yourself, go to school, and survive in this kind of environment.
I don't know much about you, but I know you live in a decent neighborhood with a good family structure. You might not think you have a lot, considering how you tried to worm free stuff from my shop, but consider this story: I was volunteering in Harlem and I mentioned that my family owned a house in the Bronx, (cost $28,000 in 1971), and everyone there thought my family was rich. When I mentioned we also owned two cars, Japanese subcompacts, that sealed it: we were definitely rich.
Now I don't expect you to donate 10% of your salary to charity or move into the projects in Hunters Point. But to talk about how anyone can improve their lives with a little hard work is so immature it is laughable, especially when you have all the advantages a suburban kid might possess.
Is it just me or do some people see Libertarian as a synonym for Social Darwinist?
You are almost certainly in the top 5% of the richest people on the planet you dumb motherfvcker.
Hey, BTW who collects the massive pile of trash your consumer lifestyle and your mouth produces every week in your libertarian society?
I admit I am way wrong Sorry for pissing you all off
Maybe...
I have never set foot in a ghetto, wouldn't ever want to. I really doubt my family is in the richest fiver percent. The info your referring to was done in 2000. A lot, I repeat a lot of change has happened in WC since then.
But thats beside the point.
What I said last night was inexcusable. Sorry for rambling on with arrogant an socially unacceptable bullsh!t.
I dont really believe half of what I said. Most of what I said is in an Essay I am tuning in today. Funny to see teachers reaction.
I could prolly give Rush Limbaugh & Don Imus a run for their money.
But thats beside the point.
What I said last night was inexcusable. Sorry for rambling on with arrogant an socially unacceptable bullsh!t.
I dont really believe half of what I said. Most of what I said is in an Essay I am tuning in today. Funny to see teachers reaction.
I could prolly give Rush Limbaugh & Don Imus a run for their money.
Mate stick around, more than a few posters in this forum know what they're talking about and you'll learn a bit. Next time you put your 2 cents worth in though, just make sure you know what you're going on about. Tearing noobs into bite size pieces is a national sport here.
Tearing noobs into bite size pieces is a national sport here.
Meh, it's the debate forum. Grow a thick skin because you'll get ripped on pretty regularly. I've been torn up in a couple arguments, eventually learned to stay out of what I don't have a clue about
, but I regularly read in here even if I only contribute occasionally.Claiming your family makes less than 120k per year and thus, you are in touch with the lower class masses is so far out of touch with reality that it's important to actually examine your opinions and compare them to the reality of the world. Believe it or not, your life was handed to you on a silver platter with all the trimmings. The only difference between you and the supremely wealthy is a trust fund and a few nice cars. You've got opportunities for education. You can pursue any vocation that comes flutters through your mind. You don't have to worry about food, bills or getting assaulted going to the grocery store. You will get (or have gotten) an apartment at some point and if you absolutely crash and burn and can't pay your rent, you aren't going to end up homeless on the street.
That's not the way the world works. When you're broke, completely uneducated and have no safety net whatsoever, you can't just say "work harder" and assume that will provide them a college education or better opportunities.That "paltry" $6,000 it costs for an associates degree isn't so paltry when you consider that it's TWO YEARS RENT in a low-rent apartment.
So you come out of a well-to-do high school where you received a solid education and go to college. College isn't so bad, is it? Courses aren't so hard. Why can't everyone do this? Well what if you had no good education foundation to start with? How much harder would you have to work in college algebra if you'd never had a decent math course your whole life? Add to that, the fact that you're already struggling to get by day-to-day - so where does the time come from?
I'm not trying to rip on you, you just need to gain a broader view. A lot of privileged people are under this delusion that their realities are everyone's realities. Just take the blinders off. It's not to say the welfare system isn't massively screwed up and abused - because it is. But "f**k it, just work harder" is an ignorant statement.
Many of you are guilty of getting off the topic for the last 3 pages.
I'm interested in the responses to manimals questions......let's get back to that, shall we?
I'm interested in the responses to manimals questions......let's get back to that, shall we?
Actually, this is right on topic. RR suggested that manimal's observations would be fixed by just bagging the whole welfare system. That comment has been responded to.
I wholeheartedly agree with manimal. Drug testing should be mandatory for all people receiving welfare. Testing positive shouldn't result in immediate revocation of the aid, but it should result in a mandatory rehabilitation program.
I wholeheartedly agree with manimal. Drug testing should be mandatory for all people receiving welfare. Testing positive shouldn't result in immediate revocation of the aid, but it should result in a mandatory rehabilitation program.
Okay, but wouldn't wouldn't a better welfare system also result in a stimulation of the economy from more people getting jobs? Cutting the amount paid out is only part of the benefit. Less unemployment = more money earned = more money spent. That brings a lot of benefits to the local economies, above and beyond simple gov't budgeting problems.Silver said:
I'd be willing to bet that the money de-frauded out of the government from the top end of town through tax-avoidance, dodgy expense accounts, bogus front companies and creative accounting vastly dwarfs anything that happens in the ghetto.
Christ I bet there isn't a bloke amongst us that hasn't ripped the government off via our taxes. I know I have, at least Mrs VB has, she's the master. I don't know how she did it last year but we didn't pay a cracker in income tax and actually got $100 or so back. Still scratching my head over that one.
Christ I bet there isn't a bloke amongst us that hasn't ripped the government off via our taxes. I know I have, at least Mrs VB has, she's the master. I don't know how she did it last year but we didn't pay a cracker in income tax and actually got $100 or so back. Still scratching my head over that one.
I have GOT to learn how to work a dildo better....
I've got an accounting friend like that. The guy literally keeps every receipt for every single thing he buys - groceries, everything. He doesn't pay one single cent in income tax each year, and he's making a sh*t-ton of money off of his investment properties. Ridiculous. He looks forward to audits because, as he says, he's "smarter, better prepared and knows more tax law than the auditor."
RR, stop giving libertarians a bad name. If you talk to real, thoughtful libertarians as I have, perhaps their greatest concern is the poverty and suffering created by the government's incomprehensibly complex web of subsidies and taxes. We are not living in a world where you can say "get a job hippy" to the poor. In fact, before we stop providing a basic safety net (and i'm not talking about socialized healthcare or expansive redistribution, just social insurance for the very worst off) we should stop providing subsidies to America's richest through corporate welfare, protective tariffs, quotas, immigration barriers, and sweetheart contracts.
While I'm not a fan of aggressively progressive taxes, regressive ones are hardly the solution to this country's problems.
While I'm not a fan of aggressively progressive taxes, regressive ones are hardly the solution to this country's problems.
If you're going to talk taxes....this is the only way to go: http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?JServSessionIdr007=7lo93iowd3.app5b
No...those guys jumped on him like rabid dogs. That wasn't a series of resonses, that was "tearing noobs into bite-sized bits" for entertainment purposes. I realize his opinion may not be popular with the 98% liberal population at the P&WN, but his opinion is no less valid because he's advocating personal responsibility over federal assistance.
I agree with Cosby.
this thread started off very well & made me address my white guilt (i refuse to have any).
RR you let me down: you must find the stamina to froth for a few more months.
SS: sorry to read about your chipped teeth.
fwiw, raised by single parent in poverty (he still is) & i didn't break north of the poverty line until i enlisted in the military, and even then it was barely above. since then i've done well, though. am i an exception?
RR you let me down: you must find the stamina to froth for a few more months.
SS: sorry to read about your chipped teeth.
fwiw, raised by single parent in poverty (he still is) & i didn't break north of the poverty line until i enlisted in the military, and even then it was barely above. since then i've done well, though. am i an exception?
It was more along the lines of finding a woman who knows how to work tax code and keeping her happy...but thanks for the concern.
The difference between you and me is that I can and will accept that I have, & will be in the future, wrong.
can i gets free moneis since im irish-american 3gen apartment dweller?
add to that one of us wears jodhpurs & carries a riding crop.
i tan evenly, so the determination should therefore be evident.
I love it when you speak in tongues...it's so eloquent.
The problem with the rehab Idea is that it is very expensive. We put my uncle thought it a few years ago (whole extended family did) cost over 40k, then he fell off the wagon & OD. You have to want to recover & plenty of addicts live in such a ****ty situation that all they have is the drug & they don't really want to recover.
You need to set up a strikes law, or tie it into the felony three strike law.
If you have three felonies you are no longer eligible for social programs.
We need to mandate or encourage birth control, A child who is mothered by a 14-19 y/0 is no good for anyone, it just perpetuates the problem. Person under 19 is often not mature enough to take care of themselves, let alone a child.
Its the gift that keeps on giving.
Free night school vocational education could help out significantly. Cut the dollars spent on welfare & food stamps & move it adult education. Once a person learns a trade they can often do much better for themselves.
People may argue that this undercuts people but it can provide them with a better education & much higher income.
Drug offense should be taken much more seriously. Forget about pot. Lets think Herion, Crack, Meth.
You need to set up a strikes law, or tie it into the felony three strike law.
If you have three felonies you are no longer eligible for social programs.
We need to mandate or encourage birth control, A child who is mothered by a 14-19 y/0 is no good for anyone, it just perpetuates the problem. Person under 19 is often not mature enough to take care of themselves, let alone a child.
Its the gift that keeps on giving.
Free night school vocational education could help out significantly. Cut the dollars spent on welfare & food stamps & move it adult education. Once a person learns a trade they can often do much better for themselves.
People may argue that this undercuts people but it can provide them with a better education & much higher income.
Drug offense should be taken much more seriously. Forget about pot. Lets think Herion, Crack, Meth.
What the hell kind of libertarian are you? Are you actually suggesting that the government needs to put more people in prison for victimless crimes? You realize that we already have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world right? And that a significant number of those people are in on non-violent drug offenses?
sorry, i thought i read somewhere you were a libertarian.
would you be a penn gillette lib, or a trying-to-get-laid-so-i-bandy-about-this-en-vogue-(to-me-anyway)-term lib?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian
Libertarianism is a philosophy based on the principle that individuals should be allowed complete freedom of action as long as they do not infringe on the same freedom of others. This is usually taken by libertarians to mean that no one may initiate coercion, which they define as the use of physical force, the potential use (threat) of such, or the use of fraud to prevent individuals from having willful use of their person or property. ...
^ I am that kind of Libertarian
Selling of highly addictive drugs infringe on freedom of the addict. The addict become, effectively, a slave to the drug.
Prison should not be a nice as it is. They should be similar to that of Mexico, or Club Gtam
This makes Squirrel laugh.
People should be held responsible for their decision to shoot smack, but the consequences need not include jail time.
I could care less if your doing "smack" but if your dealing it, well...
while i don't totally disagree with this (i do feel that some drug offenses like the herbal variety shouldn't be an incarcerating end for those caught by the powers that be.)
there's a fine line to draw here.
crackheads and meth users etc... who end up destitute (and even before that point.) do whatever it takes to get the stuff.
that means a wide assortment of criminal activity becomes the norm for them.
any time spent behind bars means they're not out there carjacking, breaking into our homes/cars etc....
it does suck though that we have so many in lock up for narcotics, when the courts continually slap serious criminals like drunk drivers, pedophiles and even murderers on the wrist. while someone busted with an 8-ball is rotting away in a cell.
Rehab was expensive because you and your family are rich. Poor people have other ways to try to get sober...
I have. For a couple years at the end of uni and right after. I think the year I got out of college I made something like $2500....
