On sealed bearings there's the number, followed by letters. Ie. 6802 2rs or 17286 vrs. The numbers are the size, but what's the significance of the letters? Does it make a difference in the seal or is it a manufacturer label or something?
Bearing knowledge
- Thread starter Electric_City
- Start date
Single seal, dual seal, angle type.
Ask NSK
Ask NSK
https://www.rushsports.co.za/blogs/news/27943363-what-do-those-codes-on-a-bearing-mean - This is helpful.
-Brett
-Brett
Best bearings to replace frame bearings with? I know there is a lot of hate on enduro bearings, and my bearings on my banshee rune are about due.
Drop the coin on SKF or NSK bearing IMO. In my experience, they last much longer than premium MTB bearings.
The shit thing is a lot of manufacturers are starting to use custom race extenders or bearing sizes that aren't standard industrial bearing sizes so you're stuck using low end rubbish in borderline applications.
If you want cheap, you can find many sizes from rc websites for about $1 a piece (Avidrc). They are abec 3/5 and most are 2rs.
-Brett
-Brett
I once asked a bike shop for Enduro bearings and the shop owner went on a crazy rant about how Enduro bearings were a load of shit and were just Japanese bearings rebranded for the bike industry.
I found his rant odd as I used to fit them to a number of locations on larger forklifts and they lasted very well in some pretty tough environments.
Poor alignment and a lack of rotation would probably have more of an effect on lifespan over the brand of bearings.
I'm no bearingologist but I'd guess that axially loading a bearing through misalignment would reduce the effectiveness of the seal. My old Corsair was insane for misalignment and it killed two sets of bearings in probably less than 50hrs of dry riding, some of that time would have been walking time too as it snapped pivot bolts and the shitty Hope axles of the day.
Cleanliness can be a problem too, water can't penetrate a seal unless it's farked, if you add a surfactant it has a better chance of getting in past a dying or dry seal.
I found his rant odd as I used to fit them to a number of locations on larger forklifts and they lasted very well in some pretty tough environments.
Poor alignment and a lack of rotation would probably have more of an effect on lifespan over the brand of bearings.
I'm no bearingologist but I'd guess that axially loading a bearing through misalignment would reduce the effectiveness of the seal. My old Corsair was insane for misalignment and it killed two sets of bearings in probably less than 50hrs of dry riding, some of that time would have been walking time too as it snapped pivot bolts and the shitty Hope axles of the day.
Cleanliness can be a problem too, water can't penetrate a seal unless it's farked, if you add a surfactant it has a better chance of getting in past a dying or dry seal.
Eh, for frames you don't wanna use the common industrial ball bearings because those are meant to spin quite fast whereas frame bearing rarely make a full rotation (most of the time the rotate less than 90 degrees back and forth). Full complement (MAX) bearings are the best choice for the application because more balls mean the load is being spread on more contact points so the races last longer. The problem is that only a couple of companies make them, one of them being Enduro.
Max bearings filled with low washout grease and regular maintenance is what I would recommend.
Max bearings filled with low washout grease and regular maintenance is what I would recommend.
Pretty good.
The grease ports on the "normal" bearings in my DHR were also great.
Yeah the bearings on my DHR still look new.
The only downside is that cleaning out the gunk that gets squeezed out by the new grease is a pain.
This. Many times over. By far the most important thing for an mtb suspension bearing is it's coverage. I learned this the hard way, buying some otherwise high end industrial bearings for my Nomad, and then getting them totally trashed in a few rides.
Enduro has their problems with sealing, but they are one of the few full complement bearings that come in mtb sizes.
It worked great until companies like Specialized and the like started trying to convince everyone that rollerskate bearings were "better" in limited-rotation environments where they "pit" and can't provide decent lateral support. The bushings required more precision to fit, but you could pump a big of grease in every month or two and they'd go on for a long long time. Eventually I replaced the rear horst-bushings, but the main pivot and linkage ones never wore out, even though I replaced them at the same time. Much more laterally rigid than bearings too. According to the story, DT got with an industrial engineer in the beginning to make the "best" pivot system. There were some systems like tapered bearings that were just not practical for small pivots and needle bearings that only have support in two dimensions, so grease-port IGUS bushings were settled on as the best compromise. A bit more expensive than just slapping a few crappy bearings in like the big companies do, but it was well worth it in the long run.
For sure, all bearings and bushings are not created equal. My early-generation Diamondback and Rocky Mountain bikes had pretty terrible bushings, just copper-teflon impregnated aluminum hats, which wore out in no time and were pretty dinky (although the size of the turner bushings wasn't really indicative of their rigidity, it's one reason the bike worked so well, much better bump absorption due to a stiffer frame). You "can" build a decent bike with bearings, if you do it well. Example, my current Turner has the bearings in the linkages, not in the frame, they are relatively easy to push out and install. My recent Specizlied was an absolute nightmare, bearings in the horst-link pivot couldn't even be pulled by a blind puller, because there was no "lip", you had to replace the entire seatstay. You still run into inherent issues like pitting from limited rotation and hopefully they are using good angular contact bearings, but this is one of those areas where it's usually evident that a bike wasn't meant to be used for more than a few seasons. They've gotten better in this regard, but some are just still too "disposable", not meant to go on year after year. Lizards have make sure of this.
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Open question time:
Needle bearings for suspension linkages? I know there's kits for the shock bushings specifically, but in general it would seem a needle bearing would be theoretically excellent for mtb linkages. The practical hurdle is of course that finding well-sealed needle bearings is difficult, bordering on impossible, and they're a lot more expensive then their traditional counterparts.
Needle bearings for suspension linkages? I know there's kits for the shock bushings specifically, but in general it would seem a needle bearing would be theoretically excellent for mtb linkages. The practical hurdle is of course that finding well-sealed needle bearings is difficult, bordering on impossible, and they're a lot more expensive then their traditional counterparts.
I once had a 2007 Devinci Frantik with needle bearings. I'm not sure it if was due to the bearings or something else, but I remember the rear end was loosening a bit easily on my bike. I don't think Devinci uses these bearings anymore.
Break away force would probably be higher on a bushing but they should be better in every other aspect as long as they are well sealed.
My old Nicolai ran needle rollers that had very little to keep the elements out and they didn't seem to last all that long. They introduced plastic bushings in around 2011 I believe, not sure if they are still running them now though.
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/To-The-Point-Bushings-2013.html
Turner also used needle bearings on a few bikes such as the Highline that I owned. They put an x-ring seal around it and had a grease port much like their bushing design. I only had to replace one of them in the 8 years I owned that bike.
I had the first gen Banshee Spitfire with bushings and yeah, that was a fail. They had grease ports but no seals so the grease would get contaminated with dirt and then form a grinding paste that ate away the link material, making the pivots sloppy. If they just had a seal around the outside like Turner does it may have worked ok. I got an at cost replacement frame when the gen 2 Spitfire came out in 2013 and it has held up really well, but I think it's time for new pivot bearings.
You've been riding the original bearings since 2013?
Haha yep. I took the pivots apart once a couple years ago to clean everything and I regreased a few of the bearings that weren't smooth. I try not to ride this bike when it's muddy or in the winter very much, I use my hardtail for that. But overall I still love the Spitfire as it is both super fun to ride and damn near bulletproof from a reliability standpoint.
I guess that nobody has experience with the new MTRX bearings from SKF with "solid oil". It seems to be worth considering. More info here https://www.skf-mtrx.de/en
Those look pretty interesting, but I it looks like they may be $20 or so per bearing.
-Brett
Doesn't look like there's any full complement bearings, $20US would be quite pricey for a caged bearing. Wonder where they'd be made? SKF make a heap of stuff in India and now China, doesn't really matter but it would make the price seem a bit steeper.
Soon we'll all be on E-Bikes and then we can run fluid bearings, hahaha!
Soon we'll all be on E-Bikes and then we can run fluid bearings, hahaha!
30e per side for BB30 bearings. They better be good since you cannot service them.
I don't know what you pay for "nornal" SKF bearings in the US but here in Sweden they cost around 15usd a piece for the linkage.
Any of you bought som MAX bearing but not from Enduro?
I found this online retailer https://www.kugellager-express.de/full-complement-ball-set-deep-groove-ball-bearing-6903-v-2rs-61903-v-2rs-17x30x7-mm the price is quite appealing, maybe too low for quality? I usually pay around 8 € per bearing for Japanese ones, 2rs but not full complement.
I found this online retailer https://www.kugellager-express.de/full-complement-ball-set-deep-groove-ball-bearing-6903-v-2rs-61903-v-2rs-17x30x7-mm the price is quite appealing, maybe too low for quality? I usually pay around 8 € per bearing for Japanese ones, 2rs but not full complement.
That's a B2B shop as far as I know. I bought lots of stuff from its predecessor, always worked out quite well.
When in need of a bearing I always remove them from the frame, take them to my local industrial bearing dealer, place them on the counter and say "I need to replace these, and gimme the good shit" I usually end up with SKF or Timken. It always works out to be a pretty good value, but being in Ca and riding dry conditions 99.9% of the time I'm probably a bad judge of bearing durability, except for headsets they all last a couple years.
Finally a valid reason to switch to press fit BBs, lizards rejoice!
Nowt wrong with 'em.
Repack em and good to go.
If not just trow away teh races and run 'em balls loose like when we were kidz.
Repack em and good to go.
If not just trow away teh races and run 'em balls loose like when we were kidz.
You have chubby hands.
I can't find gloves that fit because my palms are like 6" across. So trying to stretch gloves around my palms makes my fingers look chubby.
Trying to tap the lower bearing out of a headset a few weeks ago I only knocked the inner race out and sent teeny ball bearings scattering across the garage. Wasn't overly impressed with myself.If not just trow away teh races and run 'em balls loose like when we were kidz.
It happened to me too and I was happy that there were slots in the lower bearing cup so that it was fairly easy to knock the outer bearing out.