Belafonte: "No free press in the US"
- Thread starter rockwool
- Start date
Castro may suck, but he doesn't blow, Bush or any other. Any Latin American leader that didn't blow, except Castro and Chavez, have been ousted by the democracy loving champion of hte world, no matter if they were democraticly elected like Allende, Jacobo Arbenz of Guatemala or Aristide of Haiti.
No other leader has done so much for its peoples wellbeing as Castro has. None! His politics might not suit your family but they do to the vast majority of Cuban's. They are a people that shine of life! They don't spend their days going through dumps on the look for food while their kids are getting high on glue, from a US company, that has been porhibited in the States.
Every single Cuban's basic human need have been fulfilled, yes with beens and rice when it comes to food, but the base is the most important. You don't build a block of flats without a good base. If you have to spend your every awake hour looking foor food you don't have the time, energy or intelectual capability to take up critisism against your government.
You will be underdeveloped, both physicly and intelectually, from not have gotten enough proteins during your whole life time.
You will be uneducated with at the tops 6 years of schooling, probably even an analphabet, because you had to work or look for trash.
Your sister, the 10 year old was sold as a prostitute to a pimp so that you younger could get some food.
Even as a working man you can't afford to go to the doctor, who is a stuckup middle class of spanish heritage that loath going to the "ghettos" and therefor there are no local medical centers there.
Your blissfully smart daughter can't go to the university because you can't pay for it, and she has to settle as a supermarket sales person when she could have been a talented human rights lawyer, fighting the power, fighting Castro.
Those of your family that didn't try to leave Cuba don't have any of the above problems that are all too common in that hemisphere!
It seems like that because I am speaking against a thing that you have had beaten into you since you was born. Repetition has that effect. It is also known as brainwashing. But even God's man on earth, the pope, was proven a liar. The earth isn't flat.
I try to present as much facts as I can give about Cuba, to go with my sentimental drivel. I knew I was talking to people that have been "programed" to react from their stomach as soon as they hear "Cuba" or "Castro". The same people that I have numerous uncounted times seen to be very clearthinking, rational and able to critisize their own country, as they are aware of that its actions don't live up to its words.
I don't know all about Cuba and sertainly don't want to come out as a besserweiser. The positive stuff I know about Cuba come from the pro-Castro side because there's NO OTHER WAY of getting to know anything positive about that country. Think about it, when did you read anything positive about Cuba in a mainstream source?
Yet there are several UN reports that commend Cuba's achievements. Also non of which I've seen mentioned in mainstream media. I try to see, read and learn from both sides when it comes to politics as the only one getting really fooled is me, if I was to trust my chosen side without checking it up and comparing it.
I don't doubt there are such films. In our western eyes we will see the poverty of the state as it reflects in lousy taken cared of infrastructure etc, not thinking that it is a normal 3rd world view. Distrust of the government? I can give you loads of that from my home town. Grab a camera one weekend and go out in yours and do the same as them. Do you think your result won't be the same?
The information I share is always sincere and I try to present it with facts when possible. Politics to me isn't sports. I root for a team, but no political party. I am not a partys loyal dog that will await for them to change to the better. If they don't change I move on. I have a political conviction that anarcho-socialism is the way to go. That don't mean that I stupidly defend stuff just because they are done by "my side". It is not football. We are not the gratest team in the world no matter how much we suck.
That's what I was talking about just above. That is why I hang in this forum.
Now, I could take your example and say "see, you don't eather have free press in the US, why are you talking about Cuba" as it would justify their government imposed restrictions. But I defend the restriction of press on Cuba as a nessesary thing for its very survival as an independent country.
It is a bad nessesity of the moment that I will fight against the day that US hostilities end. The press has THE power to mislead by dissinformation. We humans in general can't defend our selves against this as it is almost impossible to obtain all the info needed so that we can draw the right conclusions.
What the media lets us know about Cuba is far from objective. They have an agenda. Nothing that the media moguls strive for is to my or your good, so why trust them so uncritically when it comes to Cuba?
I see what you mean. But I honestly belive that Cuba is different. Not perfect, but way better than the rest of the Americas. A society that is constantly progressing, especially after the collaps of the Soviet Union.
actually rockwool, cuban film makers were for a long time the only people with the ability to criticize the government. They have a long history of taking critical looks at the revolution, although always with enough patriotism thrown in to cover their asses.
They have come under the government squeeze during the "Special period" ostensibly for financial reason, but most people who know believe that they are being stifled because they had gotten too cocky.
They have come under the government squeeze during the "Special period" ostensibly for financial reason, but most people who know believe that they are being stifled because they had gotten too cocky.
Also, the "every single cuban's basic needs are fulfilled" line is bull****. They like their entitlements just like americans do, but people scrap and hustle all day long to make ends meet. they survive in spite of the government, not because of it.
Just go to cuatro caminos or one of the many other black markets hiding in plain sight, talk to somebody who is an illegal immigrant to havana from the east, talk to the illegal taxi drivers, to the prostitutes, talk to a university student who doesn't see any creative future, talk to the many many Cubans who are fed up, repressed, and outraged by government policies that identify them as enemies of the people because their lifestyles do not conform with the state approved model.
Just go to cuatro caminos or one of the many other black markets hiding in plain sight, talk to somebody who is an illegal immigrant to havana from the east, talk to the illegal taxi drivers, to the prostitutes, talk to a university student who doesn't see any creative future, talk to the many many Cubans who are fed up, repressed, and outraged by government policies that identify them as enemies of the people because their lifestyles do not conform with the state approved model.
Rockwool, if Cuba is so wonderful, than why do you live in Sweden?
Perhaps you should move to Cuba, where your Internet access would be limited, and we wouldn't have to listen to your inane ramblings...
"It seems like that because I am speaking against a thing that you have had beaten into you since you was born" And you? You arrived at your opinions on your own? Do not presume to preach to us how we were raised, or taught to think critically and interpret current events and world politics.
Your dislike of the US is evident, yet you and the rest of the world continue to embrace us and our culture and risk life and limb to come here and assume residency. When was the last time someone did that to get into Cuba? Or Sweden? If it is so bad here, and we as a country are so evil, then why? Please enlighten us...
Perhaps you should move to Cuba, where your Internet access would be limited, and we wouldn't have to listen to your inane ramblings...
"It seems like that because I am speaking against a thing that you have had beaten into you since you was born" And you? You arrived at your opinions on your own? Do not presume to preach to us how we were raised, or taught to think critically and interpret current events and world politics.
Your dislike of the US is evident, yet you and the rest of the world continue to embrace us and our culture and risk life and limb to come here and assume residency. When was the last time someone did that to get into Cuba? Or Sweden? If it is so bad here, and we as a country are so evil, then why? Please enlighten us...
Hey, what do you know, you only live in...oh wait...Peru. Damn.
Once again: If you're in a country where ONE goddamn political party is legal, you are not living in a democracy, no matter what the constitution says.
This is not a hard concept.
This is not a hard concept.
I met a Cuban before. Wore way too goddam much cologne.
and the heels, d@mn...
Any country where people DRIVE Oldsmobiles has a problem. Trying to turn them into boats is a symptom of something much worse...
So you was one of the first American medical students to go there on a scholarship?
That comes from guys who drive trucks.. Do you think Chuck D would take a truck over a 98? Noo Waaay.
I was on a program run by Pomona College and Sarah Lawrence College. Med students arent at the u of h, they have their own campus. I don't know whose dick we had to suck at treasury to get our liscence, but I know we were the only undergrad program get in under the new requirements.
Actually, democracy is kindof a hard concept. 'Mericans tend to think that only our form of democracy is "real" democracy. This is very stupid and arrogant.
Thank you! I'm having a hard time explaining in a way for people to understand what enormous propaganda we live under, and that positive news blockout from Cuba is seriously destroying our abilities to make a fair judgement.
Mandatory elections! Interesting, but why? I mean, they are restricting on the free will to vote, how do they defend that? Is it because they consider voting/participating in society to be a duty of a citizen, or?
They promote that people organize them selves in different things? That is good. That is what leftist groops are trying to do over here, and I guess all over the world, as they have realized that the organization of people is the only way we can change they system. They belive that together we are strong, and that only Chuck Norris is strong alone, but have a hard time getting people to turn of their TV's...
He's way to effing smart to just be a popular figure to gather everybody under. You can't have such brains and not be contributing to the country you love. Some go golfing....others write books.
I've read that a big % of the population own their own houses, no? They aren't allowed to sell these and buy other?
I've read there are some 200.000 (it was in the 6figures) private and/or semi-private companies, no?
The rest I can imagine is correct. They are recognizing the power of propaganda, printed or aired, and in that way limiting people from both good news and dissinformative news. The survival of the nation is prioritized.
Health care is not free after U?
Please get deeper in how health care and education is used for social control.
No doubt, the GNP of the country is small and therefore everybody are really poor. At least some 20% or so don't live in abundance while the others are, more or less, starving.
From https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/jm.html
In comparison with Jamaica:
I could only find 2-3 countries in Latin America that had a lower GDP PPP than Cuba.
https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/cu.html
I know their economy has grown rapidly since the end of the "special period", late 90's or so, but it was one hell of an abyss to get up from. Personaly I think it was the best thing that has happened to the revolution as it forced them to think differently. Well needed so.
The economy is still totally warped but I've read a figure (have it some where and I'm going to look it up when I have the time) that the US blockade is costing them some 30-40% of their GNP.
Would you want to live in Equador, that has a GDP PPP of ~$4500?
Do you find that people there in general are happy to live there, and would prefer Cuba instead of living equally poor in another Latin American country?
People are feeing poor countries all over the world, and soon we will have global heating refugees.
Interesting, I haven't read the American constitution, nor the Swedish for that matter.
I don't despise US Americans or USA. But the foreign politics of the US have for over a century, soon two, seriously been bad for the people of the rest of the world.
The US took over the role of the Brittish empire, and even though you don't call other countries your colonies, and has continued to do, in a modernized manner, what colonial powers were doing before. Exploiting other nations natural resources and its people.
That is plain wrong, no matter who does it, and I will fight against it.
I will take your word for that without questioning it. That is the way it is, the cultural and intelectual elite will always be a progressive force in any society.
Sorry, it should say "every single Cuban's basic need is equally fullfilled to the best ability of the state, compared to other neighbouring countries where people are malnutritioned and starving, without a chance of receiving medical help, or education of any medium or higher form".
I scrap and hustle just to make my ends meet over here too maaan, just on a bit bigger material level (and I'm not a materialist). It is mankinds strive to improve his situation.
What ever you sow, you are allowed to keep a % and sell on the market for your own benefit. Was it such a market?
I'm not denying any of the above, just that all these things happen here too, to a different extent and in some variations. We live in repressive societies too, but they are more advanced in their control and surveilance of the people.
Show me a third world country that provides, cares and distributes the limited wealth it has, for the majority of its citizens, better.
What do you want me to say, perhaps you and your family should move to Iraq and live a prosperous life under foreign occupation?
I try to give as much facts as I can to go with my ramblings. Shouldn't you consider all facts from all sides before you judge? Shouldn't you be humble to the fact that our current views might be proven wrong in the future, or hasn't that happened to you before?
My oppinions on Cuba did actually arive on their own. 5 years ago I had no oppinion as I realized I had no real knowledge of that country. So I began seeking information about Cuba actively, which is the opposite of being fed by the mainstream media as I had previously been.
I haven't said a word about how any of you have been raised and taught by your parents. I've been speaking of your society as a whole. Now, your society is all over the world all of the time, even on every news program, in every paper, and in every film out of Hollywoooo. No one could possibly miss it. On top of that, our societies are very much alike.
You abilities to think criticaly, consider situations, interpret current events and world politics etc, are not only up to if we have a big brain or not. It's up to with that we feed it with the CORRECT & ALL INFORMATION there is on the subject, from ALL SIDES.
The fattest computer in the world wouldn't be able to make a simple calculation if it wasn't programed with the correct data.
You have completely missunderstood me, or spun things I've said to other things.
lthumbsdown: Yes, I dislike the politics of the US and I have never tried to hide it. With the US litteraly being the Empire in Star Wars, and making peole suffer so much how could I not have an opinion of them? If I liked what they was doing then I would be a wicked soul. I'm with the Rebels.
However, my critisism of the US is not entire in all things US American, that would be ignorant and small minded. If you are one of those who consiously equal critisism on some US policies as a critisism on all things US American, then you're wicked.
If you do it subconsiously, then you've been used and fooled by those who tell you its "us against them". That is the very same people that later will **** you over for petty materialism. That is not me.
And NO, I have not bought the American Dream. I do not wish to go there and I do not buy US products as I don't want to feed the dog that bites my brother.
Here's an example: Assata Shakur
20% of Swedens population is from political/economical refugees and luck seekers, in large, from the 1950s onwards. 1st, 2nd, or 3rd generation immigrants.
That's what I'm doing all the time, seriously. Trying to enlighten you.
I might take Cuba over ecuador.
The cuban government will tell you that your access to government services entails certain duties, voting among them. They come to your house and ask for your vote. If you decline, you're on the "list" as an antisocial or whatever. You dont want to be on the list. The ballot is also less than secret.
They dont promote people organizing themselves, they instruct the people to join revolutionary organizations. in fact, they are terrified of independent organizations. Everything has to happen within the proper channels.
People dont own any real estate. They pay 10% of income in rent. Because they dont own of course they cant sell, but they are allowed to swap (permutar) with somebody else. Cash under the table usually accompanies these swaps, but its all illegal.
As a result, there is a crushing housing crisis in havana, to the point that internal migration was made illegal in 97 or so. Undocumented immigrants pay to sleep in living rooms and garages all over the city. The center is literally crumbling away since it is impossible to get things like lumber, concrete, and paint if you arent connected. Government housing projects are routinely looted for building supplies so nothing really gets built.
As far as keeping a % of produce, its true and it makes certain kinds of farmers among the richest people in cuba. This really pisses people off. Farmers recieve a govt quota and fill it with their lowest quality goods, saving the rest for the private farmers markets in the city where business is conducted in hard currency and prices are 10X or more higher than they are in the typically empty government shops.
The cuban government will tell you that your access to government services entails certain duties, voting among them. They come to your house and ask for your vote. If you decline, you're on the "list" as an antisocial or whatever. You dont want to be on the list. The ballot is also less than secret.
They dont promote people organizing themselves, they instruct the people to join revolutionary organizations. in fact, they are terrified of independent organizations. Everything has to happen within the proper channels.
People dont own any real estate. They pay 10% of income in rent. Because they dont own of course they cant sell, but they are allowed to swap (permutar) with somebody else. Cash under the table usually accompanies these swaps, but its all illegal.
As a result, there is a crushing housing crisis in havana, to the point that internal migration was made illegal in 97 or so. Undocumented immigrants pay to sleep in living rooms and garages all over the city. The center is literally crumbling away since it is impossible to get things like lumber, concrete, and paint if you arent connected. Government housing projects are routinely looted for building supplies so nothing really gets built.
As far as keeping a % of produce, its true and it makes certain kinds of farmers among the richest people in cuba. This really pisses people off. Farmers recieve a govt quota and fill it with their lowest quality goods, saving the rest for the private farmers markets in the city where business is conducted in hard currency and prices are 10X or more higher than they are in the typically empty government shops.
"Show me a third world country that provides, cares and distributes the limited wealth it has, for the majority of its citizens, better."
You answered no question there, Sparky. Why dont you live there?
"perhaps you and your family should move to Iraq"
Why? I like the US. I realize it isnt perfect, and I do not present it as such. I have spent enought time in SW Asia this life, and do not ever care to go back. For anything, or anyone.
"Shouldn't you consider all facts from all sides before you judge?"
Hellloooo Pot, this is Kettle calling. Have you considered ALL the "facts" about the US before you made your informed decisions?
"I haven't said a word about how any of you have been raised and taught by your parents"
Nor did I. As Hilary Clinton reminded us, "It takes a village." Like it or not, we are raised as much by the community around us as we are by our family. YOU are the one who said "I am speaking against a thing that you have had beaten into you since you was born." You were suggestiong something other than indoctrination, via forced or voluntary means?
"Yes, I dislike the politics of the US and I have never tried to hide it."
You dislike the politics of the GOP. And no one buys off on the American Dream anymore. 'Cept the millions of people living in other countries who want to come here.
"Here's an example: Assata Shakur"
One guy? Dang. Wow. Guess you showed us. Wow. One guy.
"20% of Swedens population is from political/economical refugees and luck seekers, in large, from the 1950s onwards. 1st, 2nd, or 3rd generation immigrants."
20%? Dang. Wow. Guess you showed us. Wow. 20%. How many do you think immigrated here? Probably a few more than 20%. Just a thought. Maybe 23% or so. Maybe a few more...
To paraphrase Voltaire, "Although I do not agree with a single word that you say, I shall defend to my last breath your right to say it"
And that is the difference between you and me, my friend...
You answered no question there, Sparky. Why dont you live there?
"perhaps you and your family should move to Iraq"
Why? I like the US. I realize it isnt perfect, and I do not present it as such. I have spent enought time in SW Asia this life, and do not ever care to go back. For anything, or anyone.
"Shouldn't you consider all facts from all sides before you judge?"
Hellloooo Pot, this is Kettle calling. Have you considered ALL the "facts" about the US before you made your informed decisions?
"I haven't said a word about how any of you have been raised and taught by your parents"
Nor did I. As Hilary Clinton reminded us, "It takes a village." Like it or not, we are raised as much by the community around us as we are by our family. YOU are the one who said "I am speaking against a thing that you have had beaten into you since you was born." You were suggestiong something other than indoctrination, via forced or voluntary means?
"Yes, I dislike the politics of the US and I have never tried to hide it."
You dislike the politics of the GOP. And no one buys off on the American Dream anymore. 'Cept the millions of people living in other countries who want to come here.
"Here's an example: Assata Shakur"
One guy? Dang. Wow. Guess you showed us. Wow. One guy.
"20% of Swedens population is from political/economical refugees and luck seekers, in large, from the 1950s onwards. 1st, 2nd, or 3rd generation immigrants."
20%? Dang. Wow. Guess you showed us. Wow. 20%. How many do you think immigrated here? Probably a few more than 20%. Just a thought. Maybe 23% or so. Maybe a few more...
To paraphrase Voltaire, "Although I do not agree with a single word that you say, I shall defend to my last breath your right to say it"
And that is the difference between you and me, my friend...
99% of almost nothing is still almost nothing.
if you are pretty much responsible of the fact there is virtually NOTHING to "distribute", yet you distribute 99% of everything, it still means you are a failure.
But nothing the democrats have said makes me wet with anticipation of great things to come either.
Agreed...they all suck.
Political violence is about as evil as it gets. In that sense, Cuba loses in my book.
That lovable teddy bear el Che is thought to have personally executed around 300 people, and ordered the deaths of thousands more. Preists, landlords, government officials etc etc. Maybe they were scumbags, I don't know, but its a shame when ideology trumps human empathy.
That lovable teddy bear el Che is thought to have personally executed around 300 people, and ordered the deaths of thousands more. Preists, landlords, government officials etc etc. Maybe they were scumbags, I don't know, but its a shame when ideology trumps human empathy.
Thats not to say that the US government isnt just as guilty, we just tend to stand a little farther away from our victims.
ideology sometimes has to. You cant accomplish alot of things without force.
Che may have killed 300, but Bush killed 100x that
BS: what is it we need to accomplish so badly that you feel comfortable greasing the wheels with human blood?
I'm not saying you can never fight for your survival, but non-initiation of force is, I believe, the only morally defensible position.
I'm not saying you can never fight for your survival, but non-initiation of force is, I believe, the only morally defensible position.
Im not defending the current actions of our government, Im just saying that there are situations in which it's acceptable to dispatch of political enemies for the greater good.
Nuremberg?
they did start it. that falls under non-initiation.
Define "start it"
Yes, but not personally. He skipped out on his opportunity to be a trigger puller. Why dirty his Ivy League hands when Daddy can get you out of it?Che may have killed 300, but Bush killed 100x that
K, but I've seen pictures of voters. The boxes were guarded by children in school uniforms.. Were they staged?
That is a difference for sure and I don't doubt they are suspicious of independent organizations. But to be fair our secret police's are infiltrating and surveiling a whole lot of organizations too. Still, organization in it self is a good thing because the average Cuban gets involved in his society, learns about it in a way he wouldn't if he just sat at home watching TV, and knowledge/awareness of things are fundamental for a person to be able to see the effed up things around him, and even to develop a critical thinking.
K, I've read that a large % own their own houses, just like some fortunate own them old 'Merican amphibious automobiles.
Is that 10% of what is left over after tax?
That is a result of the poverty of the country, no?
I recognize the same problem from Greece. After they joined the EU their best agricultural products went on export as the rest of the EU had more money to pay for the same stuff. On top of that prices sky rocketed when they joined the EMU. Eight months after the joined the EMU I was there and overheared several spontainious conversations among people on the bus, talking about how darn effed up things had gotten..
what? childen in school uniforms????????!!!!!!!
of course they cant be frauds then!
the % of home-owners in shanty towns is WAAAAAAAAAY larger than in suburban or urban areas in Lima. in fact, everyone who lives in a shanty town, owns his "home".
what does it means? higher living standards in shanty towns???? nope. it means this people are so poor, they cant afford to rent a decent housing unit, thus they get a bunch of carboard somewhere in the middle of nowhere, and make a semi-permanent tent, fully owned and paid for.
thing is, in your european mindset, "home-owner" means "he who owns a home" and by home you think "a decent place usually made of bricks, or wood and sheetrock", and maybe you even associate the word with "fully paid mortage"... not a bunch of cardboard and plastic supermarket bags to waterproof cobbled together.
You cant just decide to buy a car in cuba unless it is a pre 59 car or you have a special govt permit. Those are almost impossible to get unless you are an employee of the govt or you have some connections.
As far as home ownership, you and I are talking about different things. If by "own" you mean "there is no landlord," yes, many own their homes after they pay their 10% of income in rent to the state. Some may have even been given homes as encouragement to move to certain parts of the island (as in, away from havana), I'm not sure about the details of those arrangements. However, if by own you mean "can dispose of as they wish," I repeat that nobody owns any real estate. The term they use is "legal posessor" of an asset, but transfer, use as collateral, and subdivision, development and sale are all more or less impossible.
Say you want to move out of your parents house. You go to the government housing office, stand in line, and explain your need. You then may or may not be contacted (depending on whether you are on the list) within the next few years and offered an apartment. The result is that most people just live with their parents forever. 3 generations in 1 apartment is not uncommon at all.
As far as pictures of childeren guarding ballot boxes, they werent having an election while I was there so I don't know.
I suppose you could say that the housing crunch in Havana was a result of poverty, but it really started as a government policy before 1993. The government viewed Havana as dangerous, a center of independent thought and existing organizations that were impossible to monitor and control. (They also borrowed a soviet model of urban development that was uniquely unappealing to cubans - the city is ringed by huge and desolate tracts of identical apartment blocs that are widely hated and in serious disrepair). Their goal was to depopulate the city, or at least keep it from growing, by encouraging people to move to secondary cities and small towns scattered across the island. When they had the soviet sugar daddy, so to speak, they were able to incentivize migration to these other poles, but after the money ran out, people reverted to their natural and historical pattern of migration and started abandoning the rural areas/new cities in the east for the capitol.
As far as home ownership, you and I are talking about different things. If by "own" you mean "there is no landlord," yes, many own their homes after they pay their 10% of income in rent to the state. Some may have even been given homes as encouragement to move to certain parts of the island (as in, away from havana), I'm not sure about the details of those arrangements. However, if by own you mean "can dispose of as they wish," I repeat that nobody owns any real estate. The term they use is "legal posessor" of an asset, but transfer, use as collateral, and subdivision, development and sale are all more or less impossible.
Say you want to move out of your parents house. You go to the government housing office, stand in line, and explain your need. You then may or may not be contacted (depending on whether you are on the list) within the next few years and offered an apartment. The result is that most people just live with their parents forever. 3 generations in 1 apartment is not uncommon at all.
As far as pictures of childeren guarding ballot boxes, they werent having an election while I was there so I don't know.
I suppose you could say that the housing crunch in Havana was a result of poverty, but it really started as a government policy before 1993. The government viewed Havana as dangerous, a center of independent thought and existing organizations that were impossible to monitor and control. (They also borrowed a soviet model of urban development that was uniquely unappealing to cubans - the city is ringed by huge and desolate tracts of identical apartment blocs that are widely hated and in serious disrepair). Their goal was to depopulate the city, or at least keep it from growing, by encouraging people to move to secondary cities and small towns scattered across the island. When they had the soviet sugar daddy, so to speak, they were able to incentivize migration to these other poles, but after the money ran out, people reverted to their natural and historical pattern of migration and started abandoning the rural areas/new cities in the east for the capitol.
The squatter problem is not as big in Cuba as in other L.A. countries, but the govt admits to about 50000 people living in improvised housing. Truth is nobody knows though. There was a significant squatter village in my neighborhood (in the flood plain of the river) and they had all the traits of the communities you'd find in any other big developing city though.