[Jeremy R]

I have been trailriding at Bent Creek since I first started riding about 12 years ago. I actually go there alot because it is convenient for me to get to, and I like riding there.
Anyway, I have not been there since winter, so I went up there this weekend, and was blown away by what they have done to the trails.
First the positives:
Its an easy climb up to the 5 points now, and even the climb up to Green Lick is smooth and easy.
That Green Lick trail is downright ridiculous. I still can't believe it exists in Pisgah. It feels like a closed race course. It was super dry and dusty up there, and I have NEVER ridden a faster trail than that.
Alot of the jumps just shoot you straight out, so you can hit them at full speed and you hardly lose any speed. So fun and fast.
It was so fun, I had to turn around, climb back up it and do it again.
Even better the second time.
It has been stated before that the Green Lick trail has no rocks or roots on it. It basically just feels like a giant super fast slalom course from top to bottom.
That is cool, because it was only one trail. I just thought that Green Lick was a one-off. Built for speed demons maybe to keep them off the other trails or something, BUT

Now onto the negative part:
They have SMOOTHED out almost everything up there.
The Ingles Field trail now feels like a BMX track with no jumps, same thing goes for sidehill etc......
All the rocks and roots I used to hop over or pick through are gone.
The technical trails there are now road smooth with a few rollers put in. But a rider with any skill can pump the rollers and ride everything up there at RIDICULOUS speeds now.
Here is where the problem is gonna come in:
The Green Lick trail has enough real jumps and techy turns where it will scare a lesser skilled rider or a pure xc rider to stay on the brakes, and roll everything and make it to the bottom safely.
I actually saw this happening this weekend.
But the other trails I rode out there are not like that.
They are just goofy fast with small rollers and people with zero skill can be riding on that stuff at Mach 10 all day long.
All the rocks, roots, and ruts used to keep people honest. The bumps alone would slow an average rider down, now its the autobahn up there.
Everybody knows that Bent Creek can be really crowded, and there are alot of hikers, dogs, newbie riders, etc.....
Anyway, the whole point of this post is that I see no way around there being a ton of carnage up there now.
I saw new riders up there on big bikes wearing full face helmets getting all sketchy on small rollers. Unless they change the trails the user conflict is going to be off the chart.
I am not even trying to be negative here. I actually had a blast riding there even though I missed the techy sections, but mark my words, if those trails are left unchanged you are going to be reading about it in the newspaper. Here is the headline:

40 MPHer Beginner Mountain Biker turns hiker into a pile of corn beef hash.

 

[bizutch]

That's exactly what I said in the thread about Ingles Field a while back when I first rode the changed section down the center.

Everyone keep in mind that Trail Dynamics www.traildynamics.com built Green's Lick. They DID NOT re-shape the other trails, specificly Ingles Field.

When I first rode the changed Ingles Field trail, I said "Oh no! Someone is going to get gored like a fat chic at the Running of the Bulls!" It's opened up, but with blind turns and nothing to deter novices from just pinning it all the way down. Green's Lick slows you down and forces you into control in all the right places and opens up in clear, open areas.

I nicknamed Green's Lick "Collarbone" after I rode it the first time and I was told not too long ago at least 3 have broken theirs on it.

I'm dubbing Ingles Field "Demolition" ....:nonono:

 

[Dirtrider]

I have also noticed a lot more hikers going up Green Lick now. I stopped to talk to one and he said it was his favorite hike in BC..You definitely have to keep your head on a swivel and watch out for the hikers with their dogs coming around some of those blind curves at 30mph.

Ingles Field Gap...we'll that just hurts my feelings to see what the boys from Cali did to that trail.:looney:

 

[JeffD]

I saw new riders up there on big bikes wearing full face helmets getting all sketchy on small rollers.

So what's the problem? They have to prep for Windrock somehow! :devil:

 

[metalhead119042]

Is this up in the Pisgah area?

 

[mtnbiker66]

I think its a trend to make everything user friendly. I had a great little meeting with Chuck from Trail Dynamics a ranger and some other riders at Dupont yesterday. They are going to do some work on Burnt Mtn. I told them to leave it alone and they thought I was crazy. I was ask "do you like those washed out rough sections?". Heck yes! I don't want to ride a smooth track in the woods. Whats next, smooth out black Mtn??? Those guys do good work but leave somethings alone....you know?

 

[Jeremy R]

I think its a trend to make everything user friendly. I had a great little meeting with Chuck from Trail Dynamics a ranger and some other riders at Dupont yesterday. They are going to do some work on Burnt Mtn. I told them to leave it alone and they thought I was crazy. I was ask "do you like those washed out rough sections?". Heck yes! I don't want to ride a smooth track in the woods. Whats next, smooth out black Mtn??? Those guys do good work but leave somethings alone....you know?

If they smooth out Black Mountain, I am grabbing a battle axe.

 

[dhbuilder]

I think its a trend to make everything user friendly. I had a great little meeting with Chuck from Trail Dynamics a ranger and some other riders at Dupont yesterday. They are going to do some work on Burnt Mtn. I told them to leave it alone and they thought I was crazy. I was ask "do you like those washed out rough sections?". Heck yes! I don't want to ride a smooth track in the woods. Whats next, smooth out black Mtn??? Those guys do good work but leave somethings alone....you know?

i pulled that link into my computor and looked at all of it.

if ya'll don't know how i feel about that type of thinking by now.
then you haven't been paying attention.

the road to hell was paved with good intentions.
and it seems everywhere you look around here all the access trails leading to that road are being de-rocked and de-rooted at a breakneck pace.

 

[dhbuilder]

If they smooth out Black Mountain, I am grabbing a battle axe.

before you do bring it to me. i'll put an edge on it that'll do ya proud.

 

[mtnbiker66]

If they smooth out Black Mountain, I am grabbing a battle axe.

One good thing. I think they're gonna try to make Burnt mtn. bikes only. We'll see how that goes.

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

Of the probably 10 times I have ridden Burnt Mountain, I have never encountered a non cyclist on that trail. Why would they mess with that trail. It is so sweet. If people are going to hike they would hike up a trail that offers them some views or something. The waterfalls, the big rock trail and that nice over look. Tell them to save their time, leave it alone, but since they bought the bike only sign, throw it up for good measure!

 

[bizutch]

Of the probably 10 times I have ridden Burnt Mountain, I have never encountered a non cyclist on that trail. Why would they mess with that trail. It is so sweet. If people are going to hike they would hike up a trail that offers them some views or something. The waterfalls, the big rock trail and that nice over look. Tell them to save their time, leave it alone, but since they bought the bike only sign, throw it up for good measure!

because Woody and Ed get paid to run a mini-dozer and stay in the woods all day digging. It's a business. You think they're gonna suggest to the Forest Service "Oh no. That trail is fine. We'll work on something elsewhere."

Ed and Woody have good intentions in their own minds I'm sure.

But if you want to know the REAL reason all those trails are getting dumbed down. It's in the Forest Service docs that they want to make the experimental forest HANDICAP ACCESSIBLE!

If you think I'm making it up, consider this. The NC Arboretum was created as a 'showcase' for native plants and etc. All well and good to get the general public "safe and accessible" forest viewing under controlled conditons.

BUT...and here is where you need to be FARSIGHTED...they've now taken upon themselves to deem SEGWAYS an acceptable form of transportation on forest trails in the NC Arboretum, a branch of Bent Creek.

So now electric motorized vehicles (these are by NO means human powered and electricity still has to be generated to power them so pollution is involved in their operation...just not at the sight of operation) are allowed 50 feet from the National Forest.

And Bent Creek is an "experimental forest". The Forest Service tried to back door the outdoor community a few years back and gut Bent Creek to make the "experiments" in the Ingles Field area and several others "vehicle" accessible. Read that as "We wanna drive cars on dirt roads to show politicians the effects of ....logging 1 tiny piece of forest again...and again....and again.

Thanks to the local outcry this plan was stopped and a middle ground achieved with far less dirt roads cut than originally planned.

I highly doubt that a test plan that generates $45-$65.00 per person in the Arboretum is just going to stay there. The trails are getting wider, smoother and more "vehicle" accessible. With the Forest Service hurting for funding as bad as it is to stay afloat...anybody see where they might pick up some money here?

 

[Tattooo]

Its starting to sound a lot like maybe the wife ought to take a posting at Fort Legune...

I'll bring the fat to come undo the sanitization. We don't have suspension just to add weight for training boys.

Edit: as a future ABA scum sucker, I wonder if some sort of reverse constructive easement arguement can be made. If only I could find an expert encouraging Eugenics... I am all for Timmy the Quad seeing the pretty flowers and the nice butterflies before they take him back to the home and let him drool, but I am not good with those of us mobile and stupid losing our rights to have to work. Telling you boys, we are in the end of days when it comes to work and challenge.

 

[biggins]

well ya know everything in the USA has to dumbed down to accomodate the lowest common denominator.

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

because Woody and Ed get paid to run a mini-dozer and stay in the woods all day digging. It's a business. You think they're gonna suggest to the Forest Service "Oh no. That trail is fine. We'll work on something elsewhere."

Ed and Woody have good intentions in their own minds I'm sure.

Fair enough. I am actually a fan of the majority of their work, so .... I doubt the end result would be too disappointing, but it is still one of the best trails in Dupont as-is

But if you want to know the REAL reason all those trails are getting dumbed down. It's in the Forest Service docs that they want to make the experimental forest HANDICAP ACCESSIBLE!

Maybe you could get them to install a lift?

You know something like this would be sweet,

and would eliminate that "S word" that is not allowed in Pisgah.

 

[dhbuilder]

well ya know everything in the USA has to dumbed down to accomodate the lowest common denominator.

that's why i always catch so much flack from all sides.
till the day i can't hike up and build trails, my style will be just the opposite.

i guarantee that nothing i build will ever have the lowest common denominator in mind.
there has to be trails for all skill levels.

terry and i used to ride the daylights out of pisgah, two days a week for many years when i first moved to tennessee.
and i still say it's the best place i've ever ridden x-c. and i've ridden all over this country.
but the two times we rode into the bent creek area, while we liked the riding there. it just didn't seem like that was part of the forrest we should be riding in.
this was many years ago. and i don't know how the place has evolved since then. and it does sound like it is a favorite area among the locals

this may be easy for me to say, as detached as i am from ya'll's little slice of heaven. but i do believe the making a section of that beautiful forrest available for those less mobile than you or i isn't a bad idea.

but it does always seem like we're the ones getting pushed around. and i'm sure mt.bikers had a lot to do with trail development in that area.
i remember the trails having too good of a flow for that not to be the case.

and it does seem like the trail dynamics group is creating a future speed control problem.
technical features in trails help keep speed in check for the average rider. and like was posted earlier, now you'll have riders attaining speeds they've never experienced before nor have any clue as to how to control it.

 

[Jeremy R]

this may be easy for me to say, as detached as i am from ya'll's little slice of heaven. but i do believe the making a section of that beautiful forrest available for those less mobile than you or i isn't a bad idea.

but it does always seem like we're the ones getting pushed around. and i'm sure mt.bikers had a lot to do with trail development in that area.
i remember the trails having too good of a flow for that not to be the case.

and it does seem like the trail dynamics group is creating a future speed control problem.
technical features in trails help keep speed in check for the average rider. and like was posted earlier, now you'll have riders attaining speeds they've never experienced before nor have any clue as to how to control it.

Yeah, that is what is going on.
I agree with you, even though is does not suit me or my tastes, If there needs to be some trails in Pisgah that are easier to get more people involved in the sport, then I am all for it. And actually, Bent Creek is a good place to do this.
But they have made the place too fast and too easy to go fast.
They may even be less crashes overall, but the ones that do go down are gonna hurt.
And God forbid, if a segway hits those trails......
it is gonna look like an episode of Battlebots.

 

[bizutch]

I actually sent a letter to the arboretum staff stating that I hope the Segway program fails horribly so that I never see it expand to other areas of the forest.

I should have said...when I go by one, I'm gonna do some cow tippin' and shove Fat Mary and her gravy gut to the ground to see if it will stay upright...

 

[FCLinder]

Fair enough. I am actually a fan of the majority of their work, so .... I doubt the end result would be too disappointing, but it is still one of the best trails in Dupont as-is



Maybe you could get them to install a lift?

You know something like this would be sweet,

and would eliminate that "S word" that is not allowed in Pisgah.

Just think how sweet it would be if the brakes went out on that thing.

 

[mtnbiker66]

I actually sent a letter to the arboretum staff stating that I hope the Segway program fails horribly so that I never see it expand to other areas of the forest.

I should have said...when I go by one, I'm gonna do some cow tippin' and shove Fat Mary and her gravy gut to the ground to see if it will stay upright...

Fat Mary?? I can moto whip my segway in a wicked look back. Whats gonna happen when Suzi Q on her entry level Hardrock starts drifting at 30mph? Someone is gonna get hurt and then it's gonna be the same old mtnbiker BS,"we should get them off the trails......bla,bla,bla.I can't see that working out well.

 

[Tattooo]

Screw it, I've always liked being an outlaw better anyway.

Let the battle begin!

 

[dhbuilder]

if you think those segways would be a hazard on the trail, just think about if you saw "mr garrison" rolling down the trail in his contraption.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Whatever. Segways are the new walking.