Quantcast

beware of low stack heights and carbon bars

i recently updated my cockpit on the 2011 Demo with a Havoc DM stem and Havoc carbon bar. Recently, i had to bail off a 4ft high wooden "skinny" while freeriding. I let go of the bike and did a tuck and roll. After the dusting myself off and inspecting the bike i noticed a few things.

1. the HAVOC direct mount stem has relatively small clamping area compared to some of the other stems on the market

2. stem faceplate and stem body has sharp 90degree leading edges

3. the direct mount bolt holes are slightly out spec

these observations along with the inherent flexi-ness of the carbon bar and the low stack height caused damage to the Havoc carbon bar. there is a cut edge in the center corresponding to the right leading edge of the stem/bar interface. the resulting combination of the DM stem actually rotating relative to the fork (about 1-2mm) and flexiness of the carbon bar allowed the bar to contact the machined top cap of the dorado fork during the crash. the metal top cap put a sizeable gouge in the bar thru a few layers of carbon.

all bolts were torqued to spec indicated. at rest, there was about 1.5-2cm of clearance between the bar and the fork.

i guess the PSA is that with the low stack height craze, folks are bound to have close distances between the bar and the fork. just be mindful about this should you be running a carbon bar as opposed to an aluminum one.

i was hoping (altho a small one) that Easton would offer a free warranty replacement, but they only offered a 30% discount when i called. Still alittle bummed that $150 went down the crapper with a crash that most aluminum bars would have shrugged off.

nevertheless, should i go thru with the replacement, i'm reverting back to my E.13 stem.
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,371
1,609
Warsaw :/
Sorry to hear that. Im going to higher rise as well. Went to low and even though I dont otb more than usual it put me in a weird position. That flex thing worries me as i wanted to get a set of enve bars after this season.
 

stoney

Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde
Jul 26, 2006
21,644
7,319
Colorado
This sounds more like a stem and crashing issue, not a low stack height/carbon bar issue.
 

rewster

Monkey
Feb 3, 2007
245
0
charlotte nc
what do you mean by "the bolt holes were out of spec"? the stem/crown interface bolts aren't meant to be a pin fit.

..and carbon bars, that's just silly.
 
Last edited:

yd35

Monkey
Oct 28, 2008
741
61
NY
Sorry to hear that an expensive and new piece of equipment is already toast. You mention the flexiness of the carbon bar. Is it really that bad? Or was this something that could have happened with an alu bar?
 

Huck Banzai

Turbo Monkey
May 8, 2005
2,523
23
Transitory
Did you use carbon prep paste? If not, for future reference, carbon slips easy, the paste will stop rotation of bars, and sliding/slipping of seatposts.

Now as for the 'inherent flexiness' - Unless you're using XC bars, the Carbon should be stiffer than any alu bar, unless its solid alu...

Are the sharp edges burred at all? Emery cloth on the stem edges (light, almost unnoticeable rounding of the sharp edges) and some carbon paste next time!

Hopefully Easton will step up! I've never had to deal with them, but my 07 MonkeyLite DH are still happy as a clam!

EDIT: Re read - the stem twisted, not the bars in the stem? Sounds like alu bars wouldnt have fared any better (aka, DONE).
 
Last edited:


the stem shifted as indicated by the wear mark in the lower right bolt hole. the long cut mark corresponds to the right leading edge of the stem. and the deep gouge is where the bar contacted my Dorado top cap.

Rider error certainly contributed to this happening, but i've been in some nasty crashes before in my E.13 stem / Sunline V1 h-bar combo, and they shrugged it off. the crash was rather low speed, nothing on the bike was damaged except for this. My dorado did not twist within the crowns. again, all bolts were tightened with a park tools torque wrench to spec.

i'm not trying to bitch, just pointing out something that i didn't think about and maybe others didn't also. lest i forget, no-one crashes while riding here on RM.
 
Last edited:
Was your one gallon backpack hydration system adjusted properly? Sometimes if it is not, it will throw your balance off, and you will fall.
I would recommend taking off your helmet visor so it will not get broken
when you fall again.
hey Jer, why don't you take your head out of your ass before you make generalizations?

i'm not exactly a newb.



this happened in that chute de satchem section, just wasn't focusing and tagged my left shoulder on that tree on entry
 
Last edited:

Hellpoker

Chimp
Nov 16, 2008
23
0

Go to 2.47 minute mark. Here i crash with the Havoc Carbon bar taking most of the impact. It resulted in a dent in my demo 8 frame (i suspect the crappy fox 40 specialized bumper) and my fork getting twisted, but no damage to my havoc carbon bar.
 

rewster

Monkey
Feb 3, 2007
245
0
charlotte nc
hey Jer, why don't you take your head out of your ass before you make generalizations?

i'm not exactly a newb.


stuff breaks. "weight wienie'ing" increases said chance of stuff breaking. crashing further increases said odds. a scientific analysis of why said odds fell out of your favor is most certainly in order, as you have kindly provided.

still don't understand what you meant by saying the bolt holes were out of spec. undersizing said holes would create stress risers in the event of a lateral load to the bar=stem failure instead of shift. i'll take shift.

i'm not exactly a newb.
 
Last edited:

Huck Banzai

Turbo Monkey
May 8, 2005
2,523
23
Transitory
hey Jer, why don't you take your head out of your ass before you make generalizations?

i'm not exactly a newb.



this happened in that chute de satchem section, just wasn't focusing and tagged my rt shoulder on that tree on entry
Ah, was this Saturday? I backed up to check on someone - "You ok?", "Yeah, just..." (missed the last part, but it looked like whoever was giving their bike the 3x over.)

Also, you hit the tree on the left side with your right shoulder? Impressive! ;)

The 'cut' mark is only into the coat, and pretty irrelevant, the other I cant see well enough, but if it does cut into the weave, then put those puppies in the bin; it looks like maybe it just chipped off the clear coat. Was the stem torqued adequately?

Have you contacted Easton yet?

That section is the original lame 'trail' at Diablo, all 34' of it! I call it 'Scratch de Scrotum'
 
Last edited:
err...my other "right"..:eek:
this happened opening weekend on saturday. normally, satchem gives me no issues, just a bone headed move on my part. yes, all bolts torqued to spec.


@ kidwoo, i guess i'm not in the cool kids RM club...mind if you let me in? :rolleyes:
 
Last edited:
Shlt, neither am I and that's a VERY good thing.

Come on....you make a special statement to specify you were 'freeriding' and jeremy makes a camelback joke.

That's FUNNY.

fair enough, i guess i'm behind the times and didn't realize freeriding became so pajorative. i was "just riding along"...better? :p

or maybe i need thicker interwebz skin. or less butt hurt
 

Huck Banzai

Turbo Monkey
May 8, 2005
2,523
23
Transitory
:rofl::rofl:
No doubt.
If he thought that was a serious post directed at him, I don't know what else to say.......
well except to say maybe it is time to slide the maxipad down to your butt to catch the hurt.
Ima gonna go back bucko's pump track thread now.
Butthurt is almost as bad as a sandy vag, dont underestimate the pain!
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Last edited:

karpi

Monkey
Apr 17, 2006
904
0
Santiasco, Chile
Sorry to hear that. Im going to higher rise as well. Went to low and even though I dont otb more than usual it put me in a weird position. That flex thing worries me as i wanted to get a set of enve bars after this season.
interesitng to hear you say that. I was all about the super low bar height, but I am now a firm believer that it is directly proportional to your height and ride style.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
interesitng to hear you say that. I was all about the super low bar height, but I am now a firm believer that it is directly proportional to your height and ride style.
Well yeah.....

For a given bike/bb height which is the same across frame sizes, it's silly for a 6'6" rider to have the same slammed bar height that makes sense for a 5'8" rider. If headtube lengths are the same between sizes, then that makes it even more true.
 

tuumbaq

Monkey
Jul 5, 2006
725
0
Squamish BC
I hope you've learned a valuable lesson here today chillindrdude.


If it's about bike riding, it doesn't belong on ridemonkey. Don't ever forget that.


Wait till tuumbaq sees THIS thread.

http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=242213
What, wait a minute, I was simply quoting his on own wording, I dont care what type of riding it is if as long as its interesting to read about , I was pointing the obvious as of why people were making fun of him and chillindrdude himself said he wasnt a newb and opened the door wide open for my "joke"
 

stoney

Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde
Jul 26, 2006
21,644
7,319
Colorado
This is sounding more like a torque and lock-tite issue. Do you have a torque wrench?
 

Huck Banzai

Turbo Monkey
May 8, 2005
2,523
23
Transitory
Well yeah.....

For a given bike/bb height which is the same across frame sizes, it's silly for a 6'6" rider to have the same slammed bar height that makes sense for a 5'8" rider. If headtube lengths are the same between sizes, then that makes it even more true.
Ha! Nice to hear! I think it applies to some degree to bar width too; wide bars def add "power steering" but set some smaller riders up overextended.

Ill get my new rig pic up soon, but 888 with crowns maxed AND 2" risers, feels awesome (6'8") - I fail enough without an undersized setup contributing to it.....