[MtnbikeMike]

(5) If his pedal hit the course marker, how did his handlebar, which sticks out farther, not hit it? Hmmmm...........

He was taking an outside line, clipped it with his outside pedal, leaning into the turn. Just clarifying.

 

[Zutroy]

the legal trails at big bear sucked anyway. big deal if they close the lift. you can still shuttle the "good" trails.

Reason why the illegal trails aren't going to go away. Those trails were built by locals and will be shuttled by the locals just the same as always. Doesn't really do much to solve the problem of illegal trails.

 

[amateur]

FYI hands/feet are considered 6% in burns. The back is 9. Why is this? burns to the hands/feet are usually more prone to problems. Coffee is hot, deal with it.

As for the closure of BB, definately not the answer. I raced at BB on a trail I had ridden numerous times, yet crashed on a race run, separated my shoulder, broke my collar bone, and destroyed a couple of nerves in my hip. Am I entitled to sue because I can't feel my hip? I don't think so. It sucks that this guy sustained a life altering injury, however there are many similar stories where people go on and become part of the sport again rather than closing a mountain. Racing is tough, things happened that you not only don't expect but don't anticipate. This lack of accountability on a nation wide level really pisses me off.

 

[TYM]

SoCal downhillers are upset about losing a great riding and racing spot. I understand the passion, the blind devotion, the selfishness. It's all about getting that next perfect run, getting faster, winning races. On one side of the equation, maybe a thousand people must adjust to the loss of the Snow Summit Sky Chair. On the other side, you have a family that's permanently affected and a guy who will never enjoy the things we take for granted. Which weighs heavier, the inconvenience of a thousand, or the devastation of one? I guess that depends on your perspective.

I don't think any of the So Cal downhillers are being selfish or unsympathetic. Taking away summer access won't help him recover. I doubt it will make him or his family feel any better. It's a moot point anyway. SS was just looking for an excuse to exclude the "evil sue happy downhillers" they so despise. Beyond being paralyzed the poor guy just became their scape goat.

I wonder what the fall out would be if the tables were turned. Suppose a So Cal racer got hurt at a Northstar race. Same situation, he was paralyzed and had to sue to make ends meet. I bet the biggest comment would be "stupid So Cal ... should have stayed home and raced the fire roads at BB."

 

[thaflyinfatman]

Can we stop asking "WHAT IF HE HIT A TREE OR ROCK? WTF!!!!??? WOULD HE STILL SUE THEN? ****ING PUSSY!"

He hit neither a tree nor a rock. So it really doesn't matter what he would have done if it was a tree or rock. Surely you can see the difference between a natural feature of the mountain and a man made course marker?

Um, actually it's 100% relevant. All of trees, rocks, AND man-made course markers are part of the course and you have to avoid them as you see fit. If you can't do so, you're either riding dangerously (at your own choice) or you're unable to ride the course full stop. It's not anyone else's job to make sure that you know what you have to do to avoid stuff, it's hardly unusual for a course marker to be used to, um, mark the edge of a course...

Say the course marker wasn't there, but a tree was. Say the same thing happened, he hit this jump or whatever, and clipped the tree, crashed. Same cause. Same effect. But whose fault would it be that time? It'd still be his.

 

[Silver]

Let me put this another way...

Do you think this thread would even be here if he had clipped his pedal on a rock?

 

[erikkellison]

This thread would be here if he was suing for injuries sustained from hitting a rock.
This thread would not be here if he wasn't suing for injuries sustained from hitting a rock.
It's that simple. It's not so much what he hit as it is what he's doing as a result of getting injured, although obviously what he hit can play a part in who's at fault. However, regardless of what we don't know save some course-marker-sniper moving the rebar at random, it is apparent that the rider is more at fault, and it is nearly pointless to debate just how much at fault he is until we get the low-down, if we ever do get it (memories of OJ and the failure of media to ever give us the real low-down come to mind).
This thread makes me want to move to Canada.

 

[Silver]

If he had clipped his pedal on a rock, he wouldn't have sued. A lawyer would have said, "You have no chance of winning" and that would have been that.

So, it's pointless to wonder about a rock. A lawyer hears "rebar" and thinks maybe he can make a case out of it. Maybe he's got one. I don't know.

 

[Zark]

If he had clipped his pedal on a rock, he wouldn't have sued. A lawyer would have said, "You have no chance of winning" and that would have been that.

So, it's pointless to wonder about a rock. A lawyer hears "rebar" and thinks maybe he can make a case out of it. Maybe he's got one. I don't know.

I got a spy photo of the lawyer taking the case

 

[Silver]

I got a spy photo of the lawyer taking the case

I hope not. Vinny won

 

[SlackBoy]

Trees can't move, pvc can't slip off of trees, and it's hard to say that you didn't see the tree on the side of the course. If he had hit a tree, I'd be solely in Big Bear's camp. As it is, I don't have enough info to judge.

Doesn't matter whter or not he clipped the rebar and the pvc was or wasn't on. The same thing would happened. An uncovered rebar will have the same impact on a pedal as a pvc covered one.

Me, I'm just glad I live in New Zealand, go the public healthcare systems and ACC (accident compensation). Even better, Free ambo's in wellington

 

[BigEBiker]

most of lee's article made my stomach turn in pain. he said that most people wouldn't consider permanent disability part of the sport. imo if you don't consider that part of the sport, quit, stop riding right now, seriously, get the **** out of the sport. he can't be serious about that point, when you get out of bed in the morning there are thousands of possiblities of being injured or killed. and then accusing people of being selfish, honestly, give me a break, i hope he was kidding when he said that, or at least trying to start an arguement. this is just not the attitude this sport needs or should have. we fight everyone else trying to closing our riding spots, the last thing we need is one of our own fighting us too.

if you don't accept the fact that you could die doing whatever it is you do, stop doing it. simple as that. just because you shouldn't die or get hurt from something, doesn't meen it won't happen

this post is responding to lee's article, not the whole suit thing,
ps, i like lee a bunch, just not his view about this issue

 

[narlus]

When some jackazz Skiier ran over Denise's snowboard and pushed her into a sign, breaking her leg in 5 spots with bone sticking out and everything (and he then proceeded to tell her to "Suck it up"), we didn't sue.

i hope you gave him the beatdown of his life and a skipole enema.

 

[narlus]

That would be a tough call, but that's not what happend here, from what has been written. There are all sorts of what ifs you could ask...what if a rider moved it? what is someone crashed in front of him and he hit him...is the guy that crashed at fault?

You also talk about the course changing as the race progresses... What do you suggest then? That everyone walk the course between each run to see what little rock moved where...

the difference here is intent. if someone knowingly and willingly moved the marker, then i would say there might be a case. in the instances above, those are random, not intentional events (ie, rocks jarred loose from other riders, other riders crashing, etc). if someone purposely moved a marker between runs, that is different imo.

 

[Brian HCM#1]

 

[bibs]

the poor is dead! :evil:

 

[Acadian]

I like this one better

 

[-BB-]

i hope you gave him the beatdown of his life and a skipole enema.

Unfortunatly it was the first day of "girlz Ski Weekend".
I was 3 hours away in SF.

I got home from work on Friday and there was a message on the machine.
"Hi, Jeff? This is Shawn. Denise is in the emergency room having surgery... You might want to get up here."
:nuts:

 

[zedro]

i like marionettes. They scare the crap outta me.

 

[Slacker]

That's a great idea...it does, however, assume that TBB (Edit: I mean, Snow Summit...I'm sure TBB wants it) really wants to keep racing around. They might use us in court (or before it, to leverage things), but still close the mountain afterwards...I mean, it's easy enough to say (possibly quite honestly), "The mere chance of this happening again makes it financially impossible for us to run a summer DH bike season."

I'm sure they wouldn't feel that way if they felt there was money in DH biking, of course...

I hear ya, but personally I've already written off BB. It's time for damage control and to think of our brothers/sistas around the rest of the country. We all know the domino effect this can produce. Let's focus on our brethren, if we gain something here locally, well, that would be sweet too.

 

[Edgy]

I'm not putting blame on BB but because I rode there quite often this last summer , I can say this. BB's judgement just doesn't always make sense. For example on Westridege when you come out of the first tree section, you come down hit the table and then go down through the small rockgarden. Many of you that ride there know that right before you hit the rock garden, BB cut a tree down and its layin down with the cut section pointing right at you just before you hit the rock garden. It's about 6-7" in diameter. I havent crashed there but I can bet you that someone will or did and that cut section is just waiting to impale someone or someone can easlily go face first into that thang. Me and my buds call it "Lex the Imapler". It does seem that it would take very little effort by BB staff to simply move that cut tree and avoid a consequential injury. The crash won't kill you, but hitting that tree after you crash might??

There are other sections of other trials there where similar mentality has been applied.
I'm not saying make the trails less gnarly or ? but lets minimize the chance of consequential or indirect injury.

My sympathies to the injured rider but this sport is one that the participant knows fully well...can kill you and if you ride, you have to accept and know that could happen to you too.

 

[zedro]

I hear ya, but personally I've already written off BB. It's time for damage control and to think of our brothers/sistas around the rest of the country. We all know the domino effect this can produce. Let's focus on our brethren, if we gain something here locally, well, that would be sweet too.

i dont know the area (or the coast) but it could be a good oppertunity for another mountain to pick up the slack, and market it that way.

 

[OGRipper]

Well maybe Zedro but I'm still not convinced it's that great on opportunity, at last from from the money side anyway. (There are better reasons to do it of course, but come on money is the reason resorts open for bikes.) With all the overhead (including insurance, employees, equipment, utitilites, etc.), they need to sell an awful lot of tickets to make any dough at all. The numbers are confidential, we'll never know but I just keep thinking that they would find a way to stay open if they were raking it in the way lots of people here assume.

 

[heikkihall]

I think this is Heikki Hall at Nats.

"Big Bear and the pubs here suck. Cheers!" -Peaty

Woah thats nuts. Check out the form almost identical Now I have no excuse why Im so much slower than him.