[Jeremy R]

I remember when I first got into Mountain biking. I was so green and enthusiastic and I was telling everyone I ran into that they should try it. Then one day, I ran into a good friend of mine from high school who happened to be black. We were talking and catching up, and I told him all about mountain biking and how he should try it. He paused and got silent and I asked him what was up. He hesitated again and then said, "Remember in school when you had a car, and you drove it everywhere you wanted. Well, I had to ride a bike then if I wanted to go anywhere. So while you were driving around with girls in your car, I was on a bike in this Carolina heat. And I told myself, if I ever got a car, I was never touching a bike again."
That shit sat with me and taught me a valuable lesson.

 

[kidwoo]

I remember when I first got into Mountain biking. I was so green and enthusiastic and I was telling everyone I ran into that they should try it. Then one day, I ran into a good friend of mine from high school who happened to be black. We were talking and catching up, and I told him all about mountain biking and how he should try it. He paused and got silent and I asked him what was up. He hesitated again and then said, "Remember in school when you had a car, and you drove it everywhere you wanted. Well, I had to ride bike then if I wanted to go anywhere. So while you were driving around with girls in your car, I was on a bike in this Carolina heat. And I told myself, if I ever got a car, I was never touching a bike again."
That shit sat with me and taught me a valuable lesson.

You should reach out and introduce him to the idea of 'shuttle trails'

Drive him up a few times.

 

[Muddy]

Biking began w/ competitive BMX in a small state series, many riders. 'Biking While Black' was the phrase from a nearby local one day at the track, a fast Expert who is Black still today...
Barely into Teens then, I remember having to adjust to this new concept where a person of color is left unable to be recognized w/ achievment and the respect given the volume-majority in non-traditonal sport like BMX.
Would race against each other for half--season due age change; he stayed w/ racing far beyond my 3 years. In fact travels the Olympic BMX envoy as a coach.

Dunno about the future sometimes today.

Sometimes I'm given an impression I'm not White enough for others, like a 'Radar if tolerant to non-whites' goes off like a 1980's in-car Passport and automatic doors at the mall.

 

[iRider]

Are you saying that the unwelcoming environment doesn't matter or that it doesn't exist? Or perhaps something else?

I am saying that it doesn't matter if exists or doesn't, if someone is not interested in mountain biking to begin with. Like I, for example, do not care on how welcoming the local knitting club is and how much it would cost to pursue this hobby. No matter how much they advertise it or give me free stuff, this is not something I am interested in. Same goes for mountain biking: it attracts a certain demographic, which is often male and white. Yes, we can try to make the sport more attractive for other parts of the population, but why? If they think it is a cool sport they will find it and make it work for them, like many of us did.

 

[Jm_]

I am saying that it doesn't matter if exists or doesn't, if someone is not interested in mountain biking to begin with. Like I, for example, do not care on how welcoming the local knitting club is and how much it would cost to pursue this hobby. No matter how much they advertise it or give me free stuff, this is not something I am interested in. Same goes for mountain biking: it attracts a certain demographic, which is often male and white. Yes, we can try to make the sport more attractive for other parts of the population, but why? If they think it is a cool sport they will find it and make it work for them, like many of us did.

IMO, it's more a matter of opportunity and access.

The healthy lifestyle options get incredibly more difficult when you live in the inner city. Sure, you can play some basket ball maybe, but that only does so much. There are gyms, but who the hell wants to go to the gym? IMO, it's not about the race, it's the opportunity and access, which is unequal when we look across races, but given the same opportunities and exposure to a healthy lifestyle, I think far more people would go for it.

 

[iRider]

The healthy lifestyle options get incredibly more difficult when you live in the inner city.

Wait, you just called mountain bike riding a healthy lifestyle option??? Do you see how often people post injuries here?

IMO, it's not about the race, it's the opportunity and access, which is unequal when we look across races, but given the same opportunities and exposure to a healthy lifestyle, I think far more people would go for it.

You might be right to a certain extend. But my experience seems to differ, maybe something is different in Europe?
Growing up and as young adult I had a quite some friends, class mates, fellow students that have a migration background (mainly from Turkey). Naturally my riding buddies and me tried to get them into mountain biking but w/o success. They had the opportunities, were living in the same neighborhoods and costs were not an issue (some of them later got into the car tuning scene, sweet ///M3s).
In contrast, I managed to get a fair amount of people hooked on mountain biking by taking them out on one of my bikes, taking them to the pumptrack and helping them with bike purchases, repairs, maintenance. All are Caucasian, nearly all have a higher degree of education and are outdoorsy people. Until about 5 years ago these were all males, but in the last years I also got 3 women into the sport. Here the same applies: females had the opportunities all along, but their interest was not there. Now it is, but why is unclear to me. But I appreciate that the sport is diversifying.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

The freedom to be: Defining white privilege and white supremacy

It is impossible to describe white supremacy without detailing what it means to be a Black person in America.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[jdcamb]

Wait, you just called mountain bike riding a healthy lifestyle option??? Do you see how often people post injuries here?



You might be right to a certain extend. But my experience seems to differ, maybe something is different in Europe?
Growing up and as young adult I had a quite some friends, class mates, fellow students that have a migration background (mainly from Turkey). Naturally my riding buddies and me tried to get them into mountain biking but w/o success. They had the opportunities, were living in the same neighborhoods and costs were not an issue (some of them later got into the car tuning scene, sweet ///M3s).
In contrast, I managed to get a fair amount of people hooked on mountain biking by taking them out on one of my bikes, taking them to the pumptrack and helping them with bike purchases, repairs, maintenance. All are Caucasian, nearly all have a higher degree of education and are outdoorsy people. Until about 5 years ago these were all males, but in the last years I also got 3 women into the sport. Here the same applies: females had the opportunities all along, but their interest was not there. Now it is, but why is unclear to me. But I appreciate that the sport is diversifying.

"I also got 3 women into the sport" Clearly you're a Wizard....

 

[iRider]

"I also got 3 women into the sport" Clearly you're a Wizard....

 

[jdcamb]

Wizard = Somebody who has the ability to talk Women into Mountain Biking. I get turned down just offering a ride home in the rain

 

[Montana rider]

And the beat goes on...

I see a critical mass protest in the near future for Northern NJ....

I wonder how many towns have similar (unenforced) biking regulations and related registration fees.

I know you're not allowed to bike on sidewalks on Main St Bozeman for instance.

+++++

Perth Amboy cops seized bikes from ‘unlicensed’ Black and Latino teens, and a social media backlash is raging

Perth Amboy police handcuffed a Black teenager after stopping a group of cyclists that had been riding in a group through city streets.

www.google.com

Part of Perth Amboy's extensive bicycle law reads: "An application for a license to own and operate a bicycle shall be made to the Chief of Police in writing upon a form approved by the City Council. Upon approval of an application, the Chief of Police shall provide, at the expense of the city, a proper license tag which shall be attached to the frame of the bicycle in a substantial manner. The removal of such tag, except by proper authority, shall be a violation of this chapter. A license fee of fifty cents ($0.50) shall be charged per year for each bicycle. Such license shall be issued as of the calendar year and shall be effective for such period."

It also bans "fancy riding":

The rider of a bicycle shall not allow it to proceed in a street by inertia momentum, with his feet removed from the pedals, nor remove both hands from the handlebars while riding the bicycle, nor practice any trick or fancy riding in a street or carry another person upon the bicycle

 

[Westy]

Racial disparities prompt calls to repeal King County’s bicycle helmet law

A number of individuals and organizations are calling for the repeal of King County's mandatory bike helmet law, arguing that it is disproportionately enforced against Black, Native and homeless riders.

www.google.com

 

[jonKranked]

And the beat goes on...

I see a critical mass protest in the near future for Northern NJ....

I wonder how many towns have similar (unenforced) biking regulations and related registration fees.

I know you're not allowed to bike on sidewalks on Main St Bozeman for instance.

+++++

Perth Amboy cops seized bikes from ‘unlicensed’ Black and Latino teens, and a social media backlash is raging

Perth Amboy police handcuffed a Black teenager after stopping a group of cyclists that had been riding in a group through city streets.

www.google.com

Part of Perth Amboy's extensive bicycle law reads: "An application for a license to own and operate a bicycle shall be made to the Chief of Police in writing upon a form approved by the City Council. Upon approval of an application, the Chief of Police shall provide, at the expense of the city, a proper license tag which shall be attached to the frame of the bicycle in a substantial manner. The removal of such tag, except by proper authority, shall be a violation of this chapter. A license fee of fifty cents ($0.50) shall be charged per year for each bicycle. Such license shall be issued as of the calendar year and shall be effective for such period."

It also bans "fancy riding":

The rider of a bicycle shall not allow it to proceed in a street by inertia momentum, with his feet removed from the pedals, nor remove both hands from the handlebars while riding the bicycle, nor practice any trick or fancy riding in a street or carry another person upon the bicycle

 

[MikeD]

What I find interesting is that he emphasizes how important it is to see others that "look like you" on the trail. But why? Why would you make your participation in an activity dependent on the looks of the others? Getting together and having a good time has nothing to do with gender, skin color, etc.. .... I wasn't exposed to the sport or it was presented to me, but rather found it myself. I faced the same issues funding my entry into it as he describes, but I really wanted it and made it happen.

Your experience. Your experience is shaped by who you are. It's not everyone's experience...try listening and appreciating someone else's perspective that does not match yours.

I was never presented with a barrier to cycling, implicit or explicit, by my race and riding a bike was basically a suburban birthright to me. I never had to prove my ownership of a bike or face suspicion and though I grew up firmly lower middle class there was always always a bike for me to ride. That's not everyone's story.

 

[iRider]

Your experience. Your experience is shaped by who you are. It's not everyone's experience...try listening and appreciating someone else's perspective that does not match yours.

I do. I work in a multicultural environment, I think we currently have 12 nations within approx. 40 persons in my unit. All come from different backgrounds, developed to third world countries, all work hard to achieve their goals. While some had bigger barriers to overcome, they all really wanted to get to this point, so they found ways to do so.

My point here is, if you REALLY want it, it should not matter how many "like you" are doing this job/sport/lifestyle. You are intrinsicly motivated and will find a way to overcome barriers.

 

[Changleen]

I hate to roll this out as I think it is quite tired, but if what you said was correct African women would all be multimillionaires.

 

[MikeD]

I do. I work in a multicultural environment, I think we currently have 12 nations within approx. 40 persons in my unit. All come from different backgrounds, developed to third world countries, all work hard to achieve their goals. While some had bigger barriers to overcome, they all really wanted to get to this point, so they found ways to do so.

My point here is, if you REALLY want it, it should not matter how many "like you" are doing this job/sport/lifestyle. You are intrinsicly motivated and will find a way to overcome barriers.

So what you're saying is that you don't get it.

 

[Westy]

Bootstraps

 

[Adventurous]

I do. I work in a multicultural environment, I think we currently have 12 nations within approx. 40 persons in my unit. All come from different backgrounds, developed to third world countries, all work hard to achieve their goals. While some had bigger barriers to overcome, they all really wanted to get to this point, so they found ways to do so.

My point here is, if you REALLY want it, it should not matter how many "like you" are doing this job/sport/lifestyle. You are intrinsicly motivated and will find a way to overcome barriers.

That is all very easy to say when speaking from a position of privilege. The reality is, and this is a reality that many of us may "see" on the surface but never actually experience, is that growing up disadvantaged is incredibly difficult. When your primary focus and challenge is obtaining the necessities to stay alive, it doesn't leave a whole lot of time/energy/resources/focus to devote to things like education. Education is a luxury in many places, and it's a luxury they cannot afford.

This isn't to say that there aren't people who can break the cycle and lift themselves out, cause there are, and there always will be. But that isn't something that everyone has the opportunity to achieve, regardless of their motivational drive. There are gobs of people working harder than you or I could ever realize that will be crushed by systemic forces beyond their control.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

So what you're saying is that you don't get it.

@iRider has repeatedly demonstrated that he doesn't and doesn't want to get it.

 

[jonKranked]

My point here is, if you REALLY want it, it should not matter how many "like you" are doing this job/sport/lifestyle. You are intrinsicly motivated and will find a way to overcome barriers.

the point you're missing - the problem is that there are barriers based on nationality/skin color in the first place.

 

[iRider]

@iRider has repeatedly demonstrated that he doesn't and doesn't want to get it.

Maybe I have a different perspective not having grown up in the US???
I do get it and acknowledge that there are challenges, but stay honest, we are talking about access to an elite sport and not racial injustice in society here. The title of the thread is "biking while black". Why can we not acknowledge that people do have different interests based on their gender, race, upbringing, communities they live in? Mountain biking does not have to be totally representative of the population average, nor do other sports and activities.
This is different for political and societal organisations and institutions, where we need a representation of the population with all its diversity. I think the discussion if we are lacking participation of certain groups of the population in a fringe sport is distracting from the real problem and the discussions we should have instead.

 

[boostindoubles]

 

[StiHacka]

Maybe I have a different perspective not having grown up in the US???

Right, it's their the original sin.

 

[jonKranked]

Right, it's their the original sin.

America was founded on religious intolerance, racism, and dinosaurs.

 

[Changleen]

America was founded on religious intolerance, racism, and dinosaurs.

Don’t forget genocide and land theft. Y’all really nailed it.

 

[Westy]

Don’t forget genocide and land theft. Y’all really nailed it.

Not a uniquely American concept

New Zealand land confiscations - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Changleen]

Yes it wasn’t great but we’re doing something about it.

Treaty of Waitangi claims and settlements - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Westy]

Yes it wasn’t great but we’re doing something about it.

Treaty of Waitangi claims and settlements - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

A nation's worth of settling for failing to satisfy extremely equitable treaties at 0.5% of GDP. I bet you can fall asleep feeling pretty damn proud.

Nice to see that imperialism really worked out well somewhere. Sorry about the recent death in your monarchy.

 

[Changleen]

Fuck the UK and basically every monarchy. Sky fairy shit.

 

[Changleen]

Also, still being very racist and continuing to introduce racist law is not equal to trying very hard to not be racist and doing lots of concrete things in law and society to reinforce that. This is why you can actually ride a bike whilst being non-pakeha here in NZ.

 

[MikeD]

Maybe I have a different perspective not having grown up in the US???

... I think the discussion if we are lacking participation of certain groups of the population in a fringe sport is distracting from the real problem and the discussions we should have instead.

It's about a lot more than that. This isn't the luge.

 

[kidwoo]

Also, still being very racist and continuing to introduce racist law is not equal to trying very hard to not be racist and doing lots of concrete things in law and society to reinforce that. This is why you can actually ride a bike whilst being non-pakeha here in NZ.

There's really no amount of anything that can make up for the damage european colonialism wrought on the world. We literally took continents from people. Land, gov't, culture, lives.......you can't make that okay without basically just getting out of the way. Which no white settler will ever do. Of course now we just call colonialism and oppressive labor...... "investments!"

 

[Bike078]

I'm Asian and never been to the US. From time to time I hear or read terms like the problem with "whiteness" and "white guilt". Are these ideas widespread especially in schools? I read this article by a teacher that said:

"My school, like so many others, induces students via shame and sophistry to identify primarily with their race before their individual identities are fully formed. Students are pressured to conform their opinions to those broadly associated with their race and gender and to minimize or dismiss individual experiences that don’t match those assumptions. The morally compromised status of “oppressor” is assigned to one group of students based on their immutable characteristics. In the meantime, dependency, resentment and moral superiority are cultivated in students considered “oppressed.”

Source: https://bariweiss.substack.com/p/i-refuse-to-stand-by-while-my-students

My country was colonized by the Spanish, Americans and the Japanese who all committed horrible atrocities. For the American contribution see the Balangiga Massacre.

How widespread is racism in the US? Do you white boys feel guilty for the sins of your fathers and the color of your skin and think of yourselves as oppressors? Or do you acknowledge that you have some unearned privilege but then go and try your best to make the world a better place for everyone?

One guy I knew mentioned the Japanese occupation of the Philippines to a group of Japanese tourists who then bowed their heads in shame and apologized profusely. These guys have a knack of making it seem genuine. What I see from when the Americans do it today regarding racism, sexism, etc. is that it seems performative and signaling to their fellows how virtuous they are.

 

[jonKranked]

I'm Asian and never been to the US. From time to time I hear or read terms like the problem with "whiteness" and "white guilt". Are these ideas widespread especially in schools? I read this article by a teacher that said:

"My school, like so many others, induces students via shame and sophistry to identify primarily with their race before their individual identities are fully formed. Students are pressured to conform their opinions to those broadly associated with their race and gender and to minimize or dismiss individual experiences that don’t match those assumptions. The morally compromised status of “oppressor” is assigned to one group of students based on their immutable characteristics. In the meantime, dependency, resentment and moral superiority are cultivated in students considered “oppressed.”

Source: https://bariweiss.substack.com/p/i-refuse-to-stand-by-while-my-students

My country was colonized by the Spanish, Americans and the Japanese who all committed horrible atrocities. For the American contribution see the Balangiga Massacre.

How widespread is racism in the US? Do you white boys feel guilty for the sins of your fathers and the color of your skin and think of yourselves as oppressors? Or do you acknowledge that you have some unearned privilege but then go and try your best to make the world a better place for everyone?

One guy I knew mentioned the Japanese occupation of the Philippines to a group of Japanese tourists who then bowed their heads in shame and apologized profusely. These guys have a knack of making it seem genuine. What I see from when the Americans do it today regarding racism, sexism, etc. is that it seems performative and signaling to their fellows how virtuous they are.

woof there's a lot to unpack here, and i don't have enough coffee in me for all of it yet.

that article is drivel. it was written by a private christian school teacher, who - right from the get go I assumed was going to be a white denier of racism - and boy howdy after reading the first few paragraphs was my assumption right. that article checks off a lot of the talking points used by far right white nationalists and hides them as "won't somebody think of the children" as a way to make them palatable to people that don't traditionally identify as white nationalists. they want to indoctrinate another generation into the thought process of white supremacy. it ignores LOTS of things, which brings me to my next point....

How widespread is racism in the US?

this country was built on it, figuratively and literally. it was built on the backs of slave labor. these slaves were owned by white christian men who felt it was their god given right to subjugate them and own them, and that "it was for their own good". which is all bullshit. there's books and books out there written on this subject, the kind of which the writer of that article prefer to ignore.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

I'm Asian and never been to the US. From time to time I hear or read terms like the problem with "whiteness" and "white guilt". Are these ideas widespread especially in schools? I read this article by a teacher that said:

"My school, like so many others, induces students via shame and sophistry to identify primarily with their race before their individual identities are fully formed. Students are pressured to conform their opinions to those broadly associated with their race and gender and to minimize or dismiss individual experiences that don’t match those assumptions. The morally compromised status of “oppressor” is assigned to one group of students based on their immutable characteristics. In the meantime, dependency, resentment and moral superiority are cultivated in students considered “oppressed.”

Source: https://bariweiss.substack.com/p/i-refuse-to-stand-by-while-my-students

My country was colonized by the Spanish, Americans and the Japanese who all committed horrible atrocities. For the American contribution see the Balangiga Massacre.

How widespread is racism in the US? Do you white boys feel guilty for the sins of your fathers and the color of your skin and think of yourselves as oppressors? Or do you acknowledge that you have some unearned privilege but then go and try your best to make the world a better place for everyone?

One guy I knew mentioned the Japanese occupation of the Philippines to a group of Japanese tourists who then bowed their heads in shame and apologized profusely. These guys have a knack of making it seem genuine. What I see from when the Americans do it today regarding racism, sexism, etc. is that it seems performative and signaling to their fellows how virtuous they are.

Racism is widespread and there is built in pressure to conform to stereotyped roles. History is taught in a whitewashed form. Opposition to all this is mostly lip service.

 

[Bike078]

woof there's a lot to unpack here, and i don't have enough coffee in me for all of it yet.

that article is drivel. it was written by a private christian school teacher, who - right from the get go I assumed was going to be a white denier of racism - and boy howdy after reading the first few paragraphs was my assumption right. that article checks off a lot of the talking points used by far right white nationalists and hides them as "won't somebody think of the children" as a way to make them palatable to people that don't traditionally identify as white nationalists. they want to indoctrinate another generation into the thought process of white supremacy. it ignores LOTS of things, which brings me to my next point....



this country was built on it, figuratively and literally. it was built on the backs of slave labor. these slaves were owned by white christian men who felt it was their god given right to subjugate them and own them, and that "it was for their own good". which is all bullshit. there's books and books out there written on this subject, the kind of which the writer of that article prefer to ignore.

Thanks for your opinion @jonKranked . Do you think there are a lot of these white supremacists/nationalists out there trying to ensure that whites will always have the upper hand?

I know a lot of people, many from my high school, who went to the US, worked hard, and are now living good lives over there. They always say if you work hard in America you will succeed. Is this true for everyone of all races?

Do you worry about the far left or "woke" left ideas in the universities? See new real peer review twitter or the grievance studies affair for examples. I don't teach but I hope these ideas don't make it to my university although I am quite sure that social scientists here are concerned with pressing real world issues.

 

[jonKranked]

Thanks for your opinion @jonKranked . Do you think there are a lot of these white supremacists/nationalists out there trying to ensure that whites will always have the upper hand?

Yes. Including many elected officials.

I know a lot of people, many from my high school, who went to the US, worked hard, and are now living good lives over there. They always say if you work hard in America you will succeed. Is this true for everyone of all races?

No.

Do you worry about the far left or "woke" left ideas in the universities? See new real peer review twitter or the grievance studies affair for examples. I don't teach but I hope these ideas don't make it to my university although I am quite sure that social scientists here are concerned with pressing real world issues.

The term "woke" is used by right wing groups to vilify anyone that disagrees with right wing ideologies. That's important to remember any time you hear someone using that term. And they use it to perpetuate an "us vs them" mindset.

 

[jonKranked]

Another important distinction to bear in mind, is that of political spectrum. Anyone in the US that's referred to as "far left" would be just left of center/moderate in most other societies.

 

[Bike078]

Another important distinction to bear in mind, is that of political spectrum. Anyone in the US that's referred to as "far left" would be just left of center/moderate in most other societies.

It seems your country is deeply divided. Do you think the moderates on the left and the right can do anything about it?