This could be true, ground effect can do strange things. Might be exacerbated by the fact that they were within the confined space of the compound.
Bin Laden is Dead!!!
- Thread starter mattmatt86
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I assumed altitude too, but the the city is actually a thousand feet lower than Denver.
I'd be surprised if it was altitude....I would assume that the pilot(s) had been flying around there for a while and are used to it...unless they just pulled out the super secret aircraft for this occasion, and they truly didn't know it very well.
But I'd be more inclined to think it was a situational awareness thing, or they got shot.
Basically, I've no idea. It could have been anything.
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/defense/index.jsp?plckController=Blog&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&newspaperUserId=27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7&plckPostId=Blog:27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7Post:275902dd-e7a2-40fd-ab78-d46e3bf922b1&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest
But I'd be more inclined to think it was a situational awareness thing, or they got shot.
Basically, I've no idea. It could have been anything.
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/defense/index.jsp?plckController=Blog&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&newspaperUserId=27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7&plckPostId=Blog:27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7Post:275902dd-e7a2-40fd-ab78-d46e3bf922b1&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest
hmmmm.
tail section looks like the one that wrecked
Doesn't a helo rotor move air from above to below the helicopter?? (not that this provides the lift itself) Unless the compound had a roof they flew under, my caveman brain thinks this sound strange. Open sky has a lot of air in it.
And given the way things work in the 'stan..... I'd be picking that some gentlemen of Asian extraction have been having quite a good look at the remaining bits by now.
Vortex Ring State? One report I read indicated it was warmer than anticipated and the helo "stalled" (VRS+high density altitude) and landed "hard". I know a normal Blackhawk can land VERY hard and still be flyable so again we're just speculating here...........
Yeah there's no way to know really....the pilot could have sneezed while hovering and clipped the wall.
Maybe the walls of the compound "contained" the turbulent downwash from the helo to such an extent that the it's now effectively descending through it's own downwash.
Yes, but the question you must ask is, what happens to the air once it has passed through the rotor? Where do it go?
When hovering in ground effect, in a big empty field, the air basically just moves away from the aircraft along the ground. But if there are walls around for that air to bounce off of, and deflect back towards the aircraft....that can have an effect.
yes...that
This is about as reliable a source as it gets
http://www.verticalmag.com/control/news/templates/?a=16848&z=1
http://www.verticalmag.com/control/news/templates/?a=16848&z=1
30 years ago I would have been confused as to why they were using outdated tech like helos in 2011 and not jetpacks.
I find it interesting that they didn't use a V-22.....I thought this was the sort of thing they were meant for. Of course not the quietest things ever......
Doesn't the V-22 have a poor track record? It would be ironic though, "Osama Bin Laden killed when special forces aircraft crashes into his compound"
Was wondering about something like that...but it's still not same as "running out of air because of the walls..." Do appreciate the diagram.Yes, but the question you must ask is, what happens to the air once it has passed through the rotor? Where do it go?
When hovering in ground effect, in a big empty field, the air basically just moves away from the aircraft along the ground. But if there are walls around for that air to bounce off of, and deflect back towards the aircraft....that can have an effect.
the bigger wingspan probably couldnt fit into the tight confines of the compound. plus, arent the Marines and AF the only ones using them?
Maybe not as stealthy as the high-zoot H-60 variant? And are they being fielded by special ops aviation squadrons anyhow?
yes, they do make quite a thud when they crash
The unit that supplied the aircraft was the US Army's 160th Special Operations Regiment (SOAR), it could be that Osprey's weren't considered because the 160th doesn't fly them........
This. Those guys were in enough danger already without sticking them in one of those things.
Can you imagine how bad it would have been (PR-wise) if bin laden had escaped because of the crash? It's funny how people are glossing over such a catastrophic event like a helicopter crash!
so does anybody know how the team six rumor got started? I keep hearing team six this and team six that, and all these retired SEALs from 40 years ago talking about it. From my understanding, there are no experts on team six because the only ones that know any info won't talk about it. And if it were executed by six then nobody would know but SPECWARCOM and higher. Finally, most active duty SEALs are fully trained in fastroping, CQB/room clearing and every other skill used in such a raid. It's just been bugging me for the past couple of days...
Its all legend building. Tell the world it was Team 6, give them a focus and they forget about the rest. JSOC is hush hush, but they also like to put out lots of disinformation.
On the Osprey issue, not only are they not flown by the Nigthstalkers, but to my knowledge they still dont have any weapons hanging off the sides. Cant provide cover fire for extraction. Thoughts?
On the Osprey issue, not only are they not flown by the Nigthstalkers, but to my knowledge they still dont have any weapons hanging off the sides. Cant provide cover fire for extraction. Thoughts?
Technically there is no "SEAL Team Six" there is the Naval Special Warfare Development Group (DEVGRU) that is the Navy's Tier One conter terrorism and special missions unit........the Navy's version of the Army's 1st Special Forces Operational Detachment - Delta (Delta Force).
CNN has had on a Montana Senator who was in Team 6 and has talked about their general jobs that they would do.
Ryan Zinke, they interviewed him on NPR as well..........
Out the rear ramp they do (7.62 type), and I think there are door gun mounts in the works for up front.
One of the arguments made against them in general, doctrinally, for a long time.
How do you escort them? Cobras are too slow, fast-movers are too fast and have a harder time self-designating targets...
The opinion of a pilot on the helicopter forum I frequent
This is true, but ramp gun does no good when ramp is closed, and who wants to egress into the teeth of a 240 manned by an adrenaline crazed gunner when open? Only good for suppressive fire from the air.
Door gun idea is nice, but the tilt rotorwing interfers with it, making it un useable half the time.
That thing is a football bat...they developed and tested it here and I was always amazed and frightened when they flew over the house...
Tactical nuke.
No idea, but if it was a joint CIA op., then it was probably ST6 (or whatever they are officially called - the DEVGRU name was retired ages ago.) ST6 has worked with the CIA extensively for ages, which is one reason why everyone keeps so much about them so damn quiet.
Delta Force has as well
ST6 Rules:
#1 You do not talk about ST6.
#2 YOU DO NOT TALK ABOUT ST6
#1 You do not talk about ST6.
#2 YOU DO NOT TALK ABOUT ST6
Oh hey there Tom Clancy. Didn't know you post here.
Unless you wanna write crappy paperbacks about it.