Quantcast

BioFuel

stosh

Darth Bailer
Jul 20, 2001
22,238
393
NY
Just ordered some Bio Fuel from a local supplier for my heating oil. I'm pretty excited!!!!
 

dan-o

Turbo Monkey
Jun 30, 2004
6,499
2,805
Get a spare filter for your furnace, bio will strip all the sludge off your pipes/tank and may clog the filter. You'll probably get less heat per tank as well as bio packs less energy than dino. I noticed both side-effects when running bio in my truck.
 

stosh

Darth Bailer
Jul 20, 2001
22,238
393
NY
Get a spare filter for your furnace, bio will strip all the sludge off your pipes/tank and may clog the filter. You'll probably get less heat per tank as well as bio packs less energy than dino. I noticed both side-effects when running bio in my truck.
Thanks for the heads up!
 

IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,524
494
Im over here now
Get a spare filter for your furnace, bio will strip all the sludge off your pipes/tank and may clog the filter. You'll probably get less heat per tank as well as bio packs less energy than dino. I noticed both side-effects when running bio in my truck.
:thumb::thumb:
great advice here
 

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
40,942
13,135
Portland, OR
Get a spare filter for your furnace, bio will strip all the sludge off your pipes/tank and may clog the filter. You'll probably get less heat per tank as well as bio packs less energy than dino. I noticed both side-effects when running bio in my truck.
My truck seems to run about the same mpg. Not great, about 18mpg average dino or B99. My engine is bone stock 7.3, I have been told an intake, exhaust, and programmer will add up to 5mpg. I know GFF gets insane mileage in his 6.4l.

But yes, change the filer or get a secondary. It will flush the system nicely, though.
 

dan-o

Turbo Monkey
Jun 30, 2004
6,499
2,805
I certainly don't claim to be an expert since I only have my truck to compare with. That said, I don't see how a fuel with less energy can deliver better MPG (stock or tuned). I stopped running bio (b20) a while back due to the increased cost locally, MPG hit and because I prefer the way the truck runs on dino.
 

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
40,942
13,135
Portland, OR
I certainly don't claim to be an expert since I only have my truck to compare with. That said, I don't see how a fuel with less energy can deliver better MPG (stock or tuned). I stopped running bio (b20) a while back due to the increased cost locally, MPG hit and because I prefer the way the truck runs on dino.
Bio can't do better for that very reason, but modding my truck would gain mpg regardless of the fuel I use. I actually feel like my truck runs smoother and quieter on bio and the $.50/gallon tax break means my bio was only $1.98/gallon vs. $2.89 for dino.

Unfortunately there is only one station here and it's $3.25 a gallon for bio and is a pain in the ass to get to.
 

dan-o

Turbo Monkey
Jun 30, 2004
6,499
2,805
Yeah, my station is a PITA to get to also.
My truck, without a doubt, ran quieter on bio. Unfortunately, it seemed to have less sack too. If it was convenient, and equal in cost, I would still run it for summer fuel.
 

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
40,942
13,135
Portland, OR
Yeah, my station is a PITA to get to also.
My truck, without a doubt, ran quieter on bio. Unfortunately, it seemed to have less sack too. If it was convenient, and equal in cost, I would still run it for summer fuel.
Less sack, huh? I thought mine started easier and had a bit more initial punch. Could have just been the hippie in me was happier.

The card lock station near Portland was very easy and there was never anyone there. It was B99 until winter, then they switched it to B50. They recommended blending it down to B20 if temps were below freezing overnight.

In Ashland there is a hippie garden center that installed an ATM only pump. But it's on the wrong side, so I would have to back it in to fill up and it's only open when the store is open (even though it's pay at the pump).
 

sstalder5

Turbo Monkey
Aug 20, 2008
1,942
20
Beech Mtn Definitely NOT Boulder
I certainly don't claim to be an expert since I only have my truck to compare with. That said, I don't see how a fuel with less energy can deliver better MPG (stock or tuned). I stopped running bio (b20) a while back due to the increased cost locally, MPG hit and because I prefer the way the truck runs on dino.
I'm no expert either but I'm almost certain gas cars get better mpg off of 87 octane than the 93 octane fuel. I don't know how that works but it seems like it would transfer over to diesel as well.
 

jdcamb

Tool Time!
Feb 17, 2002
19,800
8,383
Nowhere Man!
What about those little overdone bits of chicken wings that end up in the bottom of the fryer. Don't they gunk up your fuel system?
 

buildyourown

Turbo Monkey
Feb 9, 2004
4,832
0
South Seattle
My car certainly ran better with about a 50/50 blend all year long. Didn't notice any hit to power and never did the numbers on mileage.
Wa state doesn't have the tax breaks Or does so we pay a premium for bio.

One huge benefit is the drastic reductions in nasty emissions by running even a B10 blend. This is why I think garbage trucks and school buses and other neighborhood vehicles should be running b20 or better. Better air quality for all. This applies to your furnace too.
 

dan-o

Turbo Monkey
Jun 30, 2004
6,499
2,805
Less sack, huh? I thought mine started easier and had a bit more initial punch. Could have just been the hippie in me was happier.
Could've been my imagination. Less energy means more throttle to attain equal power is my theory. There's only so much fuel the injectors can deliver etc.

The card lock station near Portland was very easy and there was never anyone there. It was B99 until winter, then they switched it to B50. They recommended blending it down to B20 if temps were below freezing overnight.

I think our winter blend is straight kerosene with just enough additives to lubricate the fuel system. I never use additives and haven't gelled @ -20 despite being parked for days. I can look at my mileage logs and tell you exactly the day winter fuel started as MPG plummets
I wish bio had the support it does in portland, minus the white dreads.
 

dan-o

Turbo Monkey
Jun 30, 2004
6,499
2,805
One huge benefit is the drastic reductions in nasty emissions by running even a B10 blend. This is why I think garbage trucks and school buses and other neighborhood vehicles should be running b20 or better. Better air quality for all. This applies to your furnace too.
The emissions was my main motivator. I intentionally bought the last pre-emissions diesel for simplicity's sake but don't relish the black cloud like most diesel gear heads.

I run bio in my furnace now for this reason and prices are comparable to dino. I think the road tax/oil lobby is what jacks up on-road diesel prices.
 

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
40,942
13,135
Portland, OR
I wish bio had the support it does in portland, minus the white dreads.
I wish southern Oregon had the support Portland does, too. The cardlock pump was only about 5 miles from my house and they will send me a statement for taxes when I file this year. Other than the hippie pump on 99, there is a CFN that sells B20 I think and that's it for around here. I don't have a CFN account. Star Oil in Portland offered consumer accounts for bio/dino only at no charge and I was surprised to see their prices were cheaper than retail.

Portland converted all city buses to B20 a few years ago and all Portland area pumps are at least B10 by law. There are a lot of people that bitch, just like the 10% ethanol mix on unleaded, but I don't think it's a big deal.

Back on topic, I wanted an oil furnace so I could run bio heat. Bacon grease would be awesome!
 

davep

Turbo Monkey
Jan 7, 2005
3,276
0
seattle
I'm no expert either but I'm almost certain gas cars get better mpg off of 87 octane than the 93 octane fuel. I don't know how that works but it seems like it would transfer over to diesel as well.
Octane rating has absolutely nothing to do with the 'energy' density of a fuel...although it is generally an inverse relationship (higher RON = lower energy density).

The number is a representation of resistance to ignition. Higher the number, the more resistance to ignition. A fuel with high resistance to ignition can allow an engine to have more spark advance, and higher compression....both can allow more effecient utilization of the energy stored in the fuel.
 

buildyourown

Turbo Monkey
Feb 9, 2004
4,832
0
South Seattle
Portland converted all city buses to B20 a few years ago and all Portland area pumps are at least B10 by law. There are a lot of people that bitch, just like the 10% ethanol mix on unleaded, but I don't think it's a big deal.
The ethanol is a bit different as it is used as an oxtane booster. You can argue the effects of ethanol on our food supply and corn prices all day long, but it is a great and very clean oxtane booster vs the horrible alternate - MTBE.
But yes, E85 is a scam perpetuated by the Iowa corn lobby.
 

sstalder5

Turbo Monkey
Aug 20, 2008
1,942
20
Beech Mtn Definitely NOT Boulder
Octane rating has absolutely nothing to do with the 'energy' density of a fuel...although it is generally an inverse relationship (higher RON = lower energy density).

The number is a representation of resistance to ignition. Higher the number, the more resistance to ignition. A fuel with high resistance to ignition can allow an engine to have more spark advance, and higher compression....both can allow more effecient utilization of the energy stored in the fuel.
Finally someone that doesn't start their post with "i'm not an expert"!! good info:thumb:
 

gonefirefightin

free wieners
yo stosh.

not sure how cold it gets there but you absolutley need to keep some kerosene on hand in case your stock starts to gel up. you can find the proper mix ratio's online but I would make sure you keep an eye on it before it happens otherwise you will be in a world of hurt trying to get things working again.

I have to treat my biodiesel when it gets to 15 degrees and below.

and as too jimmydeans reference, I have a 7.3 liter that I mix biodiesel for and I am getting 24 mpg out of a F250. tuned my 6.4 liter to 21mpg.
 

stosh

Darth Bailer
Jul 20, 2001
22,238
393
NY
yo stosh.

not sure how cold it gets there but you absolutley need to keep some kerosene on hand in case your stock starts to gel up. you can find the proper mix ratio's online but I would make sure you keep an eye on it before it happens otherwise you will be in a world of hurt trying to get things working again.

I have to treat my biodiesel when it gets to 15 degrees and below.

and as too jimmydeans reference, I have a 7.3 liter that I mix biodiesel for and I am getting 24 mpg out of a F250. tuned my 6.4 liter to 21mpg.
I have an under ground fuel oil tank with underground lines. Yeah I know, it's going to be pretty awesome when I pull that thing.

Anyway I will keep an eye on it thanks!
Oh and I always have kero on site for heating my garage.
 

stosh

Darth Bailer
Jul 20, 2001
22,238
393
NY
Man I'm sooo excited!!! Getting the delivery today!

I did a search but couldn't find any information on Biofuel BTU's Vs. standard heating oil.

That would be a slight benefit for me though (cost aside). 2 years ago we were tearing out 2 brand new oil boilers from a job and I took one and installed it in my house. I could probably double the size of my house and still have extra capacity left in the boiler. That said the over sized boiler I use cycles more now and if I decrease the BTU's the oil can produce the cycling will be less thus less ware and tear on my boiler. Correct me if I'm wrong........
 

jdcamb

Tool Time!
Feb 17, 2002
19,800
8,383
Nowhere Man!
Man I'm sooo excited!!! Getting the delivery today!

I did a search but couldn't find any information on Biofuel BTU's Vs. standard heating oil.

That would be a slight benefit for me though (cost aside). 2 years ago we were tearing out 2 brand new oil boilers from a job and I took one and installed it in my house. I could probably double the size of my house and still have extra capacity left in the boiler. That said the over sized boiler I use cycles more now and if I decrease the BTU's the oil can produce the cycling will be less thus less ware and tear on my boiler. Correct me if I'm wrong........
Are you going to buy me things with the extra $$ you save? That would get me excited. The Bike Messiah needs a new helmet and a Helmet mount for my light... Some new shoes would get me giddy as all get up.
 

stosh

Darth Bailer
Jul 20, 2001
22,238
393
NY
Are you going to buy me things with the extra $$ you save? That would get me excited. The Bike Messiah needs a new helmet and a Helmet mount for my light... Some new shoes would get me giddy as all get up.
I wouldn't say I'm going to save money. I'm mostly happy to be sending less money over seas.
 

jdcamb

Tool Time!
Feb 17, 2002
19,800
8,383
Nowhere Man!
I wouldn't say I'm going to save money. I'm mostly happy to be sending less money over seas.
Well then that's it... If I ever ride with you. I am going all out so that you won't be able to keep up. Had you bought me things, I may have gone slow so that you could keep up. I will be down in your neck of the woods in April and May (Saugerties). I was also planning to bring some Wardynski's fresh Kielbasa with me too. All bets are off now pal!

 
Last edited:

stosh

Darth Bailer
Jul 20, 2001
22,238
393
NY
Well then that's it... If I ever ride with you. I am going all out so that you won't be able to keep up. Had you bought me things, I may have gone slow so that you could keep up. I will be down in your neck of the woods in April and May (Saugerties). I was also planning to bring some Wardynski's fresh Kielbasa with me too. All bets are off now pal!

This is where I go!!!!


http://www.kielbasy.net/story.html
 

stosh

Darth Bailer
Jul 20, 2001
22,238
393
NY
Oh I see what your saying.

but won't it just use more fuel the longer it runs ?

I mean it will run longer to get to heat , but cool down at the same rate, so in the long run it will be running longer and burning more fuel.
Yes but that will cause less stress on the unit. The fuel is cheaper than oil when I called around yesterday but I don't know how the BTU's compare.
 

C.P.

Monkey
Jan 18, 2004
547
8
SouthEastern Massachusetts
There are less BTU's in Bio than Dino. Depending on the Bio it can be as little as 3% and as much as 9%. FWIW, I would consider mixing the two together for the first few tankfuls, sort of easing the bio into the system. Just like others stated, Bio will strip all of the dino fuel residue from the entire fuel system, and Running straight Bio will do it in a big hurry. Integrating the Bio slowly (over the first few tank-fuls) by mixing Dino in, will slow the process so you dont get clogging, and nuisance shut-downs (think 0 deg night at 2AM). Keep spare fuel filters handy!
As for that oversized boiler, you might want to look at the burner specs and see what range of nozzles can be installed on the burner, and choose a smaller nozzle(reduce firing rate); dont forget to check the boiler specs to see what range is acceptable. It's something probably better left to a pro, b/c you will have to re-calibrate for proper combustion. The only other (low cost) consideration is to put a Becket Heat Manager in your boiler system (I assume were talking forced hot water heating and no domeestic hot water heating being done by the boiler).
 
Last edited:

stosh

Darth Bailer
Jul 20, 2001
22,238
393
NY
There are less BTU's in Bio than Dino. Depending on the Bio it can be as little as 3% and as much as 9%. FWIW, I would consider mixing the two together for the first few tankfuls, sort of easing the bio into the system. Just like others stated, Bio will strip all of the dino fuel residue from the entire fuel system, and Running straight Bio will do it in a big hurry. Integrating the Bio slowly (over the first few tank-fuls) by mixing Dino in, will slow the process so you dont get clogging, and nuisance shut-downs (think 0 deg night at 2AM). Keep spare fuel filters handy!
As for that oversized boiler, you might want to look at the burner specs and see what range of nozzles can be installed on the burner, and choose a smaller nozzle(reduce firing rate); dont forget to check the boiler specs to see what range is acceptable. It's something probably better left to a pro, b/c you will have to re-calibrate for proper combustion. The only other (low cost) consideration is to put a Becket Heat Manager in your boiler system (I assume were talking forced hot water heating and no domeestic hot water heating being done by the boiler).
Actually I had my good friend a boiler tech for a local oil company come and downsize the nozzle and do the cleaning in Oct. He's 2min down the road and I should see him this weekend, maybe I'll ask for a filter when I see him. 3-9% difference in BTU's isn't a big deal to me to know I'm not sending $ to the middle east.
There are 2 things I will never go without at my house, the first is Fuel oil and the 2nd is a lawn mower. I've had nights without heat and summer weeks without a lawn mower, I didn't enjoy either.
 

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
40,942
13,135
Portland, OR
There are 2 things I will never go without at my house, the first is Fuel oil and the 2nd is a lawn mower. I've had nights without heat and summer weeks without a lawn mower, I didn't enjoy either.
My 2 things are toilet paper and porn. But to each his own, I guess.