[LOOnatic]

So i'm having a problem at the local DJ spot.
Last year the local bike club got $2k from Kona to start a jump pot in New Orleans.
The 26" crowd (me and my buddies) took the ball and put in serious man hours to construct a descent spot for all to enjoy.

Fast forward about 18 months.
The 26" crew are the ones doing all the necessary weed eating,etc..
Still, the spot exists for all to enjoy.

So know the place has taken off and the weekends will routinely see over 20 riders and most are 20".

Some of the better 20" riders have taken it on themselves to re-shape take offs and landings b\c they said they were having to pedal so basically they BMX-ified the place.

My first ride after that i had to adjust my style and all the flow the 26" guys had achieved is now gone.

The 20" guys are my associate friends and the 26" guys are my immediate buds.
Now i have the 26" saying that they are done with helping out b\c of the BMX-ification which happened last year.

How do you guys keep all riders satisfied at your jump spots?
IE, balance the desires of the 20" and 26" rider.

I'm kinda the liasion between the 2 and now all i have is impending drama just for trying to accomodate both types of lines.

BTW, the place is small and we only have 3 lines(small, medium and large) and cannot expand due to the Levees and the core of engineers.

 

[w00dy]

Explain "BMXify". Does this mean they made the lips and landings steeper? Did they smooth everything out so their smaller wheels would roll better?

Tell your 26er friends to learn how to hit a proper transition.
Suck it up Princess!

 

[LOOnatic]

Yeah smoother is great but the steepness is the problem.
The BMX guys want jumps that are not as far across and alot steeper.

The big bike guys are plenty skilled and frankly the jumps had flow for us saturday and by sunday the place was pretty different.

I guess the bottom line is that if you have limited space, what's the best jump design to make both groups satisfied?
It's annoying the have different jumps every time you go ride the same spot.

 

[Greyhound]

Simple. Tell them to apply for their own freakin' grant if their money isn't already tied up in girl pants and malt liquor.


I mean, if it was the other way around....and you guys mellowed out their grant money-supported towers of 20, I would expect nothing less than full revolt on their part.....

 

[ebrider510]

ya, you'll have to explain BMXify a bit better. having to pedal imbetween jumps shouldn't really have much to do with what bike you're riding(although bigger wheels roll faster, but 20" wheels accelerate faster). if they made things steeper and smoother that could actually make the place more fun..but i know what you mean. talk to the guys who changed the place and tell them that they need to run stuff by the rest of the builders before they do any work, and that many of the guys who originally started the place aren't too thrilled with it.

edit: and ya, if you guys got the place started then don't let them go and ruin it. if they are chill guys then work with them, but if they are just a bunch of ill tempered idiots then don't bother.

 

[LOOnatic]

Simple. Tell them to apply for their own freakin' grant if their money isn't already tied up in girl pants and malt liquor.


I mean, if it was the other way around....and you guys mellowed out their grant money-supported towers of 20, I would expect nothing less than full revolt on their part.....

A ha, ha.
Girl pants and Steel reserve dude.

 

[roamingoregon]

Get over it. Tell you 26" friends to get over it. I learned on what would be called "MTB jumps" moved to so-cal and the only jumps around were considered "BMX" jumps. I spent many hours learning how to ride those. I figured it out and the reality for me now is that a jump is a jump. I prefer it steep and deep. Our current trails are built and maintained by both 26" and 20" guys. No one complains except those that never learned how to ride steep and deep jumps.

BMX

MTB

Same day. Same Jump. Everyone digs. We ride. We learn.

 

[Greyhound]

Hey man....that's cool y'all have a real Koom-by-ya moment going on at your durt jumps and everyone gets along......but that's not the situation Loo is trying to explain here. The 26" guys put all the work in, and the 20's squat their way into changing the whole flow of the place.......the 20's need to be more respectful of other's work and act like they have some sense. I would imagine a comprimise could be worked out if the 20's would pitch in and help keep the place maintained......but, if you're gonna crib onto to someone else's work, not do any maintainence and then change the place to your liking, that's just not cool and I think anyone with half a brain would see that as well. Loo's point is they applied for the grant, did the work, and kept it maintained---they aren't the ones that need to bend here.

 

[Cru Jones]

Get over it. Tell you 26" friends to get over it. I learned on what would be called "MTB jumps" moved to so-cal and the only jumps around were considered "BMX" jumps. I spent many hours learning how to ride those. I figured it out and the reality for me now is that a jump is a jump. I prefer it steep and deep. Our current trails are built and maintained by both 26" and 20" guys. No one complains except those that never learned how to ride steep and deep jumps.

Quoted for truth. A jump isn't a jump unless it's a "bmx style" jump. And they can be shredded with a two six. If you've never jumped on steep lips and landings before, it will just take some time to get used to it. In the end, you should like it better because it should make the jumps more "floaty."

On a side note... I'm on a mission to erase the line between mtb and bmx. To me, when you're riding the same stuff with the same style, there should be no distinguishment between the two. I dream of a world where one day wheel size will be viewed similar to top tube lengths... some people prefer bigger, some people prefer smaller.

Actually, this forum is a good start to that. We all love to jump and do tricks on bikes, that's the commonality. Nobody really cares what kind of bike it is as long as there's some radness being thrown down. I'd say we're visionaries over here... unlike Pinkbike and other forums where they decided to separate the small wheels from the big.

Yeah, I know, this is starting to sound like the civil rights movement for bikes. But, I'm tired of hearing people say "bmxers" this and "mountain bikers" that. It's the same freakin thing people.

 

[prana.ferox]

Physics and geometry dictate that a transition with a given radius will feel different for different wheel sizes and wheel bases. It's inescapable. I'm not sure why the BMX riders should be allowed to dial-in the jumps for their needs, and the MTB people (who secured financing and constructed the spot) are told they should just suck it up and adapt to transitions that are now uncomfortable for them to ride.

 

[LOOnatic]

Cru i'm with ya man.
The rub is that i thought the jumps were good for all styles but the BMX'rs clearly prefer changes that are making the jumped distances shorter.
Yeah, yeah, jump higher up i know(i like steep landings too) but the jumps before were NOT big fat turd jumps just not optimized for 20".
Thats the issue as i know see it.

I come from 20" and hate that this classification divide exists.

I want the 20" guys around and have no desire to run anybody off for doing what we all love but seriously, the BMXified jumps have become really tight and compact landings .
Hell, maybe the 20" guys ride great but build sh!t jumps......

In the start i thought if we build sweet jumps then people would show up and rip.
Not dicker about about geometrical proportions gawdamit

 

[Cru Jones]

BMX'rs clearly prefer changes that are making the jumped distances shorter.
Yeah, yeah, jump higher up i know(i like steep landings too) but the jumps before were NOT big fat turd jumps just not optimized for 20".
Thats the issue as i know see it.

If the lips are getting steeper, then the jumped distances need to be shorter, unless you can start coming at the jumps with more speed. I don't see how the jumps could be optimized for 20" and not 26" unless they are really, really tight. Even guys that ride the same kind of bike sometimes disagree on how steep a lip should be and how big a gap should be. Everyone jumps with a different style. But, you said before that they were changing it so they don't have to pedal... that's a good thing. You shouldn't have to pedal in a quality DJ line. I suggest you just work with them and try to reach a compromise.

 

[sittingduck]

It's not about the differences between bikes. It's down to the preferences and ideas of the individuals riding them. Anyone with decent experience and ability will be able to ride most any dirt jumps.
If your spot is public, you have to maintain a presence or people will always come and screw with it. Unfortunately, there are very few that will actually respect the work done before.

 

[dexter]

Man back in Denver it was completely 20 vs 26. Anywhere you went (with sometimes the exception being arbor) their were conflicts. After what like 5 years of riding the espn/woodward park are we now finally somewhat cool with a few groups of bmxers who have taken us to new spots and stuff. Missoula on the otherhand is rad! All the bmxers and mtn bikers (who shred) work in the same 2 shops and ride together every day. I love being able to go ride tech street with the street kids then go rip dj's with a big group of people with 20's, 24's, and 26's and not have it matter. Its all about having a good time and throwing down. Everyone feeds off of each other and sick **** comes from it. I get so much inspiration watching a bmx'r do a line and pull something wild, things i never thought to try or thought were possible. wheel size doesnt matter and shouldnt

 

[GuettoBlaster]

Yeah smoother is great but the steepness is the problem.
The BMX guys want jumps that are not as far across and alot steeper.

The big bike guys are plenty skilled and frankly the jumps had flow for us saturday and by sunday the place was pretty different.

I guess the bottom line is that if you have limited space, what's the best jump design to make both groups satisfied?
It's annoying the have different jumps every time you go ride the same spot.

steeper is not a problem...is actually a solution...man up and hit them jumps!!!!

 

[sayndesyn]

I understand your annoyance. You have three lines. Make one steep and deep. One less steep and longer, and then one full of begginer tables. Problem solved.

 

[Larson TT y0!]

I understand your annoyance. You have three lines. Make one steep and deep. One less steep and longer, and then one full of begginer tables. Problem solved.

You would think.....but everyone wants more than their (or in this case someone else's) piece of the pie.

 

[cmc]

Man back in Denver it was completely 20 vs 26. Anywhere you went (with sometimes the exception being arbor) their were conflicts. After what like 5 years of riding the espn/woodward park are we now finally somewhat cool with a few groups of bmxers who have taken us to new spots and stuff. Missoula on the otherhand is rad! All the bmxers and mtn bikers (who shred) work in the same 2 shops and ride together every day. I love being able to go ride tech street with the street kids then go rip dj's with a big group of people with 20's, 24's, and 26's and not have it matter. Its all about having a good time and throwing down. Everyone feeds off of each other and sick **** comes from it. I get so much inspiration watching a bmx'r do a line and pull something wild, things i never thought to try or thought were possible. wheel size doesnt matter and shouldnt

dexter, that's the kind of scene i like. i hereby invite your crew to come down here to austin (redbox spot) this winter for perfect weather riding, and maybe next summer we'll hit montana.

 

[GuettoBlaster]

that's the spirit!

 

[cmc]

Yeah smoother is great but the steepness is the problem.
The BMX guys want jumps that are not as far across and alot steeper.

The big bike guys are plenty skilled and frankly the jumps had flow for us saturday and by sunday the place was pretty different.

I guess the bottom line is that if you have limited space, what's the best jump design to make both groups satisfied?
It's annoying the have different jumps every time you go ride the same spot.

loonatic, i agree with you. it is perfectly legit to want to keep a line that is 4x/bmx track style race jumps, i.e. long distances jumped but mellower take offs and landings. it's just a different style. CRU, you should recognize that race-style is BMX too !

tell the nosedivers to keep their hands off your race line. if they are worth their salt they can build a new line. if they're just going to poach on yours, f--- 'em.

 

[Cru Jones]

it is perfectly legit to want to keep a line that is 4x/bmx track style race jumps, i.e. long distances jumped but mellower take offs and landings.

No it ain't. The only people that want those kind of jumps are people that can't do real jumps. Go to a 4X or bmx track if you want mellow lips and landings...

 

[brycexlighthall]

No it ain't. The only people that want those kind of jumps are people that can't do real jumps. Go to a 4X or bmx track if you want mellow lips and landings...

Agreed. The only line between MTB and BMX that still exists, is that their are some guys on big bikes that think they ride dirt. Just 'cause you have a hardtail and ride at the BMX track does not mean you know how to build/ride dirt jumps.

 

[chaloots]

i'd perfer the steeper lips but in my opinion you shouldnt just show up and modify someones elses hard work.

 

[cmc]

No it ain't. The only people that want those kind of jumps are people that can't do real jumps. Go to a 4X or bmx track if you want mellow lips and landings...

heh heh. nah, i hear you. i know all about trails style and nosediving from 20+ years of bmx. i've just been having some fun lately hanging out with some older riders who are getting back into it, showing up with downhill bikes and all kinds of ****. and it's cool to have a line for them to hit.

and CRU, just for fun... what size transition would you use to clear a 20' gap with a 6 foot tall launch? how long would your landing be ?

 

[GuettoBlaster]

i'd perfer the steeper lips but in my opinion you shouldnt just show up and modify someones elses hard work.

word!!!

 

[kidwoo]

and CRU, just for fun... what size transition would you use to clear a 20' gap with a 6 foot tall launch? how long would your landing be ?

After dominating helltrack, he'd probably want the transition of the starting ramp.

 

[Cru Jones]

and CRU, just for fun... what size transition would you use to clear a 20' gap with a 6 foot tall launch? how long would your landing be ?

Ha. What woo said.

But, really, I don't know. We don't really measure that stuff. We just go by what looks and feels right. A lot of it depends on how much speed you can get heading into the jump. If you're going mach 10, you can make it pretty damn steep. Now that I think about it, we generally try to make it as steep as possible that will still allow you to clear the gap.

For the landings, they need to be steep enough so that you pick up speed when you pump the landing. If it's too flat, you'll feel yourself slowdown a little right when you land.

Here are a few pics that give an idea of the transition radius and steepness of the lips.

This is our steepest lip. The lip is about 6 feet tall (from the bottom of the bowl) and the gap is only about 10 feet...

This lip is a little shorter and a little less steep. About a 12 foot gap...

6 foot tall lip. Similar transition to the last pic. About a 16 foot gap. The landing was unfinished when the pic was taken...

 

[LOOnatic]

Thanks for the pics for reference Cru.
After loking at your jumps in question i realize that the BMX guys at our spot are doing good with steepness but the span (lip to landing) across are way to close together .
Thus, the static.

And as far as going somewhere else well ....this place is all we got.
Not really a thriving scene down here.

I'm gonna go take pics tomorrow and have you jump snobs critique my situation .

 

[GuettoBlaster]

you should see when Cru,WCH,Roaming Oregon,Ryan and all the killer BMXer guys getting together in to a train in 2 different lines...its butter! supa sick!

 

[mackattack510]

Quoted for truth. A jump isn't a jump unless it's a "bmx style" jump. And they can be shredded with a two six. If you've never jumped on steep lips and landings before, it will just take some time to get used to it. In the end, you should like it better because it should make the jumps more "floaty."

On a side note... I'm on a mission to erase the line between mtb and bmx. To me, when you're riding the same stuff with the same style, there should be no distinguishment between the two. I dream of a world where one day wheel size will be viewed similar to top tube lengths... some people prefer bigger, some people prefer smaller.

Actually, this forum is a good start to that. We all love to jump and do tricks on bikes, that's the commonality. Nobody really cares what kind of bike it is as long as there's some radness being thrown down. I'd say we're visionaries over here... unlike Pinkbike and other forums where they decided to separate the small wheels from the big.

Yeah, I know, this is starting to sound like the civil rights movement for bikes. But, I'm tired of hearing people say "bmxers this" and "mountain bikers" that. It's the same freakin thing people.

cru speaks in the words of the good reverend

you basically took the thoughts out of my mind and typed them, fight the good fight cru

 

[Larson TT y0!]

bmx, mtb, whatever...it's all good. Let's all get together and shun the fixie scensters..