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BMX and MTB

Sonic Reducer

Monkey
Mar 19, 2006
501
0
seattle worshington
I started mountain biking when I was 10 in 1995, and riding bmx at 12. done both simultaneously since, and tried out just about every other aspect of biking you can imagine, literally. i've never much enjoyed bmx style riding on a 26" bike, and enjoyed the two on different levels, and for different reasons. mountain biking for me was always about getting into the wilderness, leaving the city, and having fun via natural terrain. bmx was something that i could do at all hours, with like minded individuals, out the door and down the street, and on any terrain i saw fit.

this thread seems to have more of a mountain bike viewpoint, so maybe i'll give some context to how some bmxers see it. bmx has a longstanding history as kind of a hated sport. I've had skateboarders literally throw their board at my head at a street spot, been chased by a cops for no reason other than the bike, yelled at by random people, looked down upon by the mountain bikers who ran bike shops because I rode a kids bike, etc. all comes with the territory. in the 90's the only people bmxers got respect from was bmxers. i grew up in a city with close to a million people, and i knew of maybe 15 people who actually rode hard. there were more in the outlying communities but still. very tight knit community where anyone who rode knew or at least knew of everyone else. mountain bikers were "cyclists" part of the big group who weren't with us, and if not they were against us. they wore dorky outfits, rode expensive goofy looking bikes, didn't leave the ground much, concerned with things like heart rate, just a bunch of crap that bmxers didnt need. mountain bikers generally were older upstanding citizens with much different mentalities than the average bmxer. definite culture clash.

so come about '98 or '99, dual slalom racers start riding the jumps more and more, with the squirrely style that so many 26" riders have(moreso then than now). within a year there were all sorts of people trying to get rad on an mtb. it came to the parks too where it looks even more squirrely. it was really not well recieved at first by the 20" crowd, like what the fvck are these mountain bikers doing? horrible style on the jumps, goofy trials hopping on a quarterpipe, rocking clipless pedals at the skatepark, stuff like that. you got people doing "urban freeriding" like they had invented something, hucking stairs to flat on their DH bikes, roof drops that plenty of people do on bmx bikes all day no problem. I guess I never really appreciated that stuff because I had it in my head that bmx and mtb's were for very different things, and they are.

nowadays people are shredding dirt jumps on the 26" bikes. bmxers by and large are taking notice, and giving props. 26" bikes are killing the dirt jumps almost on the same level as bmx now. the bigger bikes are even an advantage in a lot of situations. seen some badass dirtjump style out of 26" riders. i really like the direction that a lot are taking of doing tricks in the woods. as has been previously said in teh thread it brings something fresh to the bike world rather than just rehashing it in a different way which is what mtb's in a skatepark or the streets basically is.

with that i think riding a 26" wheel bike on street or ramps is like riding a 20" bike on a singletrack climb. its just goofy looking, awkward. sure a lot of em are doing the tricks, landing backwards, spinning the bars, etc. but it just doesn't look smooth or stylish much. yes there are a few 26" park riders who go big and i will still give the 26" riders props for doing a difficult trick which is made more difficult by the fact that the bike is big and awkward, but it will be a long while before anybody can ride a 26" bike and make it look as good as a 20."

i like a lot of what was said earlier in the thread. if the riders are going for it, having fun, then more power to em. i hope that I pissed off a few people with the above comments as well.
 
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sittingduck

Turbo Monkey
Jun 22, 2007
1,962
2
Oregon
Your mistake is thinking anyone cares what it "looks" like. Only posers and fools are caught up in that shyt. Bikes is bikes. Period.
 

Sonic Reducer

Monkey
Mar 19, 2006
501
0
seattle worshington
Your mistake is thinking anyone cares what it "looks" like. Only posers and fools are caught up in that shyt. Bikes is bikes. Period.


you rock spandex when going out on the town?
you like the look of dead sailors over a nice smooth whip?

no?

that must make you a poser too. or is it a hypocrite?
dont tell me bikes is bikes. i love em too, all kinds, for over half my life.

do some sweet hucks to flat on your fully for me would ya?
 
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JGill

Monkey
Jul 7, 2008
289
0
Norman, OK
People are going to hate on you for all kinds of stupid sh*t. Growing up rollerblading and skateboarding (at the same spots during the same sessions) and now riding a 20 and 26 (at the same spots and during the same sessions) it's amazing how retarded people are. They give you attitude because they don't approve of your wheel choice, but as soon as you pull out whatever they are on, they are all of a sudden your friend... Bottom line is that are many people that aren't worth your time and energy. Especially if they are talking sh*t while wearing 6.0's and dunk's.....
 

sittingduck

Turbo Monkey
Jun 22, 2007
1,962
2
Oregon
you rock spandex when going out on the town?
you like the look of dead sailors over a nice smooth whip?
I was talking about bikes, not clothes or riding style/ability. :crazy:
that must make you a poser too. or is it a hypocrite?
Again, don't get your panties in a wad.... I was referring to your comment on wheelsize.
dont tell me bikes is bikes. i love em too, all kinds, for over half my life.
do some sweet hucks to flat on your fully for me would ya?
I was riding long before you were born. BFD.
 

basikbiker

Monkey
Jun 15, 2006
619
0
Northern Cali
i think it about like this: wheel size is like wheel choice and board width is to skateboarding. like 20" are like a 7.5" with like 55mm super hard wheels. if you know what im sayin, but im drunk right now
 

Sonic Reducer

Monkey
Mar 19, 2006
501
0
seattle worshington
I was talking about bikes, not clothes or riding style/ability. :crazy:

Again, don't get your panties in a wad.... I was referring to your comment on wheelsize.


I was riding long before you were born. BFD.
I wasn't talking about the bikes themselves either, any variety can look amazing or amazingly awful. re read my original post. yeah, i did make one reference to 90's bikes and in my opinion bikes back then were pretty goofy looking(hindsight is 2020).

so you were riding long before i was born eh. where at, the repack? by saying ive been riding riding over half my life i wasn't trying to brag just trying to illustrate that it is my life. for instance I did a technical 12 miles up and back in 7" of semi packed snow yesterday on the trail bike(snow riding highly recomended, seriously fun), and rode skatepark today. I think I might ride dirt jumps tomorrow. but I guess I must be a poser anyway because I like good style and different wheels for different riding.
whatever, im done with this thread.
 
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grom-dom

Turbo Monkey
Jun 27, 2006
1,141
0
Chapel Thrill
i wear dunks, i care about how my bike looks, i talk sh*t, but it's good natured heckling. that's what we all do around here. bikes are bikes? a time trial bike is the same as t1? perhaps in the basic, basic way of thjinking. cars are cars then, right? a buick is the same as a bugatti, right? i don't understand why people have fun taking the fun out of riding... i just do what i have fun doing, i ride how i want to ride, my bike looks how i want it to look. the word "freestyle" lost its meaning, and not only in bmx.
 

grom-dom

Turbo Monkey
Jun 27, 2006
1,141
0
Chapel Thrill
and sonic reducer, i wouldn't say bmx and mtb are on the same level at all really. i could hop on a mountain bike and film a street segment better than 90% of the mtb guys in videos, purely because i can do a slider out of a 180, and not indian giver. sure, mtb can do some of the same tricks, but when it comes down to it, bmx was there first, and will always be slightly ahead of freestyle mtb, purely because the freestyle mtb scene (especially dirt jumps and street, park etc) just started really gaining popularity a couple of years ago. that's why mtb technology for freestyle is so far behind bmx. think about it, forks still use press in star nuts, frames have euro bottom brackets, etc etc. mind you, i rode mtb for a while before i started riding 20's, so i'm not speaking one sided here. i'm just sayin...
 

pnj

Turbo Monkey till the fat lady sings
Aug 14, 2002
4,697
40
seattle
I remember a letter in FREESTYLIN' from around '84 or so. It was talking about how bmx freestyle would never catch on and that is was lame, compared to skating. That bmx freestyle didn't have it's own style or fashion or music (like skating has punk rock, or whatever).

It took many years before bmx freestyle came into it's own. The 80's had lame o bikes, silly tricks, goofy colors, etc.

Mtn. bike stunt riding, to me, is in the same stages as bmx freestyle was 20 plus years ago. We are not used to seeing the same tricks being done by 20 inchers done on a mtn. bike, so it can often look odd or goofy. Usually, from my perspective, it looks goofy because the rider isn't that good. ie, indian givers, etc..

I think in a few years, when we have been seeing mtn. bikes doing stunts for 20 some odd years, it won't look so silly or whatever, it will just be riding a bike.

I'm not one to argue silly stuff like this. I enjoy riding my bike and that's the bottom line to me. Fashion is something I don't understand...
 

cmc

Turbo Monkey
Nov 17, 2006
2,061
6
austin
.... so maybe i'll give some context to how some bmxers see it. bmx has a longstanding history as kind of a hated sport. . . . . mountain bikers were "cyclists" part of the big group who weren't with us, and if not they were against us. they wore dorky outfits, rode expensive goofy looking bikes, didn't leave the ground much, concerned with things like heart rate, just a bunch of crap that bmxers didnt need. mountain bikers generally were older upstanding citizens with much different mentalities than the average bmxer. definite culture clash.. . . .

. . . .

i hear what you're saying about the bmx history. i've lived that bmx history--from going to AFA and hoffman bs comps to organizing comps myself in '98 and '99 and riding 20"s up until '04 or so.

not directed at you, but it seems like there's this idea out there--hey we spent the last 20 years gaining respect from the wider culture. now that we have carved out our spot we want to make sure no one else cramps our style.
the worst is old bmx'ers who would rather talk shlt online and 'stay pure bmx' (but not actually ride due to injuries/bad back) than pick up an mtbmx and be able to ride again.

just like companies like hoffman, homeless, standard, S&M etc. made something cool out of the gheyness of 80's bmx..... mtbmx companies now like Blackmarket, Union Street, Tonic, NS, etc are making cool things happen. i would expect that my old bmx friends would respect that--and they're starting to.

this is a little off topic so skip if you want....but think back to the 90s when rollerblading was first blowing up. i honestly think that the old guard at Thrasher, Big Brother, World Industries, and the rest of the old dudes that ran the skateboarding industry, saw a monetary threat in the new trend. the skateboarding industry lives or dies on there being a new crop of 11-14 year olds every few years to keep the money flowing. they saw a large number of these kids choosing rollerblades. so they set out to kill rollerblading. go back and look at those magazines--there were full-page anti-rollerblading ads, constant editorials, t-shirts and printing of letters to the editor on the topic. i don't care if you like rollerblading or don't, (or think it should have been killed !). i used to skateboard myself and i still love watching skateboarding. but it would be a mistake to think that all the rollerblade hate was self-generated--the tone was set at the top. my theory anyway....

... SO... my point is.... the old guard of BMX right now are at a crossroads. they can actually admit that 24" and 26" is a legitimate form of Bicycle Motocross, just with different wheels for slightly different terrain.... (E.g. Eastern26.com). or they can dig in and start playing from the World Industries playbook. if mtbmx bikes were more affordable and 12 year olds did start choosing mtb in large numbers i think you'd see some in the BMX industry start to declare war. i hope it doesnt go that way.
 
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WhoRyder

Turbo Monkey
Nov 28, 2007
1,835
0
NYC
i hear what you're saying about the bmx history. i've lived that bmx history--from going to AFA and hoffman bs comps to organizing comps myself in '98 and '99.
I remember attending BMX comps in '85.....

Hutch
Redline
Murray
Haro
GT Pro Performer


Man those were the days... I Officially Feel old.....

Here's a classic 86 race...
 

jonKranked

Press Button, Receive Stupid
Nov 10, 2005
66,658
10,885
media blackout
ithis is a little off topic so skip if you want....but think back to the 90s when rollerblading was first blowing up. i honestly think that the old guard at Thrasher, Big Brother, World Industries, and the rest of the old dudes that ran the skateboarding industry, saw a monetary threat in the new trend. the skateboarding industry lives or dies on there being a new crop of 11-14 year olds every few years to keep the money flowing. they saw a large number of these kids choosing rollerblades. so they set out to kill rollerblading. go back and look at those magazines--there were full-page anti-rollerblading ads, constant editorials, t-shirts and printing of letters to the editor on the topic. i don't care if you like rollerblading or don't, (or think it should have been killed !). i used to skateboard myself and i still love watching skateboarding. but it would be a mistake to think that all the rollerblade hate was self-generated--the tone was set at the top. my theory anyway....

The problem with rollerblading is that it's a neon leotard and a Prince cd away from being figure skating :D
 

cmc

Turbo Monkey
Nov 17, 2006
2,061
6
austin
What was "ghey" about 80's BMX?
good point... i don't actually think it was. that's when i started riding 'freestyle' and a lot of aspects i still appreciate--like the shows, contests, and innovation.

but there was a period of time from around 89 through the 90s where indie companies were starting just as the giants were bailing on freestyle. they were distancing themselves from the excesses of the 80s. the perceived over-hype, money-grubbing promoters, low-quality bikes, teen-oriented advertising etc. companies like S&M made an identity out of scorning GT, Haro, etc.

for an example of the 90's indie attitude against the "gheyness" of 80's freestyle, see this from an old website: http://www.ewirezine.com/riding/bmxads/
 
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WhoRyder

Turbo Monkey
Nov 28, 2007
1,835
0
NYC
i wouldn't call it GHEY..... during 89-93 i think BMX biking was in transition, making a change.....

I remember in 1989 i still had my Redline and all my boys had their BMX bikes... we called ourselves 103rd BMX crew..... We did not rock mullets, we were just regular kids enjoying what we liked most... riding BMX.... i been riding bikes since early 80's... and still love it....

My redline looked exactly like this:


I actually prefer to ride an Old school BMX bike now than a New School one... i hate the new geometry of the new bmxer's.... (my opnions)

I wouldn't call it Ghey though....
 

don

Turbo Monkey
Nov 8, 2001
1,321
0
Rumson, NJ
Real good post cmc.

I would say there was a little bit of that rollerblade/skate thing w/ skiing and snowboarding too. Looking back I think snowboarding gave the whole snow industry a boost. Funny thing is the skiiers have adopted the rail/jump thing in a big way but I just can't get into how it looks. Ski racing looks sick. Skiers getting down steeps or riding trees and pow looks real good too. But watching them ride rails, fakie, half, big spins, and grabs with the poles and skiies pointing all over - it just doesn't compare to the same thing with a snowboard.

I think you're right on with the old guard and 20" bmx @ a crossroads although I see some BMX companies making proper cruisers where there was absolutely no thought of that years ago. I rode a cruiser before MTBMX was around and was THE only one in my area that had 24" wheels. So it's really cool to me to see Fit, Sunday and the others making some nice 24" cruisers. So maybe we'll see a 24" FBM, T-1, S&M and more in the future.
 

grom-dom

Turbo Monkey
Jun 27, 2006
1,141
0
Chapel Thrill
I remember a letter in FREESTYLIN' from around '84 or so. It was talking about how bmx freestyle would never catch on and that is was lame, compared to skating. That bmx freestyle didn't have it's own style or fashion or music (like skating has punk rock, or whatever).

It took many years before bmx freestyle came into it's own. The 80's had lame o bikes, silly tricks, goofy colors, etc.

Mtn. bike stunt riding, to me, is in the same stages as bmx freestyle was 20 plus years ago. We are not used to seeing the same tricks being done by 20 inchers done on a mtn. bike, so it can often look odd or goofy. Usually, from my perspective, it looks goofy because the rider isn't that good. ie, indian givers, etc..

I think in a few years, when we have been seeing mtn. bikes doing stunts for 20 some odd years, it won't look so silly or whatever, it will just be riding a bike.

I'm not one to argue silly stuff like this. I enjoy riding my bike and that's the bottom line to me. Fashion is something I don't understand...
exactly my point. the sport of freestyle mtb is in its infancy. however, i do think it is almost pointless to do some things on an mtb, namely ride street, than on a bmx bike. if you want to do it, go ahead, i'm down for everyone doing their own thing to make them happy. but when a 20 shredder talks sh*t to you for being on a mtb, you just have to suck it up. it's like being the youngest rider in the group (trust me, because i am)
 

Leethal

Turbo Monkey
Oct 27, 2001
1,244
0
Avondale (Phoenix)
Weak insecure dudes talk trash.. the guys getting paid to ride street don't.. Maybe I am wrong but I've never heard them say anything and I have ran into a lot of them while riding..sometimes on my Molly and sometimes on a smaller bike.

The 80's had some silly stuff but seriously what generation doesn't... you think we wil look back at this decade and not wonder what is up with Guys wearing Girls jeans, crazy colors that are popluar in BMX right now... huge bars with as short as possible seat-tubes, running no seatpost whatsoever.. let alone the weird chainless dudes, kids that can do tailwhips but can't do a tabletop etc...
 

pnj

Turbo Monkey till the fat lady sings
Aug 14, 2002
4,697
40
seattle
I only read about three sentances of that....
I'm pretty sure fix gear freestyle was around way before bmx.
 

demo 9

Turbo Monkey
Jan 31, 2007
5,911
45
north jersey
i like how alot of bmxers say we steal their tricks? so does that mean the only "ok" trick on a mtb is a double frontflip or a 5whip? mayb triple backflip-i mean i have nothing against bmx and they are better (as a whole) but they have to get over their insecurities. also i am the only 26er in a pack of 8 20s, but at least they understand
 

cmc

Turbo Monkey
Nov 17, 2006
2,061
6
austin








"I use the term loosely, but BMX bikes have been engineered specifically for (and to withstand) what we do, and have done, over the course of 30 some-odd years--just as mountain bikes, track bikes, and commuter bikes have in their own right."

"Crossing over the lines of each bike's capabilities produces poor results. I'm sorry but you won't see Lance Armstron win the Tour de France on a BMX bike. And in the same vein, you won't ever see Brian Lopes (cough, BMX'er) win a downhill race on one either."

"Seeing someone on a mountain bike spin a box jump gets the same reaction as seeing someone pedal around a velodrome on a BMX... Why? It's about using the right too for the job. "

--Ryan Fudger, Ride BMX Magazine.

Yet another example of a well-known BMX'er not understanding the way the DJ-MTB / MTBMX bike of the last several years have evolved themselves. They are adapting just like 20" BMX bikes did.

At best, the article is humorous. At worse, it's a cheap shot--jumping a beach cruiser to prove that MTB's shouldn't be in a bikepark. Classic straw man argument.
 

pnj

Turbo Monkey till the fat lady sings
Aug 14, 2002
4,697
40
seattle
funny how bike riders spent years (and it's still ongoing..) getting bikes into parks and now it seems like bikers are telling other bikers they can't ride in parks?

fudgers an idiot.

what makes a mtn bike a mtn bike? suspension? 26 inch wheels?

I remember an article from the early '80's in BMXA about some guy and he was riding a cruiser in a bowl. The way the article was written, this guy was crazy! They gave him mad props for being crazy enough to use that size wheel in the pool.... :)
 

cmc

Turbo Monkey
Nov 17, 2006
2,061
6
austin
on a positive note: thecomeup props Methods: "Features a good mix of shredding on some little bikes and some big bikes."
http://vimeo.com/6770966

This is a super chill edit of Eliot Jackson, Brett Auerbach, Jake Kinney, and Jeremy Combs riding trails out in Ventura, CA. Features a good mix of shredding on some little bikes and some big bikes. Get out and dig, or forget that and click here to watch it in HD. I spotted this over on Deluxe, where Mark Noble grabbed it from Liquid Dirt.
 

sittingduck

Turbo Monkey
Jun 22, 2007
1,962
2
Oregon
Fudgie is a tool. I've seen him try to bait pro bmxers into bashing mountain bikes for no reason at all in his interviews.