Quantcast

BMX and MTB

don

Turbo Monkey
Nov 8, 2001
1,321
0
Rumson, NJ
also note adam did not write that.

Jim C and Sunday is our messiah. He's one top dude and just loves bikes.
You could porbably add Taj adnd a couple more like maybe Aaron Ross to that list.

I wonder if Profile and some other BMX manufacturers are complaining about MTBMX riders using their products? Cranks, chainwheels, brakes, hubs, seats, stems - I'd place I bet there are some added sales. Guys like Eastern are gaining some crossover dollars too and good for them. If Fudger would get his head out of his ass - I could see room for a added coverage or even a new publication. Last time I picked up Ride it wasn't all that thick.

Like pnj said - BMXA used to cover cruisers (both 24" and 26") in their mag a lot. And BMX Action was the epitome of BMX.

And I have to mention: the guys throwing the most dirt at the local trail spot this year have been bigger wheel riders. Like I said before the older BMX guys have mostly quit. Too bad - a dope little 24 or 26 would probably have kept them riding.
 

Cru Jones

Turbo Monkey
Sep 2, 2006
3,032
2
Hell Track
also note adam did not write that.
I noticed that. I don't think he would have posted it. On the other hand, he did put up a post about Liquid Dirt when I first started it a few years back.

And I also remember a vid with Adam Hauck where he said the mtber had more style than the bmxer.

Adam seems pretty chill with the big wheels... I mean he's not promoting them, but he's definitely not going out of his way to bash them. My biggest beef with adam and the come up is his overwhelming bias towards street riding.
 
Last edited:

eaterofdog

ass grabber
Sep 8, 2006
7,826
910
Central Florida
Hmm never saw this thread before. I have 2¢ to contribute...

I have been jumping 26 for a couple of years. Pretty fun, but the bike felt too long and slow when tweaking and on spin tricks.

I bought a 24 BMX cruiser and liked the length, but didn't like the lack of sus fork and disk brakes. No suspension was too bumpy in the rough areas where I ride and kept spiking my wrists when overshooting jumps.

So... I ended up buying a new 24 frame, sus fork and wheels, then moved my parts over. The bike is a hybrid between BMX and MTB and is perfect.
 

pnj

Turbo Monkey till the fat lady sings
Aug 14, 2002
4,697
40
seattle
snafu is in on the game as well. They may even be making a 26" frame sometime....


Does Eastern have any riders on their team riding the bigger bikes?
 
Last edited:

Stoked

Turbo Monkey
Nov 28, 2004
1,813
1
LI, NY
why do you say that ?

what about Carter Holland / Blackmarket ? . . . or Leigh Ramsdell /EASTERN ?
for sure all those guys are great. i was just looking at it from the perspective of a bmx co owner coming into all this mtbmx stuff. Jim knew what ridemonkey was when i mentioned it to him. he wanted to know some resources for 24'' bikes.

also profile is re-doing their mtb line, including a 204 pt engagement hub. i'm on the fence regarding the new look of their bmx hub shells.
 

cmc

Turbo Monkey
Nov 17, 2006
2,061
6
austin
snafu is in on the game as well. They may even be making a 26" frame sometime....


Does Eastern have any riders on their team riding the bigger bikes?
I don't know.... I have seen a video with Leigh himself riding a Nighttrain.

As for SNAFU.... here's McGoo's comments from the SNAFU blog:

Thursday was the busiest day of the show, with three SNAFU meetings and a full day of product recon. Our Solidworks guru Erik Westergaard drove into Vegas early Thursday morning to help me with our urban dirt jump and BMX projects, and we got a ton of stuff done. I can neither confirm nor deny the existence of a 26-inch single-speed MTB dirt jumping frame under the SNAFU banner at this time, but much energy was expended on such a project leading up to this year's Interbike trade show. Why an MTB frame, and why now? Because I've been riding MTB's since 1987, and because riders and SNAFU customers have been asking for it. SNAFU's measured foray into the MTB DJ scene has been a critical success, with everyone loving our MTB-specific 4130 rise handlebars, Towatay stem, Anorexic pedals and J-Bar seatpost. Our Mayweather cranks, Love seats, C-Lever and grips get lots of play with the MTB crowd, so our cred in the scene isn't a stretch. Frankly speaking, lots of once solitary BMX brands are clamoring to make bigger bikes for older riders. Subrosa, Sunday, Volume, Fit, Eastern and FBM have joined long-time "family bike builders" Haro, Mongoose and GT by introducing 700c and MTB products and completes in recent years, and this trend seems likely to continue. I've got a theory about it, and it goes like this:

As the once young and able-bodied owners and managers of today's leading "rider-owned" BMX companies grow older, so too does their interest in other bike categories. I owned my first fixed-gear bike in 1978. I bought it to help me train for BMX racing. In 1984 I bought my first MTB: A specialized Stumpjumper. In 1987 I worked with product managers and graphic designers on GT's first legit full range of MTB's for the cross-country and downhill scenes. In 1995 I got the road bike bug and bought a steel Schwinn with Shimano 600 group from my friend Chris Holmes. My current stable of bikes includes a lugged Waterford with Campy Super Record components, an XT-equipped Turner Flux F/S MTB, a '91 Merlin titanium rigid MTB with Mayweather cranks, On One Mary bars, a SNAFU Taylor stem and 9-speed cassette, and a ****ty old beach cruiser for local barhopping. Like Brian Castillo at Volume, Ronnie Bonner at Shadow Conspiracy, Chris Moeller at S&M and Mark Owen at Hoffman, I love bikes, so I see no reason for limiting myself to a 20-inch quiver. Once you ride a fixie, an urban freeride MTB or a full-suspension mountain bike, I think you'll agree with me. The point of my digression is this:

Bicycles are awesome. Whenever I start to doubt it, a visit to Interbike is all it takes to get me fired up about new things. There was a ton of new things at Interbike this year, and I'm stoked about it.
 

Bryan67

Chimp
Nov 23, 2007
83
0
Fresno, Ca.
Personally, I loved that RIDE article and the photos. I`ve ridden BMX since I was 12 (I`m 44 now). But now ride a 26 Union Street WCH and love it. I do not however consider it a mountain bike by any means. I think there is a difference between what I ride and a multi speed tall frame mountain bike. Nothing against them and I`ve tried it in the past (Santa Cruz Heckler) but its just not for me. I`m just not the lycra wearing, powerbar eating, water bottle carrying, uphill riding kind of guy. To me, my bike is just a big BMX bike and I think that maybe Fudger is thinking of the other mountain bike guys instead of us.
 

don

Turbo Monkey
Nov 8, 2001
1,321
0
Rumson, NJ
Personally, I loved that RIDE article and the photos. I`ve ridden BMX since I was 12 (I`m 44 now). But now ride a 26 Union Street WCH and love it. I do not however consider it a mountain bike by any means. I think there is a difference between what I ride and a multi speed tall frame mountain bike. Nothing against them and I`ve tried it in the past (Santa Cruz Heckler) but its just not for me. I`m just not the lycra wearing, powerbar eating, water bottle carrying, uphill riding kind of guy. To me, my bike is just a big BMX bike and I think that maybe Fudger is thinking of the other mountain bike guys instead of us.
I think he is thinking exactly of us. You typically won't find a multi-speed, water bottle XC guy at the park or trails. I agree that I wouldn't consider a 26" Union Street WCH a mountain bike and it is more like a big BMX bike but unfortunately Fudger isn't on that same thought.
 

eaterofdog

ass grabber
Sep 8, 2006
7,826
910
Central Florida
You typically won't find a multi-speed, water bottle XC guy at the park or trails.
We DO see these guys at our forest riding area near the XC trails. A few of them immediately ditch the spandex and stinkbug bike to start wearing baggies and riding a dirtjumper. We filter out the thrillseekers and the pedalmashers keep going.
 

WaveDude

Chimp
Sep 7, 2001
77
0
TX
I`m just not the lycra wearing, powerbar eating, water bottle carrying, uphill riding kind of guy.
This lycra wearer is pretty freekin' awesome:

MTB, BMX, 24, 20, 26, 29...who cares. The attitude and skill of the rider is what matters more than what they're riding.
 

cmc

Turbo Monkey
Nov 17, 2006
2,061
6
austin
I think he is thinking exactly of us. . . . . I agree that I wouldn't consider a 26" Union Street WCH a mountain bike and it is more like a big BMX bike but unfortunately Fudger isn't on that same thought.

exactly right.

As I said earlier in the thread, I think the BMX industry/BMX media are at a crossroads:

1) One option is to adopt more formats (larger wheels, maybe even suspension!?) and still call it BMX.
2) Another is to evoke an alliance with or respect for DJ/DH/4x yet still maintain distinction (mtb is different but fun/cool too).
3) Third option is to attack and discredit (like World Industries, Thrasher etc. did against rollerblading).

I think as all this plays out, we're going to see variations of all three approaches. But, I predict #2 will be the main path forward. DJ/DH/4x is "bicycle motocross." But it's a cousin not a brother. Fundamental reason will be economics; most industries consist of a moderate number of major players selling very similar products to a target group of consumers. If there are too many differences/options it confuses consumers and increases risk. (Think of cameras....in the point-and-shoot digital market, all cameras have trended towards (1) more megapixels = better (2) bigger view screen = better (3) HD mpeg is selling point (4) wide angle = better. Or in the BMX world... all frames look very similar, all handlebars look similar, all wheels are now 36's instead of 48's, most cassette hubs click loudly to imitate Profile, etc.)

Most 13 year olds (or 21 year olds) can't afford to have both kinds of bikes--therefore a BMX magazine and BMX company identity has to stay more focused to their market. Questionable whether you'll see companies like Eastern advertising the Nighttrain in RIDE, or DIG doing bike checks on a Blackmarket. As much as individuals may be open minded, when dollars and brand identity are at stake, they will be more conservative.

At the same time, the MTB industry is changing:
1) More and more younger riders will not be interested in XC bikes, but will want DJ/park bikes instead.
2) Formerly marginalized/small DH scene will get more exposure and credit as slopestyle and other TV-friendly disciplines add to glamour. Expect DECLINE and DIRT UK to contain more DJ/mtbmx-ish coverage.
3) MTB activists and trail builders adopt dirt jump lines and freeride features more and more as acceptable parts of trail systems. IMBA has already been on that.
 

kidwoo

Celebrating No-Pants Day
Aug 25, 2003
26,903
4,579
In my pants
I'll be honest. I'd own a 20" if I could stick some disc brakes on it. That really is the only thing keeping me from getting one. Cuz god knows I'd be killing myself on the thing the first few days out.
 

don

Turbo Monkey
Nov 8, 2001
1,321
0
Rumson, NJ
Great post cmc. I certainly agree on all points and has me wanting to add some things:

Media: Out of all the magazines out there both bmx and mtb - I can't really get into any of them. They are slick looking and all that but I find myself reading parts from each to get what I want. There hasn't been one in a long time I've read cover to cover. Would love something right in the middle - like Cru's Liquid Dirt site and a little bit grindstate. I think there are snowboard and skate mags like this but I cannot for the life of me think of their names.

Racing: I think modern day BMX racing is for sh!t. Sorry, I just think it lost something over the years. I watched that Stu Thomson DVD recently and it really so clear. I think 4x/DS is more like BMX racing than what is going on today at NBL and ABA tracks. Bring back the knobbies, the water jumps, flat corners, downhills, jumps to flat if you have the room and some pitch OR if space is tight use pump track features and what guys are building at modern day trails and set up something with laps. I thought that Pump Track World Champ vid had a lot of energy and was fun to watch. I think this is an area where cmc combining BMX and big wheel stuff could be great. Have 20", 24", 26" classes if there are a lot of people or throw everyone together in an "Open" class if things are sluggish.

Kids: I had a dad come up to me recently and said he wanted to bring his son to ride a skatepark (Inlcine Club for those in the PA/NY/NJ area). I told him no way - that place is pretty much expert only. Great to watch and ride if you have the skills but WTF are new kid riders supposed to do? I lot of skateparks are like this if they are even open to bikes. My kids ride our pump track and a line I made at the trails but it's not exactly open to everyone. I think that is why Ray's has been kicking ass - he doesn't care and just makes stuff for everyone to ride - even XC dudes wanting to get miles in. Use the IMBA and local MTB clubs for organization and combine with BMX trail builder ideas and have easily available fun stuff for kids on both mtb and bmx bikes to ride.
 

TortugaTonta

Monkey
Aug 27, 2008
540
0
Wow, I'm suprised this is even a topic of conversation.

Where I come from nobody cares what bike you ride or even your skills with the bike. Its more about if you have skills with a shovel and are man enough to use it. The little nancy boys just go ride around the Mcdonalds doin bunny hop 180s or put on dh gear and ride down stairs. . .
 

cmc

Turbo Monkey
Nov 17, 2006
2,061
6
austin
Wow, I'm suprised this is even a topic of conversation.

Where I come from nobody cares what bike you ride or even your skills with the bike. Its more about if you have skills with a shovel and are man enough to use it. The little nancy boys just go ride around the Mcdonalds doin bunny hop 180s or put on dh gear and ride down stairs. . .
on the personal/local level i don't care either....

but on the level of media and industry, i think it's important to call bu11**** when needed, and to fully support companies who are supporting mtbmx and not support the ones that aren't.

the type of videos that Cru and Zach are doing are awesome for representing what is really going on. even though image and everything else shouldnt matter, it does enter into it when you start looking at sponsorship dollars and what type of bikes/products companies support etc.
 

ServeEm

Turbo Monkey
Feb 21, 2006
1,014
0
SacTown
I think it's a good topic for discussion but I don't think it's as big of a deal currently with the industry or most companies I pay attention to. I think there's gonna be a degree of seperation btwn mtbmx and bmx. Keeping bmx as a majority to the younger riders or the "have not" riders. As far as sponsership dollars and media, eh I don't have much insight so not much of an opinion. But when it comes down to respect amongst riders in my area, it's not the wheel size that matters.
 

TortugaTonta

Monkey
Aug 27, 2008
540
0
looking at it from that perspective I guess I see your point.

But I'm not sure if its because my perspective is slanted, in the sense that I'm a xc/roadie/dh'er/dj'er. Most people I know in the industry are mtb type people, so when I do an event most of the product I get is from mtb type crossover companies and not bmx companies.

Just for example I have a box of product from ethirteen on its way for my next jam, realisticly they have nothing to gain by giving us product. Half the riders will be on twentys and will never need a chain guide, another quarter are on ss mtbs and don't need a chainguide and the other quarter allready own ethirteen guides so its not like they will gain any sales by giving us stuff, But props for them wanting to be a part of the "scene" so to speak. Now my point is, if I was a bmx guy maybe I would know somebody at profile that would kick in the same way and for the same reasons, I don't know??

Maybe there is some kind of rivalry and I just don't see it, this forum is my only contact to the sport outside of my imediate scene, I don't watch tv or read magazines. I stumbled across this forum and found that most of the people actually do it, not just talk about it so its good to come here and see whats up and I definately don't see any rivalry here. . .
 

eaterofdog

ass grabber
Sep 8, 2006
7,826
910
Central Florida
I think the bigger wheel bikes will catch on as the less expensive completes begin to show up in the states. DMR and Revell are two brands that come to mind, GT also has the Ruckus. Bigger wheels just roll better.
 
Last edited:

eaterofdog

ass grabber
Sep 8, 2006
7,826
910
Central Florida
Bigger wheels just roll better.
By this I mean you can ride some rough, sketchy **** that a 20 would just bounce around on. Even the difference between my 24 and 26 is noticeable. There's a grass embankment near my house that I always hit when I ride by, but I can't clear in on the 24, the grass and bumpy run up are just too slow on the smaller wheels.
 

flowrider13

Chimp
Apr 29, 2007
2
0
this forum is crazy. who cares what wheel size you ride. no matter what kind of bike you roll on if you give respect you get respect; plain and simple. it is all about having fun and expressing yourself! mabey i am just nieve but i really have not found much a problem riding with people who have a few inches different in the diameters of their wheels. if you shred you shred and that is universal...no matter of wheel diameter can change that!
remember what it is you love about riding and respet all...
just ride.
Z
 

cmc

Turbo Monkey
Nov 17, 2006
2,061
6
austin
interesting that the company who had a lot to do with popularizing "dirt jumper mtb's" is not calling the P bikes "mountain bikes" any more.

they're filing them under a category on the website called dirt/park/street which also includes their BMX bikes. and there's no geared option. Specialized further blurs things in their description of the P.24: "Whether you call it a progressive hardtail or a 24" cruiser, the P.24 is rock solid . . . ." i can't think of anyone who would call a 24" BMX cruiser a "progressive hardtail" !!

a corporation is a certain level of BIG when it can re-define words that people use.

MOUNTAIN:
http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBCMain.jsp?scid=1000

DIRT/PARK/STREET:
http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBCBkFamily.jsp?sid=11P.Bikes&scid=1004

this kinda reminds me of 'back in the day' when all BMX bikes were race bikes. then a new category of "freestyle" BMX. mat hoffman, for example, used to say "i'm a freestyler" or "i ride freestyle." but in the early 90's the "freestyle" part got dropped (like in the title RIDE BMX magazine and DIG BMX Magazine) and BMX was redefined. a bike for park/street/jumping was a "bmx" bike, but if you meant racing you had to specify. bmx 'race' bike.

could it be that a couple of years from now, "BMX" will get re-defined to include 26" . . . . or is it part of a fade-out of the P. bikes by Specialized?
 
Last edited:

BeerMe

Monkey
Apr 18, 2008
139
0
FOCO NOCO
In my opinion fixie tricks are the only form of riding everyone should get behind hating. How that **** came to be just does not even make sense.
 

pnj

Turbo Monkey till the fat lady sings
Aug 14, 2002
4,697
40
seattle
People were doing tricks on fixed geared bikes way before bmx/freestyle existed. They are the original circus freaks.