[Heidi]

A couple people have mentioned that they want to lose 5-10 pounds. There was an article in Bicycling Magazine about bonk training.

1. Upon waking, drink 2-3 cups of coffee up to 45 min before riding. Don't eat.

2. Ride at endurance pace - 60-70% of your max heart rate, or a casual pace that doesn't make you pant when you talk.

3. Keep it up for 20-90 minutes.

4. You can do this on consecutive days, but mix in at least one normal breakfast per week (eat before you ride, or enjoy breakfast, then ride later).

5. Eat your typical breakfast as soon as the ride ends.

Andy Pruitt, the clinical director of Boulder Center for Sports Medicine says he has seen plenty of cyclists shed their guts with bonk training. It ignites your fat-burning metabolism and it stays lit during the day. It works because there is no readily available fuel source for your muscles, so your body has to seek out fuel - stored fat. Don't ride like this for longer that 90 min or your body will start to break down muscle and protein in organs.

 

[I Are Baboon]

Seems to me that working out at this kind of intensity without eating would cause your body to burn muscle for fuel.

 

[Heidi]

Originally posted by I Are Baboon
Seems to me that working out at this kind of intensity without eating would cause your body to burn muscle for fuel.

But it's not that high an intensity - only 60% MHR.

 

[monkeywrench]

Definitely eat/drink within a half hour after finishing though, and make sure you throw some protien in there. I've also seen this type of workout regimen in Runner's World and Muscle and Fitness.

 

[laura]

im gonna try it out.

 

[Heidi]

Originally posted by Acadian


make sure not to ever do it at the beginning...you could cause more harm than good if you bonk hard! I don't know if you already bonked hard...but it takes a while to recover from that.

I accidentally did it this morning. I woke up late and didn't have time to eat and let it digest before my workout. There is a huge hill about 10 min into my ride that always makes food come back up if it isn't fully digested. So, without even the coffee, I headed out for my commute. I did not bonk though, I felt fine.

 

[monkeywrench]

Originally posted by Heidi


I accidentally did it this morning. I woke up late and didn't have time to eat and let it digest before my workout. There is a huge hill about 10 min into my ride that always makes food come back up if it isn't fully digested. So, without even the coffee, I headed out for my commute. I did not bonk though, I felt fine.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, we get it already. Your'e hardcore!

 

[Heidi]

Originally posted by monkeywrench


Yeah, yeah, yeah, we get it already. Your'e hardcore!

No, that wasn't my point. My point was that I guess the coffee is so that the caffeine will keep you going. Acadian is right, you have to be careful what the effects of different things are on your rides.

 

[mario]

Caffeine is a stimulant that has well documented ergogenic effects.

It has been shown to decrease marathon run times and cycling time trials. Caffeine affects the body in several different ways. One way caffeine improves performance is by affecting the central nervous system causing increased neuronal excitability, consequently reducing reaction time. Another theory is that caffeine increases free fatty acid oxidation so that fatty acids are used for energy in place of glycogen (your body's main source of energy that is used during exercise). This allows glycogen levels to be maintained for a longer period of time, allowing you to ride longer.

Caffeine research has shown that consuming 3 to 6 milligrams of caffeine per kilogram body weight (or about 1.4-2.7 mg of caffeine per pound) can improve endurance by 20% to 50% without raising urinary caffeine levels above the International Olympic Committee limit of 1200 mg. Therefore, a 175 pound man will need 245 to 472 mg of caffeine. This level can be obtained by drinking 24 ounces of tea or 2 cups of coffee.

Source: Ultra Marathon Cycling Association

 

[Toshi]

Does this method work without the coffee? I always forget to eat before morning rides, and I'm still fat.

 

[mario]

More about Caffeine:

Beverage - Average Caffeine (mg)

Coffee, brewed, drip method, 8 ounces: 165
Cofffee, instant, 8 ounces: 95
Tea, 10 ounces brewed: 80-120
Iced tea, 12 ounces: 70
Hot cocoa, 8 ounces: 5
Diet Pepsi: 35
Dr. Pepper: 40
Pepsi Cola: 40
Coca Cola: 45
Diet Coke: 45
Tab: 45
Mountain Dew: 55

Over-the-Counter Drugs (mg)

Anacin, 2 tablets: 32
Excedrin, 1 tablet: 65
No Doz, 1 tablet: 100
Dexatrim, 1 tablet: 100
Vivarin, 1 tablet: 200

Possible side effects of caffeine use include dizziness, headache, insomnia, nausea, gastrointestinal distress, muscle tremors and palpitations. If you choose to use caffeine, try using it 1-2 weeks before an event to gauge it's effectiveness. Regular caffeine intake will lessen its beneficial side effects due to the body's ability to develop a tolerance to it so to receive the maximum benefits of caffeine. It is recommended that caffeine be consumed about one hour before an event. It is also possible to benefit from drinking defizzed sodas during a ride.

Because caffeine is a known diuretic, it is important to drink adequate fluids before, during and after exercise. The caffeine dose shouldn't pose a problem if you drink properly; however, caffeine increases urine production so you may want to avoid caffeinated beverages after exercise when you are trying to replace fluid losses.

Source: Ultra Marathon Cycling Association

 

[I Are Baboon]

I drink a 24oz. coffee every day.

 

[The Toninator]

I dont drink coffee, i dont drink tea and i dont drink soda's. If i need Caffeine i'll take a vivarin.

 

[Topaz]

There's only 1 problem with this weight loss method. It's BORING as hell. 60-70% of max? I might as well go out for a walk cause there's no way I can go up a steep incline at 70% of max. So that means I'll have to ride around the block for 60-90 mins? Kill me now!

 

[Heidi]

Originally posted by Topaz
There's only 1 problem with this weight loss method. It's BORING as hell. 60-70% of max? I might as well go out for a walk cause there's no way I can go up a steep incline at 70% of max. So that means I'll have to ride around the block for 60-90 mins? Kill me now!

Well, for training purposes you aren't supposed to ride 100% all the time. It's good for your body to have days where you are at 60-70%.

 

[Mocha]

If I have coffee on an empty stomach I get way too jittery followed by a hard crash. I do have tea first thing in the morning though. I wonder if it's as effective.

 

[MtnBikerChk]

Originally posted by Topaz
There's only 1 problem with this weight loss method. It's BORING as hell. 60-70% of max? I might as well go out for a walk cause there's no way I can go up a steep incline at 70% of max. So that means I'll have to ride around the block for 60-90 mins? Kill me now!

you burn more fat calories at lower heart rates - and you can do it for longer periods of time.

 

[Topaz]

How many days do you typically ride and for how long?

 

[Heidi]

Originally posted by Topaz
How many days do you typically ride and for how long?

You talkin to me?

 

[JOJO]

My problem is that I never want to go that easy. I know it is important for training but everytime I teach or ride I want to push it. I have trouble motivating my class without workin hard myself.

Any suggestions?

 

[The Toninator]

Originally posted by JOJO
My problem is that I never want to go that easy. I know it is important for training but everytime I teach or ride I want to push it. I have trouble motivating my class without workin hard myself.

Any suggestions?

hey jojo are you using an hrm I find that even a really hard effort like the one i describe here http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27327 that is totally an aerobic work out as i average about 140 to 145 per class (that's within my 70 to 80% zone.) The intervals are tough and get the heart rate up but the cadence brings it down once you settle into a grove. So it feels harder zone wise than it actually is.

 

[Heidi]

Originally posted by JOJO
My problem is that I never want to go that easy. I know it is important for training but everytime I teach or ride I want to push it. I have trouble motivating my class without workin hard myself.

Any suggestions?

JOJO your case is "special" though. You don't need to do bonk training to lose weight, you don't have any to lose! I don't think I'd be able to go easy while trying to teach a class either, but I don't think you have to. Teach your classes at your regualr intensity and then one day a week just go out and do a casual ride. How many classes are you teaching now?

 

[Orvan]

I don't shave my legs enough to read Bicycling Magazine..but I have a question...is there a cutoff as far as when you wake and when you have the coffee for the ride? Or is mid-morning ok (which puts my body close to a lunch craze).....just wondering if this exercise/training needs be undertaken early..I mean real early..

 

[JOJO]

Originally posted by Heidi


JOJO your case is "special" though. You don't need to do bonk training to lose weight, you don't have any to lose! I don't think I'd be able to go easy while trying to teach a class either, but I don't think you have to. Teach your classes at your regualr intensity and then one day a week just go out and do a casual ride. How many classes are you teaching now?

Too Many! 5 spin classes now but some weeks 6 if I have to sub and 1 1/2 Fitball classes. Thanks for the advice. Oh and your right about the weight thing I am actually trying to gain some..... its hard to do teaching so many classes but I need the $$ and its fun

 

[Heidi]

Originally posted by Orven
I don't shave my legs enough to read Bicycling Magazine..but I have a question...is there a cutoff as far as when you wake and when you have the coffee for the ride? Or is mid-morning ok (which puts my body close to a lunch craze).....just wondering if this exercise/training needs be undertaken early..I mean real early..

Well, the earlier you "jumpstart" your metabolism the better. Get your lazy butt outta bed boy!

 

[Heidi]

Originally posted by JOJO



Too Many! 5 spin classes now but some weeks 6 if I have to sub and 1 1/2 Fitball classes. Thanks for the advice. Oh and your right about the weight thing I am actually trying to gain some..... its hard to do teaching so many classes but I need the $$ and its fun

5

 

[JOJO]

Originally posted by Heidi


5

I know, its crazy Once I start getting more clients in my Personal training business I am going to stop teaching so many classes. It makes it tough to motivate to ride outside but I still manage to do it

 

[Heidi]

Originally posted by JOJO


It makes it tough to motivate to ride outside but I still manage to do it

Well, yah, cause you've probably already ridden umpteen miles in your spin classes!

 

[mario]

Topaz: If your goal is to go out and have fun everytime you are on the bike, then do what feels good. If you are trying to improve endurance, strength, speed or whatever, you need to train those skills specifically. And, as Heidi pointed out, your body needs a break. Training is not what makes you stronger, it's the rest after a hard session. If you are doing more than three hard sessions a week, you are not giving your body a chance to recover. If you do it consistently, you actually risk DECREASING your cardiovascular fitness. And you will probably pick up a cold in the process since you are depleting your immune system. Out of respect for the Bonk Training thread I will quit here. Good luck!

 

[Orvan]

Originally posted by Heidi


Well, the earlier you "jumpstart" your metabolism the better. Get your lazy butt outta bed boy!

fine...I'll put my body into a shock starting Monday next week...8 is early enough right?

 

[Orvan]

Update...

whenever I finish this regiment...my body feels great (and deprived) but I get a massive headache...

 

[Heidi]

Originally posted by Orven
Update...

whenever I finish this regiment...my body feels great (and deprived) but I get a massive headache...

Maybe it's the caffeine?

 

[-BB-]

HEIDI, ACADIAN, or anyone else...

Does drinking your coffee with cream and SUGAR negate the effects of this regiment?

 

[Heidi]

Originally posted by -BB-
HEIDI, ACADIAN, or anyone else...

Does drinking your coffee with cream and SUGAR negate the effects of this regiment?

I don't drink coffee, but it seems to me like if you are trying to lose weight that you should be cutting out the cream and sugar. Those turn out to equal fat.

 

[-BB-]

Originally posted by Heidi


I don't drink coffee, but it seems to me like if you are trying to lose weight that you should be cutting out the cream and sugar. Those turn out to equal fat.

True... True... but will it negate the effects of the regiment b/c the sugar is carbs, and will act just like a "breakfast".

So... all calories/fat per day being equal, does that little bit of sugar BEFORE the ride screw it up?

 

[Orvan]

Originally posted by Heidi


Maybe it's the caffeine?

nope...I have sometime bypassed the coffee stage...

I think it's the exertion level...I mean, cmon..you expect me to go just around 70% effort in Big Bear....pfft!

 

[Heidi]

Originally posted by -BB-


True... True... but will it negate the effects of the regiment b/c the sugar is carbs, and will act just like a "breakfast".

So... all calories/fat per day being equal, does that little bit of sugar BEFORE the ride screw it up?

I would think so. You want your body to not use anything you just ate to fuel itself. you want it to HAVE to go to the reserves.

 

[Orvan]

dammit....
I was gonna ride today but I ate a chicken tamale 2 hrs ago...
bonk training starts again tomorrow...

 

[Gee]

MtnBikerChk:
you burn more fat calories at lower heart rates - and you can do it for longer periods of time.

You are aware, aren't you, that this fat-burning is only true in the relative sense not the absolute sense?

'Regulation of Endogenous Fat and Carbohydrate Metabolism in Relation to Exercise Intensity and Duration,' American Journal of Physiology, vol. 265, pp. E380-391, 1993
http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0424.htm

 

[Stanker]

I haven't had any problems with add a little milk/sugar. I think if you get enough caffiene in you it should make you gacked enough to ride faster...

I can eat what ever I want and bonk train at least once/twice a week.

Didn't even know this had a name...We just always say we'd get GACKED and go ride on an empty stomach.
Seems to work though.

I always train at 80-95% of my MAX HR (185) is this bad for BONK training?