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Bontrager/DT 54 point ratchet

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
10,884
1,147
Seattle
Anybody know where I can buy one? My google-fu is failing. It does fit 240 hubs, right?
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
16,740
1,428
01776
Order from a dealer, about $60 per ratchet, you need two.

I've asked by LBS about them at least twice...but the 120 on top of the cost of a dt hub is a little much.
 

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
10,884
1,147
Seattle
call hadley. problem solved.
I already own 3 pairs of Hadleys. I've also got two pairs of DT 240s that I want to upgrade to moar ratchetz already. And a pair of Kings and a pair of Hopes for good measure.

I maybe have too many wheels.
 

jonKranked

Press Button, Receive Stupid
Nov 10, 2005
61,044
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I already own 3 pairs of Hadleys. I've also got two pairs of DT 240s that I want to upgrade to moar ratchetz already. And a pair of Kings and a pair of Hopes for good measure.

I maybe have too many wheels.
your problem is the following:

# of hadley < # of wheels
 

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
10,884
1,147
Seattle
Honestly, I view the DTs as being at least as good as the Hadleys. They're a LOT lighter, and have been every bit as bombproof. I'll take one of those two in front of anything else out there though.
 

wood booger

Monkey
Jul 16, 2008
669
72
the land of cheap beer
DT has issues w/ the 36 tooth ratchets breaking (shearing teeth tips off), don't know how well these hold up. Tooth interface surface must get pretty small with 54t....

I find if you stretch the springs out a bit to get more "preload" on the ratchet it helps. Makes them sound a bit meaner too!
 

Dogboy

Turbo Monkey
Apr 12, 2004
3,136
274
Chapel Hill, NC
DT has issues w/ the 36 tooth ratchets breaking (shearing teeth tips off), don't know how well these hold up. Tooth interface surface must get pretty small with 54t....

I find if you stretch the springs out a bit to get more "preload" on the ratchet it helps. Makes them sound a bit meaner too!
I've had multiple 36t star ratchets with nary a problem. I'll chalk any user issues up to dirty hubs or not using proper lube.
 

wood booger

Monkey
Jul 16, 2008
669
72
the land of cheap beer
I've had multiple 36t star ratchets with nary a problem. I'll chalk any user issues up to dirty hubs or not using proper lube.
Maybe just a DHer that doesn't pedal :)

I have witnessed 3 of them self destruct, all under load. The tips of the teeth shear off resulting in slipping and nasty noises. All with proper maintenance to boot. These are the light weight ones that are hollow...
 

Dogboy

Turbo Monkey
Apr 12, 2004
3,136
274
Chapel Hill, NC
Maybe just a DHer that doesn't pedal :)

I have witnessed 3 of them self destruct, all under load. The tips of the teeth shear off resulting in slipping and nasty noises. All with proper maintenance to boot. These are the light weight ones that are hollow...
Haha, nope. A full time pedaler with a ton of miles on 'em. Granted I'm not a freehub destroyer, but I've had no issues.
 

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist: “I Brake for Birds”
Mar 14, 2005
4,842
1,037
The DT system is somewhat flawed in that it has a very small percentage of axial torque increase as a function of radial torque increase on those drive rings. This means that theres a higher chance of the mechanism slipping apart (or having less than full engagement depth) under higher loads. The springs are just there to encourage the initial engagement, they are far too weak to do anything else. Stretching them for example would increase drag far more than it would actually benefit engagement, but if they are deformed then it may help to restore original function.

If you run more teeth on these ratchets you compound the issue, because in the case of incomplete engagement, the individual teeth have less volume behind them particularly near the tips are are more likely to crack as a result:

Thick grease or excess grease is bad, as are contaminants, but you can't always blame those - I believe this one was a new hub untouched from factory, and DT use very good labyrinth seals.

A better implementation of this design is in the Chris King hubs, which uses angled/helical radial teeth (rather than straight ones on the DT) which means a substantial increase in axial torque (squeezing the drive rings together) as radial torque is increased. They're also overly complicated and expensive though.


I think the 36 and 54 DT ratchets will be fine under lighter riders, and I found medium viscosity oils best for lubrication - if you're using grease it needs to be light and in small quantity. If you've got calves like Kovarik I'd give them a miss.
 

MmmBones

Monkey
May 8, 2011
272
84
Porkland, OR
Looks like these 54t ratchets have recently become available outside of your Trek dealer. I just started experiencing slipping on my 36t ratchets after 4 years of use on both my trail and DH bike, probably from using too much DT grease on the last rebuild, which I fixed (albeit temporarily) by rebuilding again with minimal DT grease, but I'm looking at replacing them with this 54t kit since it's the same price as the 36t ratchets.

You can find them on Ebay now (or your keen LBS) and The kit will be available from Jenson in a few days -

[URL]http://www.jensonusa.com/!9eIjccS71iT!VSwTlZaDmw!/DT-Swiss-54T-Star-Ratchet-Upgrade-Kit?utm_source=FRGL&utm_medium=organic&gclid=CjwKEAiAy7SzBRD_lv7quOnr6XUSJAAOLkW6jBX2y_JyQvJQ2h-Qm45XzFmB91RP4HhYfrhsMXRjQxoCnNvw_wcBhttp://www.jensonusa.com/!9eIjccS71iT!VSwTlZaDmw!/DT-Swiss-54T-Star-Ratchet-Upgrade-Kit?utm_source=FRGL&utm_medium=organic&gclid=CjwKEAiAy7SzBRD_lv7quOnr6XUSJAAOLkW6jBX2y_JyQvJQ2h-Qm45XzFmB91RP4HhYfrhsMXRjQxoCnNvw_wcB[/URL]
 

wood booger

Monkey
Jul 16, 2008
669
72
the land of cheap beer
Do yourself a favor and stretch those spring! Especially if your hub has become quieter than when new. I usually make the free length 2-3mm longer than stock.

I have been running a set of "strip happy" 54t's for 6 months now. No problems after stretching the springs, and there is no notable increase in drag, just a bit louder "buzz".
My buddy striped some 36t's (he is a big boy), in less than a month from brand new. Replaced them and stretched the springs out and he is still running fine a year later.

DT Swiss will never admit this, but I think they have issues with the springs and slipping issue. Albeit a rather small issue, but a issue none the less.
When visiting the actual factory in Asia where the hubs are made, it was suggested to stretch the stock spring out (or use a longer one) as a means to help the star ratchet stripping issue.
DT Swiss (Asia) said that was a great idea........:thumb:

If you ask the Swiss they would just drown you in 45 minutes of senseless engineering dribble in hopes you forget what you were asking in the first place, or you just give up.
 

Racebike

Monkey
Jul 28, 2008
463
4
Sweden
I ran the 54t on both my Session and Remedy this year, no issues.
As mentioned, light lube or a very small portion of DT grease is the ticket.

I weigh 190lbs and I'm quite pedal happy, I was sceptical in the beginning though (re: earlier 36t fails)

Anyone know what happened to DT's plans on running magnets embedded in the star ratchets instead of the springs?
 

slimshady

¡Mira, una ardilla!
Anyone know what happened to DT's plans on running magnets embedded in the star ratchets instead of the springs?
Because patents. Tune has that front covered with their Mig/Mag hubs. I believe I read somewhere they are also litigating Absolute Black for infringing their right to monetize an idea.

EDIT: They have also licensed it to Absolute Black for their F117-compatible crabon hubs.
 
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nmpearson

Monkey
Dec 30, 2006
214
8
I fixed my problems with dt swiss and king hubs by just buying industry nine from here on out. I do love hadley though
 

dump

Turbo Monkey
Oct 12, 2001
5,734
543
I fixed my problems with dt swiss and king hubs by just buying industry nine from here on out. I do love hadley though
Industry9... with the aluminum spokes? That doesn't seem like a good idea.
 

nmpearson

Monkey
Dec 30, 2006
214
8
Industry9... with the aluminum spokes? That doesn't seem like a good idea.
Although I have no problem with the aluminum spokes, I just bought the hubs because I prefer to have certain rims. I just built up what I wanted.
 

jackalope

Mental acuity - 1%
Jan 9, 2004
6,207
2,934
in a single wide, cooking meth...
I fixed my problems with dt swiss and king hubs by just buying industry nine from here on out. I do love hadley though
This. To be fair, I never had any failures with my DT 36 toofs, but holy hell getting some of those bearings out looked to be super unpleasant. Plus, there really is a nice difference in engagement with the 108 Hadleys and 120 Indy 9s IMO.



Industry9... with the aluminum spokes? That doesn't seem like a good idea.

I had the same concern, but the alum spokes on my AM bike have been absolutely bomber, and seem to help make for a very stiff wheel. I will be sad when I eventually break one(s) given they're like $8/spoke or something, but so far, so good.
 

dump

Turbo Monkey
Oct 12, 2001
5,734
543
Can't say I've had any trouble with my dt hub... My main hub is over 10 yrs old! Fully rebuilt it once.

Think it's 18 pt engagement... which is pretty much only for folks that know how to ride. :P