Quantcast

Bontrager/DT 54 point ratchet

Discussion in 'Downhill & Freeride' started by HAB, Apr 19, 2015.

  1. HAB

    HAB Chelsea from Seattle

    Rep/Likes:
    81 / 818
    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2007
    Messages:
    10,493
    Location:
    Seattle
    Anybody know where I can buy one? My google-fu is failing. It does fit 240 hubs, right?
     

    Please register to disable this ad.

  2. SDet

    SDet Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    15 / 41
    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2014
    Messages:
    150
    Location:
    Boulder Co
    Yes, but I'm pretty sure you have to buy them from a trek dealer in person. But a 54 point 240 is possible.
     
  3. 'size

    'size Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    9 / 245
    Joined:
    May 30, 2007
    Messages:
    1,914
    Location:
    AZ
    #3 -   Apr 19, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2015
  4. Sandwich

    Sandwich Pig my fish!
    Staff Member

    Rep/Likes:
    69 / 863
    Joined:
    May 23, 2002
    Messages:
    15,751
    Location:
    01776
    Order from a dealer, about $60 per ratchet, you need two.

    I've asked by LBS about them at least twice...but the 120 on top of the cost of a dt hub is a little much.
     
  5. yd35

    yd35 Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    12 / 61
    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2008
    Messages:
    744
    Location:
    NY
    Very cool, didn't even know these things existed.
     
  6. jonKranked

    jonKranked Press Button, Receive Stupid

    Rep/Likes:
    391 / 3,906
    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    55,306
    Location:
    media blackout
    call hadley. problem solved.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  7. HAB

    HAB Chelsea from Seattle

    Rep/Likes:
    81 / 818
    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2007
    Messages:
    10,493
    Location:
    Seattle
    I already own 3 pairs of Hadleys. I've also got two pairs of DT 240s that I want to upgrade to moar ratchetz already. And a pair of Kings and a pair of Hopes for good measure.

    I maybe have too many wheels.
     
  8. jonKranked

    jonKranked Press Button, Receive Stupid

    Rep/Likes:
    391 / 3,906
    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    55,306
    Location:
    media blackout
    your problem is the following:

    # of hadley < # of wheels
     
  9. HAB

    HAB Chelsea from Seattle

    Rep/Likes:
    81 / 818
    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2007
    Messages:
    10,493
    Location:
    Seattle
    Honestly, I view the DTs as being at least as good as the Hadleys. They're a LOT lighter, and have been every bit as bombproof. I'll take one of those two in front of anything else out there though.
     
  10. wood booger

    wood booger Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    3 / 73
    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2008
    Messages:
    670
    Location:
    the land of cheap beer
    DT has issues w/ the 36 tooth ratchets breaking (shearing teeth tips off), don't know how well these hold up. Tooth interface surface must get pretty small with 54t....

    I find if you stretch the springs out a bit to get more "preload" on the ratchet it helps. Makes them sound a bit meaner too!
     
  11. Dogboy

    Dogboy Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    17 / 212
    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2004
    Messages:
    3,137
    Location:
    Chapel Hill, NC
    I've had multiple 36t star ratchets with nary a problem. I'll chalk any user issues up to dirty hubs or not using proper lube.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  12. wood booger

    wood booger Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    3 / 73
    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2008
    Messages:
    670
    Location:
    the land of cheap beer
    Maybe just a DHer that doesn't pedal :)

    I have witnessed 3 of them self destruct, all under load. The tips of the teeth shear off resulting in slipping and nasty noises. All with proper maintenance to boot. These are the light weight ones that are hollow...
     
  13. Dogboy

    Dogboy Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    17 / 212
    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2004
    Messages:
    3,137
    Location:
    Chapel Hill, NC
    Haha, nope. A full time pedaler with a ton of miles on 'em. Granted I'm not a freehub destroyer, but I've had no issues.
     
  14. Sandwich

    Sandwich Pig my fish!
    Staff Member

    Rep/Likes:
    69 / 863
    Joined:
    May 23, 2002
    Messages:
    15,751
    Location:
    01776
    I've read they are very sensitive to the lube you use.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  15. yd35

    yd35 Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    12 / 61
    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2008
    Messages:
    744
    Location:
    NY
    Hubs or cornholes?
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  16. HAB

    HAB Chelsea from Seattle

    Rep/Likes:
    81 / 818
    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2007
    Messages:
    10,493
    Location:
    Seattle
    Yes.
     
  17. mykel

    mykel Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    91 / 495
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2013
    Messages:
    1,862
    Location:
    sw ontario canada
    Both
     
  18. tomasis7

    tomasis7 stroganoff

    Rep/Likes:
    17 / 65
    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2014
    Messages:
    623
    Location:
    Electronic bong-shed LEGAL
    been running dt350 a while, dont want "upgrade". not worthy..
     
  19. kidwoo

    kidwoo Celebrating No-Pants Day

    Rep/Likes:
    161 / 1,561
    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2003
    Messages:
    21,880
    Location:
    In my pants

    I think I know the problem :D
     
  20. Udi

    Udi RM Chief Ornithologist: “I Brake for Birds”

    Rep/Likes:
    94 / 791
    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    Messages:
    4,714
    The DT system is somewhat flawed in that it has a very small percentage of axial torque increase as a function of radial torque increase on those drive rings. This means that theres a higher chance of the mechanism slipping apart (or having less than full engagement depth) under higher loads. The springs are just there to encourage the initial engagement, they are far too weak to do anything else. Stretching them for example would increase drag far more than it would actually benefit engagement, but if they are deformed then it may help to restore original function.

    If you run more teeth on these ratchets you compound the issue, because in the case of incomplete engagement, the individual teeth have less volume behind them particularly near the tips are are more likely to crack as a result:

    Thick grease or excess grease is bad, as are contaminants, but you can't always blame those - I believe this one was a new hub untouched from factory, and DT use very good labyrinth seals.

    A better implementation of this design is in the Chris King hubs, which uses angled/helical radial teeth (rather than straight ones on the DT) which means a substantial increase in axial torque (squeezing the drive rings together) as radial torque is increased. They're also overly complicated and expensive though.


    I think the 36 and 54 DT ratchets will be fine under lighter riders, and I found medium viscosity oils best for lubrication - if you're using grease it needs to be light and in small quantity. If you've got calves like Kovarik I'd give them a miss.
     
    • Useful Useful x 3
  21. MmmBones

    MmmBones Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    19 / 84
    Joined:
    May 8, 2011
    Messages:
    271
    Location:
    Porkland, OR
    Looks like these 54t ratchets have recently become available outside of your Trek dealer. I just started experiencing slipping on my 36t ratchets after 4 years of use on both my trail and DH bike, probably from using too much DT grease on the last rebuild, which I fixed (albeit temporarily) by rebuilding again with minimal DT grease, but I'm looking at replacing them with this 54t kit since it's the same price as the 36t ratchets.

    You can find them on Ebay now (or your keen LBS) and The kit will be available from Jenson in a few days -

    http://www.jensonusa.com/!9eIjccS71...yQvJQ2h-Qm45XzFmB91RP4HhYfrhsMXRjQxoCnNvw_wcBhttp://www.jensonusa.com/!9eIjccS71iT!VSwTlZaDmw!/DT-Swiss-54T-Star-Ratchet-Upgrade-Kit?utm_source=FRGL&utm_medium=organic&gclid=CjwKEAiAy7SzBRD_lv7quOnr6XUSJAAOLkW6jBX2y_JyQvJQ2h-Qm45XzFmB91RP4HhYfrhsMXRjQxoCnNvw_wcB
     
  22. SDet

    SDet Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    15 / 41
    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2014
    Messages:
    150
    Location:
    Boulder Co
    They're still rather expensive.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  23. wood booger

    wood booger Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    3 / 73
    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2008
    Messages:
    670
    Location:
    the land of cheap beer
    Do yourself a favor and stretch those spring! Especially if your hub has become quieter than when new. I usually make the free length 2-3mm longer than stock.

    I have been running a set of "strip happy" 54t's for 6 months now. No problems after stretching the springs, and there is no notable increase in drag, just a bit louder "buzz".
    My buddy striped some 36t's (he is a big boy), in less than a month from brand new. Replaced them and stretched the springs out and he is still running fine a year later.

    DT Swiss will never admit this, but I think they have issues with the springs and slipping issue. Albeit a rather small issue, but a issue none the less.
    When visiting the actual factory in Asia where the hubs are made, it was suggested to stretch the stock spring out (or use a longer one) as a means to help the star ratchet stripping issue.
    DT Swiss (Asia) said that was a great idea........:thumb:

    If you ask the Swiss they would just drown you in 45 minutes of senseless engineering dribble in hopes you forget what you were asking in the first place, or you just give up.
     
  24. Racebike

    Racebike Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    2 / 4
    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2008
    Messages:
    465
    Location:
    Sweden
    I ran the 54t on both my Session and Remedy this year, no issues.
    As mentioned, light lube or a very small portion of DT grease is the ticket.

    I weigh 190lbs and I'm quite pedal happy, I was sceptical in the beginning though (re: earlier 36t fails)

    Anyone know what happened to DT's plans on running magnets embedded in the star ratchets instead of the springs?
     
  25. slimshady

    slimshady ¡Mira, una ardilla!

    Rep/Likes:
    51 / 612
    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2007
    Messages:
    2,498
    Location:
    La Plata, Argentina
    Because patents. Tune has that front covered with their Mig/Mag hubs. I believe I read somewhere they are also litigating Absolute Black for infringing their right to monetize an idea.

    EDIT: They have also licensed it to Absolute Black for their F117-compatible crabon hubs.
     
    #25 -   Dec 15, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2015
  26. Racebike

    Racebike Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    2 / 4
    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2008
    Messages:
    465
    Location:
    Sweden
    Ahh, thanks for the info. :cheers:
     
  27. nmpearson

    nmpearson Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    2 / 8
    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2006
    Messages:
    214
    I fixed my problems with dt swiss and king hubs by just buying industry nine from here on out. I do love hadley though
     
  28. dump

    dump Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    11 / 208
    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2001
    Messages:
    5,424
    Industry9... with the aluminum spokes? That doesn't seem like a good idea.
     
  29. nmpearson

    nmpearson Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    2 / 8
    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2006
    Messages:
    214
    Although I have no problem with the aluminum spokes, I just bought the hubs because I prefer to have certain rims. I just built up what I wanted.
     
  30. jackalope

    jackalope Mental acuity - 1%

    Rep/Likes:
    247 / 1,665
    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2004
    Messages:
    5,750
    Location:
    in a single wide, cooking meth...
    This. To be fair, I never had any failures with my DT 36 toofs, but holy hell getting some of those bearings out looked to be super unpleasant. Plus, there really is a nice difference in engagement with the 108 Hadleys and 120 Indy 9s IMO.




    I had the same concern, but the alum spokes on my AM bike have been absolutely bomber, and seem to help make for a very stiff wheel. I will be sad when I eventually break one(s) given they're like $8/spoke or something, but so far, so good.
     
  31. amishmatt

    amishmatt Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    20 / 285
    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2005
    Messages:
    1,188
    Location:
    Lancaster, PA
    Yeah, and you can also, you know, just buy the I9 hubs and use whatever goddamn spokes you want.
     
  32. jackalope

    jackalope Mental acuity - 1%

    Rep/Likes:
    247 / 1,665
    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2004
    Messages:
    5,750
    Location:
    in a single wide, cooking meth...
    ^^
    Yes, and if you don't want the 'spensive alum spokes, you can get real with steel

     
  33. dump

    dump Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    11 / 208
    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2001
    Messages:
    5,424
    Can't say I've had any trouble with my dt hub... My main hub is over 10 yrs old! Fully rebuilt it once.

    Think it's 18 pt engagement... which is pretty much only for folks that know how to ride. :P