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BOOOOOO E-BIKES

DaveW

Space Monkey
Jul 2, 2001
9,588
1,227
Karori, Poneke Te Ika-a-Maui
Dammit, my Ebikes borked.
Turned on the shimano etube app on the phone and it said the motor needed a firmware update.
So ok update it then...... Drops the bluetooth connection partway thru and then when it tried to reset it just got stuck into a loop and bricked the motor.
DOH!!

Handy tip, always do the updates by physically plugging the system into the computer not over the bluetooth app. :doh::oops:
 

slimshady

¡Mira, una ardilla!
Dammit, my Ebikes borked.
Turned on the shimano etube app on the phone and it said the motor needed a firmware update.
So ok update it then...... Drops the bluetooth connection partway thru and then when it tried to reset it just got stuck into a loop and bricked the motor.
DOH!!

Handy tip, always do the updates by physically plugging the system into the computer not over the bluetooth app. :doh::oops:
 

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
3,879
2,434
Australia
Handy tip, always do the updates by physically plugging the system into the computer not over the bluetooth app.
My job is a control systems electrical technician at the moment. Hardwired connections for firmware updates are a must on all critical infrastructure here.

Is there a way to default your motor? Whether it is a reset button or via removing all onboard power and grounding a PCB? You may be able to get it back into a salvageable state. Alternatively, contact the manufacturer and see if they'll share protocol for cold starting. I'd imagine they simply do an exchange service these days for the whole motor as most repairs are done this way now.
 

slimshady

¡Mira, una ardilla!
My job is a control systems electrical technician at the moment. Hardwired connections for firmware updates are a must on all critical infrastructure here.
Try to picture this: the customer has some outdated server, both on firmware and OS, and they insist on running it that way because they don't know if the new firmware and OS will do fine with the outdated custom application code they have been running for the last 10 years. Then, an external auditory rears it ugly head and they are forced to jump up 16 firmware versions in one big swath...
Try to guide a Hands & Eyes guy who barely tells a server from a switch apart from 16.000 km away into cold booting a server you tried to update over the network. Did I mention cell phones or any other communication devices aren't allowed into the datacenter? Your poor H&E guy ends up running a marathon between his desk and the troubled server, panting over the phone something like "on the screen it says something about missing something on some kernAL and then it reboots" and waits for your instructions...

All because the customer doesn't feel like forking out some extra cash to have a skilled local guy to come over and perform the update over a wired connection. The worst part is they will eventually have to do it, but running against the clock and losing some more money because of the unscheduled outage...
 

6thElement

Schrodinger's Immigrant
Jul 29, 2008
10,061
6,861
Dammit, my Ebikes borked.
Turned on the shimano etube app on the phone and it said the motor needed a firmware update.
So ok update it then...... Drops the bluetooth connection partway thru and then when it tried to reset it just got stuck into a loop and bricked the motor.
DOH!!

Handy tip, always do the updates by physically plugging the system into the computer not over the bluetooth app. :doh::oops:
Did you take a backup before you applied the update?


:D
 

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
3,879
2,434
Australia
Try to picture this: the customer has some outdated server, both on firmware and OS, and they insist on running it that way because they don't know if the new firmware and OS will do fine with the outdated custom application code they have been running for the last 10 years. Then, an external auditory rears it ugly head and they are forced to jump up 16 firmware versions in one big swath...
Try to guide a Hands & Eyes guy who barely tells a server from a switch apart from 16.000 km away into cold booting a server you tried to update over the network. Did I mention cell phones or any other communication devices aren't allowed into the datacenter? Your poor H&E guy ends up running a marathon between his desk and the troubled server, panting over the phone something like "on the screen it says something about missing something on some kernAL and then it reboots" and waits for your instructions...

All because the customer doesn't feel like forking out some extra cash to have a skilled local guy to come over and perform the update over a wired connection. The worst part is they will eventually have to do it, but running against the clock and losing some more money because of the unscheduled outage...
I have VMs running so many versions of Winblows because we have field hardware that is up to 34 years old and programmable only in some obscure software that only works in Windows XXX Service Pack blah. And laptops everywhere with stickers on them saying "do not fucken update or connect to Internet" just because they're the only things that connect to some critical infrastructure somewhere.

I'm pretty sure our cybersecurity is reliant on a combination of no hackers being old enough to recognise the software
and viruses having minimum system requirements that surpass the hardware specs we have in some sites.
 

DaveW

Space Monkey
Jul 2, 2001
9,588
1,227
Karori, Poneke Te Ika-a-Maui
Is there a way to default your motor? Whether it is a reset button or via removing all onboard power and grounding a PCB? You may be able to get it back into a salvageable state. Alternatively, contact the manufacturer and see if they'll share protocol for cold starting. I'd imagine they simply do an exchange service these days for the whole motor as most repairs are done this way now.
Heh I run a shop that's got 3 shimano trained tech's.... it's borked to the point we can't resurrect it and need shimano them selves to do it as we are locked out of the part that you need to get into to overwrite the bugger (only Shimano themselves are able to open this part of the firmware).
On Monday we'll try to hack in remotely via team viewer, if that's no joy it'll have to sit there until the 17th when one of Shimano's techs is down here from Auckland.
 

ianjenn

Turbo Monkey
Sep 12, 2006
2,885
625
SLO
Shimano's techs is down here from Auckland.

In Highschool, we used to get drunk on Friday nights and watch our friend rebuild his 2 stroke in under 30 minutes. They need to make the electrical stuff easy for the end-user....
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
46,241
11,804
Sleazattle
I have VMs running so many versions of Winblows because we have field hardware that is up to 34 years old and programmable only in some obscure software that only works in Windows XXX Service Pack blah. And laptops everywhere with stickers on them saying "do not fucken update or connect to Internet" just because they're the only things that connect to some critical infrastructure somewhere.

I'm pretty sure our cybersecurity is reliant on a combination of no hackers being old enough to recognise the software
and viruses having minimum system requirements that surpass the hardware specs we have in some sites.

At least you are not burning EEPROM chips anymore.
 

Flo33

Turbo Monkey
Mar 3, 2015
1,579
856
Styria
Heh I run a shop that's got 3 shimano trained tech's.... it's borked to the point we can't resurrect it and need shimano them selves to do it as we are locked out of the part that you need to get into to overwrite the bugger (only Shimano themselves are able to open this part of the firmware).
On Monday we'll try to hack in remotely via team viewer, if that's no joy it'll have to sit there until the 17th when one of Shimano's techs is down here from Auckland.
Hooray for closed source code.
 

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
3,879
2,434
Australia
it's borked to the point we can't resurrect it and need shimano them selves to do it as we are locked out of the part that you need to get into to overwrite the bugger (only Shimano themselves are able to open this part of the firmware).
Ah that blows. I guess they lock it up a bit to stop people playing with the restrictions or something but that kind of non-user repairability is frustrating. I imagine this sorta of problem usually only occurs on the eve of planned riding trips or major rides.
 

SylentK

Turbo Monkey
Feb 25, 2004
1,488
399
coloRADo
My buddy just got the new Scott eRansom. 630W battery. Said he did 7200 feet of climbing in eco mode before it ran out of juice. That's probably 8-9 laps in this place we call the LHOHV. That's pretty sweet!
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
46,241
11,804
Sleazattle
My dad died last year of cancer at 81. I'd say spend as much time as you can with him. It goes quick

I visited him last month, he was saying he would like to be able to ride his bike around the neighborhood, but can't get up the hills, so I told him about e-bikes.
 

canadmos

Cake Tease
May 29, 2011
14,683
12,145
Canaderp
I have VMs running so many versions of Winblows because we have field hardware that is up to 34 years old and programmable only in some obscure software that only works in Windows XXX Service Pack blah. And laptops everywhere with stickers on them saying "do not fucken update or connect to Internet" just because they're the only things that connect to some critical infrastructure somewhere.

I'm pretty sure our cybersecurity is reliant on a combination of no hackers being old enough to recognise the software
and viruses having minimum system requirements that surpass the hardware specs we have in some sites.
Damn I feel for you. I work in IT at a few automotive factories - some of the machines controls and logic boards were custom made back in the 90s. I treat those old laptops and computers running win 95 and God knows what else like covid, keep it the hell away and out of my office. :D

The best is when something dies or gets fried on a machine built over two decades ago, by a company that no longer exists, the people who built it have literally died and yet the show must go on, because of the lifetime of the contract for these random service parts from the customers (Ford, GM etc etc...).

:banghead: I'm pretty new to (willingly) helping out the maintenance teams with stuff, but so far Siemens seems to be the stuff that makes me want to throw things.
 

Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
3,857
2,131
UK
i'm just here to mock bike owners who are physically able to ride a bike but can't because hardware and software and shit. HAAAAAAA HAAAAAAAAAAAAA.
Yeah. Coz absolutely no one on this forum ever managed to ride a 50lb bike with no motor.
 

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
3,879
2,434
Australia
The best is when something dies or gets fried on a machine built over two decades ago, by a company that no longer exists, the people who built it have literally died and yet the show must go on, because of the lifetime of the contract for these random service parts from the customers
Ironically, the more critical things are - the less likely they are to be cutting edge gear. The largest drinking water treatment plants in the city running on 1985 Honeywell 620 PLCs, while small rural plants are getting brand spanking Siemens 1518 processors etc. I'd understand using smaller facilities as a test bed for new hardware if the plan was to eventually roll it out, but I think leaving processors from the 80's in place is mental. Literally no one supplies spares for them anymore and there's one or two old gurus around who can repair them. The boards are so old and brittle I get nervous installing replacements when we have to touch them.

As a user of Siemens automation software I have to say that throwing things is a rather restrained response.
Relatively new to Siemens after mostly using Rockwell stuff in the past and really not a fan. I swear all these companies used to make good solid stuff and have evolved into baffling, finicky junk designed to save system integrators 15 minutes while totally fucking over the day-to-day support guys.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
46,241
11,804
Sleazattle
Relatively new to Siemens after mostly using Rockwell stuff in the past and really not a fan. I swear all these companies used to make good solid stuff and have evolved into baffling, finicky junk designed to save system integrators 15 minutes while totally fucking over the day-to-day support guys.
I started off with Fanuc and Rockwell stuff. Relatively simple, intuitive and well documented. As a former systems integrator I can say that Siemens do them no favors other than extracting more money from end users who spec them. We actually estimated Siemens projects at +25% engineering hours over the same project with Rockwell and at a higher rate because we needed to send people to Siemens training vs primarily OJT for the other platforms. No Siemens platform was ever cost competitive, but they have a done a good job marketing to end users and are really the only company that has well integrated PLC/CNC and robotic offerings.

Now I am on the end user side of things and spend a lot of effort trying to convince people that we shouldn't be trying to use the 'powerful siemens' features. On my last project we ended up with a system with 9 PLCs driving 33 servo axis synchronously. Yeah, Siemens had a powerful feature set that allowed us to do it, but it is as buggy as hell and maybe works half the time with no rhyme or reason as to why.
 

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
3,879
2,434
Australia
I'd be willing to bet the last people in line for e-bikes, Fox Live valve and electronic shifting and droppers will be the people who have to work with electronics for a living :nerd:

*edit* not a reflection on the tech - more just trying to separate work/play
 

slimshady

¡Mira, una ardilla!
I'd be willing to bet the last people in line for e-bikes, Fox Live valve and electronic shifting and droppers will be the people who have to work with electronics for a living :nerd:

*edit* not a reflection on the tech - more just trying to separate work/play
It still surprises me how we haven't seen any AXS hacks/mods out in the wild. Reverse engineering the communication protocol shouldn't be that hard, and it would open a nice market niche. Maybe the work/play separation you speak of has something to do with it...

I'm thinking of a servo driven, wireless actuated gearbox or other crazy stuff.
 
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toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
3,879
2,434
Australia
I'm thinking of a servo driven, wireless actuated gearbox or other crazy stuff.
I'm surprised E bikes didn't bring in gearboxes actually but until electronic shifting became the norm they might have been limited. I imagine in a few years thats where things will be. Electronic shifting does rectify the push-pull shifter hurdle that necessitated Gripshift on the older gearbox designs.
 

6thElement

Schrodinger's Immigrant
Jul 29, 2008
10,061
6,861
I'm surprised E bikes didn't bring in gearboxes actually but until electronic shifting became the norm they might have been limited. I imagine in a few years thats where things will be. Electronic shifting does rectify the push-pull shifter hurdle that necessitated Gripshift on the older gearbox designs.
"Can't ride, my battery is flat and my gearbox needs an oil change"
 

DaveW

Space Monkey
Jul 2, 2001
9,588
1,227
Karori, Poneke Te Ika-a-Maui
I'm surprised E bikes didn't bring in gearboxes actually but until electronic shifting became the norm they might have been limited. I imagine in a few years thats where things will be. Electronic shifting does rectify the push-pull shifter hurdle that necessitated Gripshift on the older gearbox designs.

When Pinion sort this the Zerode's will be amazing.
 

vivisectxi

Monkey
Jan 14, 2021
139
129
yeast van
pretty sure this is the inevitable future of ebike tech. makes so much sense.

also - the new pinion form factor is a smart move; use of a standard sram shifter & (purported) ability to downshift under load could go a long ways to driving higher gearbox acceptance - and take a good chunk of pinion's oem sales.