Only if you are a royal. But when you are, you can roam through other people's bedrooms, too.
BOOOOOO E-BIKES
- Thread starter Gary
- Start date
I met that guy there a few years back. Caught him up on the climb riding my Capra. and then we kept passing each other all the way to the top. He'd pass me on the straights and I'd pass him back on the turns as he was taking all the longer smoother and shallower turns on the climbs while I took all the shorter steeper slightly technical turns. So I chatted to him most of the way up. He wears full body armour all the time (fair enough) and was telling me he used to head out to Morzine biking when he was younger.
Yeah. looks decent. a capable 40lb Emtb would be awesome and handle way closer a normal mtb.
I've hankered after a lightweight Fazua motored roadbike for a long time to commute on but they all tend to come with pretty small batteries so range isn't great and the UK's 15.5mph limit makes E-roadbikes pretty pointless except for climbs.
How is the reliability of the Fazua motors? I haven't heard much about them - at first glance the only MTB I found with one was the Trek e-XC.
I'm thinking of getting my first ebike next year, and the Relay is definitely interesting. In terms of power / battery it seems to split the difference between light weight / full power, but is closer to the light weight end of the spectrum. I'm undecided on whether I want a light one or a full power. The one guy I know who's got a light one swears that's what I should do, but he also still complains his is too heavy. The guys I know with full power say that's what I should get in order to do either really long backcountry days, maximum number of turbo laps in 1 hour (my main use case), or riding with other full power ebikes (most users).
My trail bike weighs something like 35 lbs anyways so a 40 lb ebike wouldn't feel much heavier.
I'm thinking of getting my first ebike next year, and the Relay is definitely interesting. In terms of power / battery it seems to split the difference between light weight / full power, but is closer to the light weight end of the spectrum. I'm undecided on whether I want a light one or a full power. The one guy I know who's got a light one swears that's what I should do, but he also still complains his is too heavy. The guys I know with full power say that's what I should get in order to do either really long backcountry days, maximum number of turbo laps in 1 hour (my main use case), or riding with other full power ebikes (most users).
My trail bike weighs something like 35 lbs anyways so a 40 lb ebike wouldn't feel much heavier.
I wonder how much drag there is when you run them as a "normal" bike without the battery installed.
No less reliable than the three leading brands mid motors. 
The beauty of a lot of Fazua motor bikes (to me) is you can remove the entire motor and battery leaving you with a normal bike only about a kilo heavier than the equivalently spec'd normal bike.
That and a lighter more nimble/playful Ebike not really requiring so much assistance power in the first place.
I very rarely ever use boost at all on my Emtb and it has 36t x 11-36 gearing.
With more typical mtb gearing (eg. 34x 11-50) a Fazua would be slightly slower climbing but still be way less effort than a normal bike.
The beauty of a lot of Fazua motor bikes (to me) is you can remove the entire motor and battery leaving you with a normal bike only about a kilo heavier than the equivalently spec'd normal bike.
That and a lighter more nimble/playful Ebike not really requiring so much assistance power in the first place.
I very rarely ever use boost at all on my Emtb and it has 36t x 11-36 gearing.
With more typical mtb gearing (eg. 34x 11-50) a Fazua would be slightly slower climbing but still be way less effort than a normal bike.
None.
There's no drag with no battery in the Shimano, Bosch or Brose motors either.
folk think there is simply because they've forgetten how horrible pedalling a 50lb+ bike with DH tyres and low pressures actually is. but remove the chain and spin the cranks and they spin freely.
only with the current fazua system. with the new one the motor stays in the frame, only the battery is removable (if the bike is designed for it, there’s also a lighter, non removable version)
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theres always some drag as you pedal through the gearing…
there are also gears in a motor?
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Well that sounds like bollocks!
Every Shimano motor I've had has been pretty much free moving with no chain.
infact many wavy washer external BBs have more drag.
I've no idea who whoever you're getting your info from is or what motor you're talking about but if you were to place an allen bit in preload cap (mine are hex) and attach a torque wrench to it you wouldn't be able to get even the lowest torque setting to click.
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If we're going full Forest Gump with this, there aren't any drivetrains with absolutely no drag. But the negligable amount of drag found in the Emtb motors I have most experience riding certainly isn't enough to continue this pointless exchange.
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Parents sue Seattle-based e-bike company over daughter's death
The parents of a girl who died after an e-bike accident filed a wrongful death lawsuit Monday against the Seattle e-bike company Rad Power Bikes.
www.seattletimes.com
Awful for the family.
But is there no age related legislation for Ebikes in the US?
Here you need to be 14 to ride a class 1 pedalec. And to ride a class 2 Ebike capable of being powered without pedalling as the article descibed it requires a licence and insurance to be used in a public place. (ie can't legally be ridden by a minor)
But is there no age related legislation for Ebikes in the US?
Here you need to be 14 to ride a class 1 pedalec. And to ride a class 2 Ebike capable of being powered without pedalling as the article descibed it requires a licence and insurance to be used in a public place. (ie can't legally be ridden by a minor)
Where I see this could go is the mfr could be found negligent to prevent operation of their machine by means of not issuing a key or means that limits operation to the owner or their designee. Not saying I agree with it, but they might find some liability in this area, like how motorcycles and cars have keys. That's similar to how we have ridiculous lack of controls on things like guns. Flood the market with something like this without controls. Bad things will happen.Parents sue Seattle-based e-bike company over daughter's death
The parents of a girl who died after an e-bike accident filed a wrongful death lawsuit Monday against the Seattle e-bike company Rad Power Bikes.
Either that or we need to crack down on kid's mental health.
Where was the good guy with a moped?
(obviously the outcome in that story is terrible)
(obviously the outcome in that story is terrible)
Do I misunderstand this, or was the kid just a passenger on the bike? So who was the main rider? Isn't that person liable first? Kid had brain injuries but there is no mention of a helmet. My guess is they would have sued the helmet manufacturer as well if the kid would have worn one.
Maybe, if they thought they could prove some liability. Such as, helmet manufacturer claims to do A, B and C and it only did A and B. They probably do not leave that much liability obviously, but the "whatabout" is a helmet maker that could be fraudulently producing stuff, making stuff that has been misrepresented or not tested according to industry standards, etc.
Kid could be a passenger, but the circumstances of how the operator got to be the "operator" was all I was commenting on. Like if parents purchased bike and gave it to kid, 14, there might be significantly less liability here, since the person operating it was the intended operator. That may then fall back on the parents, since machine may say "don't operate if you are less than 18 years old". There may not be a lot of apparent "reasonableness" in litigation, but usually through the court proceedings that is what prevails, at least when you actually read the court documents and not the TV news story or what someone heard on the 'net. The shitty part is you can bring a civil case against anyone and they have to answer, the tort laws that exist in some states requiring the loser to pay all fees helps to minimize, yet it still sucks to have to fight something that may not have anything to do with you, let alone the states where you incur cost. They say this doesn't happen as much in Yurp...except, they generally have far more controls on everything in Yurp and you just don't get to these levels, like the relatively insane (compared to the US) requirements to purchase a gun or get a driver's license.
Not sure what that sad story has to do with ebikes at all.
I think the theory is something like “If they hadn’t of been on the ebike, they never would have been able to get to the top of that big hill”, or some such nonsense. Hell, they could have hitched a ride up there. They are just throwing spaghetti at the courtroom wall, if you will.
What I don't get is this:
"In the suit, Kaye and Jonathan Steinsapir, the parents of Molly Steinsapir, who died last year at age 12, claim flaws in the bike’s design made it difficult for riders to slow down and stop as the bike gained speed while going downhill.
The suit, filed in Los Angeles County Superior Court, also argues Rad Power Bikes engaged in “inappropriate marketing of e-bikes to children,” adding the company failed to “adequately warn about the dangers of children operating e-bikes.”"
"Molly was a passenger on a RadRunner bike, made by Rad Power, when she had her accident. On page 49 of the 57-page owner’s manual for the model, a warning says that “the RadRunner is designed for use by persons 18 years old and older.""
Soooo, who was operating the bike? Clearly not Molly.
"In the suit, Kaye and Jonathan Steinsapir, the parents of Molly Steinsapir, who died last year at age 12, claim flaws in the bike’s design made it difficult for riders to slow down and stop as the bike gained speed while going downhill.
The suit, filed in Los Angeles County Superior Court, also argues Rad Power Bikes engaged in “inappropriate marketing of e-bikes to children,” adding the company failed to “adequately warn about the dangers of children operating e-bikes.”"
"Molly was a passenger on a RadRunner bike, made by Rad Power, when she had her accident. On page 49 of the 57-page owner’s manual for the model, a warning says that “the RadRunner is designed for use by persons 18 years old and older.""
Soooo, who was operating the bike? Clearly not Molly.
I think "passenger" might just mean a runaway bike.. Ie. A bike rolling fast down hill. that the child couldn't slow down.
It's pretty badly written.
The lack of warning of danger is ridiculous. And why we have stupid warning stickers on bike frames. Hot food and drinks.
It's pretty badly written.
The lack of warning of danger is ridiculous. And why we have stupid warning stickers on bike frames. Hot food and drinks.
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Molly and an 11-year-old friend climbed aboard a RadRunner e-bike that belonged to the friend’s 13-year-old sister, the lawsuit says. The friend was operating the bike as Molly rode atop a flat rack over its back wheel, a feature that “invites a passenger to sit in tandem,” according to the complaint.
The two girls, who were wearing helmets, rode to the top of a hill that they most likely would not have been able to climb without the bike’s electric boost, the lawsuit says. After the friend turned the bike around to head back down the hill, the bike “began to rapidly pick up speed, and it began shaking,” according to the complaint. The friend “applied the rear brake, but the bicycle did not slow. She then pulled the front brake, but the bike did not stop, and the front wheel began to wobble.” She lost control, and the girls were thrown. The lawsuit claims that the Rad Runner’s “disc brakes in conjunction with a quick-release mechanism for detaching the front wheel” is “a known safety hazard” in the bike industry.
Molly’s father, a lawyer, has represented the estate of Michael Jackson, among other entertainment industry clients. After his daughter’s death, Mr. Steinsapir wrote to Mr. Radenbaugh, telling him about his daughter and adding that he and his wife, also a lawyer, hoped to avoid litigation.
“We want to better understand what happened, why, and how future tragedies like this can be avoided,” Mr. Steinsapir wrote in the letter, which is included in the lawsuit. “We urge you to reach out to us and seek to have a human conversation and not a lawyerly one.” The lawsuit says that the company’s response to Mr. Steinsapir’s letter “was not productive.” The family has asked for damages in an amount to be determined by a jury.
In an interview, Molly’s parents said they felt obligated to try to make sure no other family would experience this kind of loss.
“No amount of money can bring back our daughter,” Ms. Steinsapir said. “But we can no longer sit silent.”
Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/01/style/team-molly-rad-power-bikes-lawsuit.html
The two girls, who were wearing helmets, rode to the top of a hill that they most likely would not have been able to climb without the bike’s electric boost, the lawsuit says. After the friend turned the bike around to head back down the hill, the bike “began to rapidly pick up speed, and it began shaking,” according to the complaint. The friend “applied the rear brake, but the bicycle did not slow. She then pulled the front brake, but the bike did not stop, and the front wheel began to wobble.” She lost control, and the girls were thrown. The lawsuit claims that the Rad Runner’s “disc brakes in conjunction with a quick-release mechanism for detaching the front wheel” is “a known safety hazard” in the bike industry.
Molly’s father, a lawyer, has represented the estate of Michael Jackson, among other entertainment industry clients. After his daughter’s death, Mr. Steinsapir wrote to Mr. Radenbaugh, telling him about his daughter and adding that he and his wife, also a lawyer, hoped to avoid litigation.
“We want to better understand what happened, why, and how future tragedies like this can be avoided,” Mr. Steinsapir wrote in the letter, which is included in the lawsuit. “We urge you to reach out to us and seek to have a human conversation and not a lawyerly one.” The lawsuit says that the company’s response to Mr. Steinsapir’s letter “was not productive.” The family has asked for damages in an amount to be determined by a jury.
In an interview, Molly’s parents said they felt obligated to try to make sure no other family would experience this kind of loss.
“No amount of money can bring back our daughter,” Ms. Steinsapir said. “But we can no longer sit silent.”
Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/01/style/team-molly-rad-power-bikes-lawsuit.html
Of course they also sued Giro. I knew it!
"Giro is named in the suit because the Steinsapirs say the helmet Molly was wearing was defective. The suit says the helmet was supposed to absorb the crash impact, but it cracked and did not protect her from the brain injury that ultimately killed her."
Source: https://www.bicycleretailer.com/industry-news/2022/08/02/rad-power-bikes-giro-face-wrongful-death-suit#.Yuo-wS0euqA
"Giro is named in the suit because the Steinsapirs say the helmet Molly was wearing was defective. The suit says the helmet was supposed to absorb the crash impact, but it cracked and did not protect her from the brain injury that ultimately killed her."
Source: https://www.bicycleretailer.com/industry-news/2022/08/02/rad-power-bikes-giro-face-wrongful-death-suit#.Yuo-wS0euqA
That right there stinks of extortion. We're just seeing the next steps unfold.
I guess the moar rational move would have been suing the 13-year old friend's parents, since the e-bike manual states it shouldn't be operated by under-18 people. But given the e-bike company just got a 300 million capital investment they just went for the big price.
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Or just accept that this was a freak incident that was partially caused by the lack of adult supervision of kids spoiled with toys that were not meant for their age.
You're absolutely right.
To be clear, I didn't meant they should have sued the friend's parents, I tried to highlight that since they were in a suing mood the lack of adult supervision was the biggest contributor to that terrible outcome.
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I blame video games.Parents sue Seattle-based e-bike company over daughter's death
The parents of a girl who died after an e-bike accident filed a wrongful death lawsuit Monday against the Seattle e-bike company Rad Power Bikes.
I blame the lack of church attendance and broken homes.