The upside is that it's pretty easy to convince them to self-destruct.
BOOOOOO E-BIKES
- Thread starter Gary
- Start date
The UCSC and Pacifica trails are not legitimate trail systems. Who am I to say e-bikes shouldn't ride there if the whole area is illegal trails that no one is supposed to be on?
The Soquel Demonstration Forest is managed by Cal Fire and access to MTB’s is granted with significant restrictions. The right to build the flow trail in SDSF, was fought for, obtained, funded, built by and for MTB use and not e-Bikes, motorcycles, segways etc. It was not designed or built for the kind of use and traffic it would get if e-Bikes were allowed, it's hard to get to and that keeps the numbers of people on the trails down. The people who built and maintain the Demo trails don't want e-bikes around and have included it in the SDSF rules, that should be enough. If you want to ride Demo but think it's too hard to pedal out there then don't ride the trail or step up your training game.
Maybe I'm crazy for actually enjoying a challenge and not needing to be spoon fed everything. When I go out rock climbing I understand that there are climbs that I'm not strong enough, or skilled enough, or fit enough to complete. I don't throw a fit and expect it to be made easier so I can do it. I don't show up the next time with a batarang and a winch to get myself to the top then claim that I did it the same as everyone else who got up without the winch (It was a "climb assist" winch so it only helped a bit lol). Some things I will never be able to accomplish. I can live with that.
E-bikes are here to stay but there's gonna be a lot more NO E-BIKES signs around, I've already seen proof of that. Many of the places mountain bikers ride are restricted for motorized travel. I like it that way. If I'm riding the OHV area in Georgetown then I don't give a shit about e-bikes, the trails are dirt bike trails.
Like I keep saying, you're fooling yourself if you strap a motor to your bike and still think you're mountain biking.
You do talk some shit.
No one I've ever heard of on an ebike is throwing a fit or claiming they're achieving the climbs the same way folk without one are. The whole point of having the motor is to either climb faster or use less effort in doing so.
I've had mine over a year now and in 1800 miles I haven't actually climbed anything at all on it that I hadn't already climbed on a regular bike. It just allows me to climb the same terrain fast without having to use the same effort and spending less time and energy on the bits I've always liked less to get to the parts I like most.
Who's the fool again?
No one I've ever heard of on an ebike is throwing a fit or claiming they're achieving the climbs the same way folk without one are. The whole point of having the motor is to either climb faster or use less effort in doing so.
I've had mine over a year now and in 1800 miles I haven't actually climbed anything at all on it that I hadn't already climbed on a regular bike. It just allows me to climb the same terrain fast without having to use the same effort and spending less time and energy on the bits I've always liked less to get to the parts I like most.
Who's the fool again?
If you think the YT Decoy that I just ordered today bears any resemblance to my old YZ450f, then you need to go experience a Moto.
Please, tell me more about how I need to learn how to pedal.specifically for people who have the testicular fortitude to pedal..... You my friend are why e-bikers and e-bikes suck. I hope I see you on the trail so I can heckle you. Just get a moped and ride demo on that you fucking pussy
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I think the weight thing is overblown. I used to ride 45 pound downhill bikes all day. Plus I figure if you can pin a 250lb Moto on technical MTB-like single track a 50lb ebike should be no problem. My cardio is pretty off the charts these days (see my other post) so that helps a SHITLOAD when it comes to staying active and aggressive on the bike I've found.
The WB is slightly shorter than my current Megatrail, so I don't see any issue there. I'm 6'7"
Yeah, me too. infact I used to think 47-49lb was acceptable. My Emtb is just under 48.
they're quite a bit different to ride TBF.
All I meant was don't go overly long. At your height that's probably not even going to be an issue.
I'm a mere 5'11" and recently rode a large Mondraker RR (forward geometry) and honestly couldn't believe how awful it was to play around on it was over 2" longer in reach than my bike and 4" longer wheelbase and 13lb heavier. The Mondraker had pretty much the same travel as mine but a coil shock. The combination of all these things meant getting the thing onto the rear wheel and up to the balance point to manual it was a lower back breaker and nigh on impossible. L the size Mondraker recommend for a rider of my height.
Thing is an absolute beast to plow on though.
As for the Decoy I'd forget all about any comparisons to a 250lb Moto too TBH.. Although the fact you ride Moto is probably going to mean you transition to the extra weight of the Emtb super quickly. I was riding a tiny bit of Moto when I got mine and I'd say it took me two weeks solid riding to properly tune into the (slightly) different handling of an Emtb over my almost exactly the same travel/Geometry Capra. Unless YT royally fuck something up (the only thing that worries me slightly is compatability issues with YT's custom battery) You're gonna love it BTW
Ya The long WB definitely isn't ideal on some trails. The one jump trail around here has some steep-ish hairpin switch backs where the 50+ WB is a bit of a handicap for sure, but I've gotten used to it. But all the super steep, straight-ish trails at UCSC it's probably a benefit.
Sweet. I'm pumped. I just "sold" the Moto yesterday (and bought the YT). So I'm looking forward to getting back into DH-style riding more after kinda backing off the last 2-3 years.
They're both two wheeled motorized vehicles. Obviously your new moped isn't the same as a dirt bike but they should both stick to trails that are for motorized vehicles.
I stand by my statement that if you are riding Demo on an e-bike you're a dick and contributing to the reason people don't like e-bikers. If you are such a beast on the climbs why do you need an e-bike any way?
And yet, your main complaint is less about legal use than it is about whether e-bikers are "real" mountain bikers. You're entitled to your opinion but I guess I don't really see your logic. And I'd be careful about using legality to justify your definition of mountain biking - particularly in the Bay Area.
Do you ever shuttle or ride a chairlift? I'm guessing you ride in Downieville sometimes, true? When you get a ride to Packer Saddle, are you less of a mountain biker than when you pedal up in Demo?
What's with the labels?
No, my main complaint about e-bikes is people taking them where all the other trail users are non-motorized, places where motorized vehicles and conveyances are banned.
My secondary argument (and the one that makes e-bikers far more butt hurt) is that if you strap a motor on something you aren't doing the same sport as you were sans motor. If I developed some sort of electric assist for the high jump, do you think the folks with electric legs doing half the work would be accepted as high jumpers? There's literally a whole category of sports called "Motor Sports" that encompass situations where power is coming from a motor and not a human. If that isn't the case then why isn't dirt biking on trails the same sport as mountain biking? I assume you're going to say the motor power makes the difference but old dirt bikes had shitty little motors and they were still considered motor bikes. What percent of the power has to come from the human vs motor before it's considered a motor-sport?
My tertiary argument is that E-bikes suck
I'm not saying it's not fun. E-bikes are fun, dirt bikes are fun, I could probably enjoy riding a moped, but they're not mountain biking.
Labels are useful. For example, is RM a mountain biking forum or a pile of oranges? It's a mountain biking forum, good thing I didn't mistake it for oranges!
I'll break this down for you:
- bikes with skinny tires and ultra light frames, designed to use on streets (no motors) = road bikes
- bikes with slightly knobby tires and durable frames but no suspension, designed for mixed road and dirt/gravel (no motors) = CX or gravel bikes
- bikes with knobby tires and strong frames, designed for off road use (no motors) = mountain bikes
- bikes with little electric motors that some people pretend are the same as non-motorized bikes = e-bikes
- bikes with big loud gas motors, designed for off road = dirt bikes
Can you take a gravel bike on mtb trails? yes
Can you take an e-bike on mtb trails? yes
Can you take a dirt bike on mtb trais? yes
does that make them mountain bikes? no
re: shuttles and lifts. i can’t remember the last time i shuttled; if you’re at a dedicated bike park, everyone’s using lifts, no one’s pedaling back up. i think those are apples to oranges comparisons.
in the end, legality aside, to each their own i guess. for me, personally, i think it’s stupid, a waste of resources for more battery parts, electricity to charge, etc., and simply not what i want to do at 45 or what i see myself doing when 65. but what do i know - hell, i’m also the jackass who’s ridden some form of a 34#, 6”-7” travel monstrosity as my “one” bike for over a decade, half the time on local trails where most people rock xc rigs.
in the end, legality aside, to each their own i guess. for me, personally, i think it’s stupid, a waste of resources for more battery parts, electricity to charge, etc., and simply not what i want to do at 45 or what i see myself doing when 65. but what do i know - hell, i’m also the jackass who’s ridden some form of a 34#, 6”-7” travel monstrosity as my “one” bike for over a decade, half the time on local trails where most people rock xc rigs.
Ok, I think I've got it now: Mountain bikes with electric motors are not the same as mountain bikes without electric motors, and people who have fun on those bikes need to find another name for what they're doing.
I nominate "Rockofullering". Has a nice ring to it and pays homage to the mighty gate keeper of what is allowed to be called mountain biking.
Love,
OG
If you drive your car to the trail head you're the same as a dirt bike....
Fucking e-bike apologists, drinking all the koolaid
Ding ding ding!!!
Aight
Just keep your fucking rockofullering bikes off the non motorized trails.
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Man, I can't imagine how boring life would be if I were so obsessed with following the rules some bureaucrat who couldn't get a real job made up 20 years ago about what was allowed on a dirt path in the middle of nowhere. Yeeesh.
I can't tell if you're trolling, or for real?
You realize this is a DOWNHILL forum right? If I need to explain to you why I want to get more descending in, with less effort... SMH.
I can't tell if you're trolling, or for real?
Gaining and maintaining access to lands for trails is a challenge at best. Land owners make the rules and trail users follow the rules. If people don't respect the rules they are wrecking access and everyone loses. If you don't like the rules then work to change them.
E bikes have their place but they are enough different from normal mountain bikes that they warrant separate management strategies. Where is the line? There's a guy riding my trails on a Specialized with custom 1500 watt motor and a throttle. Talks about riding in the mud and cutting corners. It seems the majority of the e bike crowd aren't actually dedicated mountain bikers, but some other class of cyclist that is missing the boat on trail/mtb standard operating procedure.
E bikes have their place but they are enough different from normal mountain bikes that they warrant separate management strategies. Where is the line? There's a guy riding my trails on a Specialized with custom 1500 watt motor and a throttle. Talks about riding in the mud and cutting corners. It seems the majority of the e bike crowd aren't actually dedicated mountain bikers, but some other class of cyclist that is missing the boat on trail/mtb standard operating procedure.
so you keep sayingMy tertiary argument is that E-bikes suck
I'm not saying it's not fun. E-bikes are fun, dirt bikes are fun, I could probably enjoy riding a moped, but they're not mountain biking.
They haven't sucked for a couple of years now and are only getting better but don't let that fact get in the way of you throwing your toys out the pram about them at every opportunity.
Ive no idea whaere or what "Demo" is and definitely won't ever be riding there. Sounds like it's full of dicks.
As for your rule bound name-autism
it's called an "E-bike", "E-mtb" or "E-mountainbike" and the physical pursuit is referred to as "E-biking", "E-mtbing" or E-mountainbiking"
All my professionally diagnosed aspergers/ASD friends can cope with these terms.
why can't you?
gary, this is our way of shunning you and your e-lifestyle. if i was closer to your bog i'd pin a scarlet "e" on you.so you keep saying
They haven't sucked for a couple of years now and are only getting better but don't let that fact get in the way of you throwing your toys out the pram about them at every opportunity.
Ive no idea whaere or what "Demo" is and definitely won't ever be riding there. Sounds like it's full of dicks.
As for your rule bound name-autism
it's called an "E-bike", "E-mtb" or "E-mountainbike" and the physical pursuit is referred to as "E-biking", "E-mtbing" or E-mountainbiking"
All my professionally diagnosed aspergers/ASD friends can cope with these terms.
why can't you?
Right, if only we stop riding E-bikes then Pacifica, UCSC, Marin and Mt. Tam will finally become legal trail networks after all these decades of ambitious mountain bikers spending god knows how much time and money unsuccessfully trying to improve trail access.
That dude is a jerk. He probably would be a jerk off said e-bike, too.
I can't speak to the Cali politics, but here in the Front Range Class 1 e-bikes like my Pivot Shuttle are 100% legal on JeffCo Open Space and Colorado State Parks trails. So I ride them, act courteously to other trail users as I would on a non-e bike, and go on with my life all the richer, having had more downhill for a given riding time.
is the battery in your chest like iron man?I don't actually have an Ebike...
But Shhhhh......
Nah in my (UK) pants...is the battery in your chest like iron man?
That's why I'm always so friendly, helpful and cheery bespite living in a wet peat bog on a diet of IrnBru and haggis
ok... maybe it's actually the beer
With 1lb of Columbian Bam Bam in his pack he is the party.......
Right? Almost every park/open space/forest I ride my bike in has strict rules about where motor vehicles are allowed (usually just in the parking lot and paved roads). Even in the National Forest you have to be on trails designated for motor vehicles/OHV trails.
Unfortunately many of these places don't have a rule governing e-bikes yet so for some reason e-bikers take that as an ok to ride. Luckily more and more parks are treating them like other motor vehicles and restricting them to paved areas or OHV trails.
I strongly agree with those statements.
Both. It's fun to rile up the e-bike crowd and maybe make them realize that riding trails meant for non-motorized recreation on their motorized bikes isn't actually as cool as they think it is.
Cause e-bikes suck lol
Really it's because I constantly see e-bikes on trails that don't allow motorized recreation, and somehow their users have inceptioned themselves to believe that their e-bike isn't motorized recreation because "pedal assist". Sorry guys, it still has a motor.
Cali trail politics are all fucked up. E-bikes will not help.
I appreciate that you ride on trails that allow e-bikes. Out of curiosity, are there any other motorized user groups on those trails?
Come hit me up at Sea Otter. Camping Area H, I'll show you how to party, we'll see how long you can hang
I do not sniff the coke. But I bring the high quality cali fire to the party every time.
Yes Garry, we know.
And I can appreciate that Cali is a more complicated place.
No, these trails are bike/"bike"/hike/horse only. One delicious segment is designated two wheels, downhill direction only as of last year, too. Wheeee!
i lived in cali before and can confirm, trail politics is a g-d clusterfuck. and this was a decade before e-bikes.
and for all you e-bike fans eschewing whatever benefits you think they have, if you think for a *second* that bike companies are making them because they're awesome and not because they're trying to boost sales, i'd like to point you to exhibit A: https://www.bicycleretailer.com/studies-reports/2019/04/01/wholesale-bike-sales-down-sharply-year-date-everything-e-bikes#.XKT9uJhKiM8
I don't care why they make them--being profitable to do so is kind of assumed anyway. I just appreciate that they exist, work pretty well, and are legal out here. That's good enough for me.
So.... non-motorized users except e-bikes? Kinda weird how that works.....
You see what I'm getting at?
dude no offense but if anyone could benefit from the extra workout from 100% human powered bicycle workout here its you. that is, unless you plan on giving up your drunken noodle and kare pan habits
Yes, they lumped in class 1 e-bikes with regular bikes. And that's fine with me.
If I had unlimited time and tolerance for pain then yes, I should be climbing every mountain under my own power. (I should also bike to work every day.) As it is I can break away from the family for a few hours here and there. An e-bike is a much better use of my time given that I don't enjoy grinding up climbs but do greatly enjoy bombing downhill.dude no offense but if anyone could benefit from the extra workout from 100% human powered bicycle workout here its you. that is, unless you plan on giving up your drunken noodle and kare pan habits
trust me i get it, i have 2 kids myself. and i know full well i'm not that far off from you in terms of overall fitness. i just like giving you a hard time about your battery bike.
I know. And if you actually had mountains out where you are you should get one for yourself. But as it is, you can entertain yourself by switching wheel sizes then continuing to not ride. You and stoney can form a not-riding club.trust me i get it, i have 2 kids myself. and i know full well i'm not that far off from you in terms of overall fitness. i just like giving you a hard time about your battery bike.
haha. i was just thinking, the longest climb on any of the trails within like an hour of me is maaaaaaaaybe 400' vertical.I know. And if you actually had mountains out where you are you should get one for yourself. But as it is, you can entertain yourself by switching wheel sizes then continuing to not ride. You and stoney can form a not-riding club.
not riding? i'm over 500 miles* since the beginning of the year.
*maybe 20 of these weren't on the stationary trainer
are you a NEW customer of the bicycle industry?
Road bikes and pointless carbon GAINZ shit that goes along with them were the big suction machine milking the middle aged cycle enthusiasts wallet a few years ago.
aint nuffin new to see here bro
And that's why e-bikes suck. Bunch of out of shape dentists out there riding the non-motorized trails on their motorized bikes going "that's fine with me!!"