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Discussion in 'Downhill & Freeride' started by Gary, Oct 26, 2018.
that's exactly my point. e-bikes are just the latest fad.
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Change wheel sizes and standards and geometry and materials all you like but strapping a motor on a bike isn't a fad it's a fundamental change in the sport.
Then you'll realise DH and Freeride was once that fad too.
but but but ... rock-a-bike sounds so rad
ah hahaha haaaahha aha a ahahahaha
are you one of those downhill "Athletes" I sometimes hear folk referring to?
Get real... you just ride a bike in the woods and hills for fun like the rest of us.
I realize you speak haggis and not English so I'll explain what a sport is.
DH a fad? What forum are you posting in again?
I'm confused AF now.
Are you butt hurt about the cost of the bikes?
or that out of shape people are being outside where you go?
The first one is just odd. my Emtb cost less in 2018 than my Ironhorse Sunday did in 2007 and the Ebike had a higher level of componentry.
The second should sort itself out. If you're really riding places where unfit people couldn't get to without a motor assisted bike those same people are unlikely to strong or fit enough to be able to ride the descents either.
I get that you're peeved at your stupid land access rules being broken and the trails being in jepardy because of it. But it's the fucking stupid rules you should be pissed at. Not Ebikes
Dunno. But when I scroll down keep seeing a button marked "tools" and expect to find you in there if I click it.
When DH/Freeride/hucking was the New New shiny shiny in the industry the industry saw a huge turn oiver from new new shiny shiny shit. No?
No different to roadie pish or Ebikes
Unless your an old shredder with bad knees I have no sympathy for mtb riders who go full e tard. Just a bunch of mental garbage. Maybe see a counselor about your percieved inadequacies regarding physical fitness. I bet e bikers disproportionately pop viagra and drive in the car pool lane.
Whats funny is most of the guys I know that are buying ebikes race either DH or Enduro at a VERY high level and want the bike so they can get more runs in. They are not dentists, nor are they out of shape slubs. In fact some of them can ( and do) race Expert XC as well. E-Bikes are just another bike in the quiver- no more no less.....
I don't have a crystal ball but my sense is that e-bikes will prove to be more than a passing fad.
I've explained it multiple times. I'll assume your drunk and give it one more shot.
The biggest problem I have with e-bikes is that they ride their motorized bicycles on trails that are for non motorized recreation.
I have no problem with the trail rules (other than the confusing places that allow horses on the trail but not bikes, wtf). There are too many trail users and not enough trail in many places here. Restricting how you can and can't go certain places is part of the equation if you want to preserve nature. I understand that you've already wrecked your little island but I like the woods here. I like the 2000 year old redwoods that managed to avoid logging, I enjoy the pristine meadows that haven't been run over with dirt bikes and jeeps. If you just let everyone do whatever they want that stuff eventually gets ruined and no one gets to enjoy it.
I never knew two simple words could fool so many otherwise logical and reasonable people.
Despite the motor on my bicycle I refuse to consider it motorized because "pedal assist"
Here's an important question. Do mountain bikes have motors?
I bet if I had asked this question on this very forum a few years back everyone would have agreed that no, mountain bikes do not have motors, nor should they. I would wager that even if I proposed shitty motors that aren't super strong and only help when you're pedaling the response would have been the same, mountain bikes don't have motors. I have a feeling even Toshi would have agreed before he was bamboozled by "pedal assist".
I know one or two guys like that. The rest of the e-bikers I see out on the trails are fat and or lazy. These days when I roll up to the trailhead and there is a big group and there's that one fat guy, it's about 50/50 that the one fat guy is on an e-bike.
Fingers crossed, but laziness is not a fad.
I do find it encouraging that the young rippers are not ripping on e-bikes.
How is that even a problem? You know there are No trails here at all that a mtb is allowed to ride that a class 1 Ebike isn't? and there are very very few places here I'm not allowed to ride an mtb at all?
so what's the reason you have for wanting restrictions to stop Ebikes riding the trails you ride?
Now that really IS funny
Your geographical ignorance is outstanding.
so how does an Emtb "ruin" anything any more than a normal mountainbike?
and how does you riding around on entirely your own effort preserve any nature?
I've said this before. but if the emtbs available today had been available 25 years ago when I first found DH despite being much younger, leaner and fitter I'd have bought one in a heartbeat.
I must have spent 1000s of hours pushing 42-48lb DH bikes uphill in the first few years of owning one alone. then once I got into racing hundreds of hours queuing for uplift vehicles.
We currently have 2 chairlifts in my country that access DH one track each and hundreds of world class downhill trails. back then we had none.
You do realise the internet spans the globe, eh?
BTW. regarding dentists. My last vitus (170mm) emtb (XT, Lyrik, SDeluxe, GuideRE, Nukeproof, dropper etc) cost less in 2018 than a 140mm travel GT LTS DH with a 100mm elastomer sprung DHO fork, v-brakes, XT/AC drivetrain and a shock that spat it's seals every few months did back in 1997.
I just ordered a new 2019 vitus for the same price with even better spec.
Have you been to America™?
Learn to history bud. Almost every inch of your island has been at one time or another cleared of natural forest for agriculture/grazing, or logged for timber/charcoal. Even the few bits of ancient forest that survived are small and isolated making it difficult for them to support biodiversity. Most of the forests considered "ancient" in Scotland have been affected at one time or another by human activity.
Please explain my ignorance and how you goofballs over there know how to utilize the environment without destroying it. I consider it awesome that we have more restrictive rules in our natural places.
Maybe my problem is that at the end of the day I'm not a "mountain biker". I'm a person who loves the outdoors. I could be out climbing, hiking, camping, skiing, and I'd be having fun. I respect and enjoy the wilderness and want it to be there for your illegitimate children and their illegitimate children as well.
It gets more lazy fat asses deeper into the woods so they can leave beer cans and trash around. Normally after a few miles there are very few people, and the people who have the dedication to make it that far are, for the most part, the type who respect the outdoors enough not to fuck it up. You ever notice how the amount of trash you see (personally I pick up a few pieces of it every time I'm out) decreases rapidly as you get further from the trailhead? I and many other people go out into nature to get away from civilization not to be surrounded by all the old dudes who can afford an e-bike and their GU wrappers.
At what point do we just pave it all over so that every rascal scooter driving blob of flesh can get out to wherever their enlarged hearts desire? Do you want an escalator to the top of Ben Nevis so every punter straight out the bars in Fort Williams can get to the top?
That's what I'm saying. Lethargy and consumerism is a way of life here, e-bikes are perfect for us, so it makes me worry that there will just be more and more of them. Along with that will be more of a push to allow rascal-bikes everywhere, cause "it's too hard without my mobility bike!!"
Take a proper look before talking utter bollocks mate.
Yes many forests are farmed. Many are planted with trees not native to the country for that reason alone.
a lot of land is agricultural. and various areas were mined.
But actually look at the amount of land in my country that isn't before spouting pish.
This just doesn't happen.
WTAF are you talking about?
the DH WC track at Ft William is 95% machine/man made.
There's already a lift.
Fort william town is nowhere fucking near the Nevis range.
Your obsession with this is borderline mental.
I only started this thread as a laugh after you commented I should start a thread called "BOOOOO E-BIKES".
I didn't think it would drive you insane.
get well dude
I invite you to learn about the history of your country. Most of the forested land in Scotland was fucked at one time or another. It's the facts. Sure some has grown back since the worst times of the Industrial Revolution and the World Wars but they'll never be the same as they were. Here's a link to start with if you're actually interested in getting educated.
Have a drink and unwind your britches fella. Just cause someone doesn't agree with a drunk Scotsman doesn't make them insane. And if you're getting flustered over this I apologize. I'll stop antagonizing you. Just ask nicely
Ummm...I think every company ever only introduces new products to boost sales? I don't think anyone believes that Specialized is sitting around saying "Let's make e-bikes to lower sales!"
LOL are you high?
I meant take an actual look. at the land.
Not google some figures and brief history covering a relatively small period in history.
It's fairly obvious you've never visited Scotland.
i'm not wound up man. bewildered would be a better description.
Good link, but it kinda makes Garys point, they have become better stewards of the land.
"The Forestry Commission set to work in Scotland over the next 40 years to create a home timber supply. In 1900, only about 5% of Scotland’s land area was wooded. By the early 21st century, large-scale afforestation had increased this figure to about 17%."
Not to mention if it werent for Scottish management we likely wouldn't have Atlantic Salmon.
I feel like if the US was the size of Scotland, we would have destroyed the nature long ago. Good thing we are large enough we cant fuck ourselves completely.
Nah man. Guy from Cali with a keyboard who's never set foot in a Scottish forest knows best .
The internet is the place to gain experience and knowledge on such matters. Google is TRUTH. Everyone knows this.
FWIW. no matter how drunk I was I wouldn't dream of commenting on the state of the land in a small portion of Cali. Nevermind an entire country I've never been to.
Brayton seems to get it...
nah man its just a sign that capitalism is starting to push the industry in directions well outside core cycling disciplines. having to sustain continued growth is gonna lead to "innovations" where in the product is a solution looking for a problem, and that problem is "how do we make sure our profits grow another 3-5% this year?" and that's led us to a point where bike companies are using healthy servings of marketing shtick to try to sell us whack ass mopeds.
There was a local here used to ride for Yeti on the JR program. He would do laps on his DH bike that where about 12-15 miles and 2200' of climbing and do this a few times a week. Pedal the whole fucking way. I can do this on a trail bike but avoid the 2 death sentence trails he would ride during these sessions. After hearing this it became apparent I would never be a Pro..
Also @Gary if you guys have all that land access call yourselves lucky. I live in California and here City Councils close trails to bikes at the drop of the hat. 5 angry old birds that shouldn't be hiking make some crazy claim about trail conflict, bikes are banned.
TBF that isn't all that much
I have quite often gone out with my GF for a trail ride and out of laziness taken the Ebike rather than go and get something else. We ride roughly that sort of distance with slightly more climbing/descending (easier trails though). and I leave the Ebike switched off the entire ride to even us up. at 48lb it's heavier than any Pros DH bike.
Yeah. I know how lucky we are in Scotland. Which is why rocko's whining about trail access while blindly following and backing stupid rules made by non bikers himself rather than advocating for changing those rules baffles me.
I just rode my first e bike. It was a commuter made by Giant. They make perfect sense on paved roads. They shouldn't be a fad for getting around town.
The e-mtb koolaid however tastes bitter and I won't be drinking it.
You haven't ridden one, though.
all i know is that someone needs to be thanked. i'm hooked on this thread like old ladies and their soap operas. this one will live forever in RM infamy...
now lahar needs to come back with an e-bike
I don't need to ride one. This isn't a new handling characteristic or suspension system. It's a motor that takes some of the effort out of pedaling. Big deal. Last time I checked, making pedaling easier via motors wasn't on the desired characteristics list for my next bicycle.
Obviously I don't know which handling characteristics you do desire.
But please be aware that 15lb lump of metal, plastic and lithium-ion mounted right in the middle around the BB of a mid drive class 1 E-mtb does actually bring with it new handling characteristics. A vast improvement in stability and suspension performance are two of the improved handling characteristics to come from it. I'm not for a minute suggesting there aren't also negative characteristics from it too. Everything has a balance of desirable and less desirable traits.