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BOOOOOO E-BIKES

jonKranked

Press Button, Receive Stupid
Nov 10, 2005
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are you a NEW customer of the bicycle industry?

Road bikes and pointless carbon GAINZ shit that goes along with them were the big suction machine milking the middle aged cycle enthusiasts wallet a few years ago.
aint nuffin new to see here bro
that's exactly my point. e-bikes are just the latest fad.
 

Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
3,068
1,149
UK
ah hahaha haaaahha aha a ahahahaha


"Sport"

are you one of those downhill "Athletes" I sometimes hear folk referring to?

Get real... you just ride a bike in the woods and hills for fun like the rest of us.
 

rockofullr

confused
Jun 11, 2009
7,356
916
East Bay, Cali
I realize you speak haggis and not English so I'll explain what a sport is.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/sport
sport

noun
1. an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.
2. a particular form of this, especially in the out of doors.
 

Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
3,068
1,149
UK
And that's why e-bikes suck. Bunch of out of shape dentists out there riding the non-motorized trails on their motorized bikes going "that's fine with me!!"
I'm confused AF now.
Are you butt hurt about the cost of the bikes?
or that out of shape people are being outside where you go?

The first one is just odd. my Emtb cost less in 2018 than my Ironhorse Sunday did in 2007 and the Ebike had a higher level of componentry.
The second should sort itself out. If you're really riding places where unfit people couldn't get to without a motor assisted bike those same people are unlikely to strong or fit enough to be able to ride the descents either.

I get that you're peeved at your stupid land access rules being broken and the trails being in jepardy because of it. But it's the fucking stupid rules you should be pissed at. Not Ebikes
 

Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
3,068
1,149
UK
DH a fad? What forum are you posting in again?
Dunno. But when I scroll down keep seeing a button marked "tools" and expect to find you in there if I click it.

When DH/Freeride/hucking was the New New shiny shiny in the industry the industry saw a huge turn oiver from new new shiny shiny shit. No?
No different to roadie pish or Ebikes
 

boostindoubles

Nacho Libre
Mar 16, 2004
4,437
2,038
Yakistan
Unless your an old shredder with bad knees I have no sympathy for mtb riders who go full e tard. Just a bunch of mental garbage. Maybe see a counselor about your percieved inadequacies regarding physical fitness. I bet e bikers disproportionately pop viagra and drive in the car pool lane.
 

mdc

Monkey
Jul 8, 2006
243
15
Uxbridge
Whats funny is most of the guys I know that are buying ebikes race either DH or Enduro at a VERY high level and want the bike so they can get more runs in. They are not dentists, nor are they out of shape slubs. In fact some of them can ( and do) race Expert XC as well. E-Bikes are just another bike in the quiver- no more no less.....
 

rockofullr

confused
Jun 11, 2009
7,356
916
East Bay, Cali
I'm confused AF now
I've explained it multiple times. I'll assume your drunk and give it one more shot.

The biggest problem I have with e-bikes is that they ride their motorized bicycles on trails that are for non motorized recreation.

I get that you're peeved at your stupid land access rules being broken and the trails being in jepardy because of it. But it's the fucking stupid rules you should be pissed at. Not Ebikes
I have no problem with the trail rules (other than the confusing places that allow horses on the trail but not bikes, wtf). There are too many trail users and not enough trail in many places here. Restricting how you can and can't go certain places is part of the equation if you want to preserve nature. I understand that you've already wrecked your little island but I like the woods here. I like the 2000 year old redwoods that managed to avoid logging, I enjoy the pristine meadows that haven't been run over with dirt bikes and jeeps. If you just let everyone do whatever they want that stuff eventually gets ruined and no one gets to enjoy it.

"pedal assist"
I never knew two simple words could fool so many otherwise logical and reasonable people.
Despite the motor on my bicycle I refuse to consider it motorized because "pedal assist" :bonk:

Here's an important question. Do mountain bikes have motors?

I bet if I had asked this question on this very forum a few years back everyone would have agreed that no, mountain bikes do not have motors, nor should they. I would wager that even if I proposed shitty motors that aren't super strong and only help when you're pedaling the response would have been the same, mountain bikes don't have motors. I have a feeling even Toshi would have agreed before he was bamboozled by "pedal assist".

Whats funny is most of the guys I know that are buying ebikes race either DH or Enduro at a VERY high level and want the bike so they can get more runs in.
I know one or two guys like that. The rest of the e-bikers I see out on the trails are fat and or lazy. These days when I roll up to the trailhead and there is a big group and there's that one fat guy, it's about 50/50 that the one fat guy is on an e-bike.

my sense is that e-bikes will prove to be more than a passing fad
Fingers crossed, but laziness is not a fad.

I do find it encouraging that the young rippers are not ripping on e-bikes.
 

Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
3,068
1,149
UK
The biggest problem I have with e-bikes is that they ride their motorized bicycles on trails that are for non motorized recreation.
How is that even a problem? You know there are No trails here at all that a mtb is allowed to ride that a class 1 Ebike isn't? and there are very very few places here I'm not allowed to ride an mtb at all?
I have no problem with the trail rules (other than the confusing places that allow horses on the trail but not bikes, wtf). There are too many trail users and not enough trail in many places here. Restricting how you can and can't go certain places is part of the equation if you want to preserve nature.
so what's the reason you have for wanting restrictions to stop Ebikes riding the trails you ride?
I understand that you've already wrecked your little island but I like the woods here.
Now that really IS funny :rofl:
Your geographical ignorance is outstanding. :clapping:
If you just let everyone do whatever they want that stuff eventually gets ruined and no one gets to enjoy it.
so how does an Emtb "ruin" anything any more than a normal mountainbike?
and how does you riding around on entirely your own effort preserve any nature?
 

Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
3,068
1,149
UK
I bet if I had asked this question on this very forum a few years back everyone would have agreed that no, mountain bikes do not have motors, nor should they. I would wager that even if I proposed shitty motors that aren't super strong and only help when you're pedaling the response would have been the same, mountain bikes don't have motors. I have a feeling even Toshi would have agreed before he was bamboozled by "pedal assist".
I've said this before. but if the emtbs available today had been available 25 years ago when I first found DH despite being much younger, leaner and fitter I'd have bought one in a heartbeat.
I must have spent 1000s of hours pushing 42-48lb DH bikes uphill in the first few years of owning one alone. then once I got into racing hundreds of hours queuing for uplift vehicles.
We currently have 2 chairlifts in my country that access DH one track each and hundreds of world class downhill trails. back then we had none.

You do realise the internet spans the globe, eh?

BTW. regarding dentists. My last vitus (170mm) emtb (XT, Lyrik, SDeluxe, GuideRE, Nukeproof, dropper etc) cost less in 2018 than a 140mm travel GT LTS DH with a 100mm elastomer sprung DHO fork, v-brakes, XT/AC drivetrain and a shock that spat it's seals every few months did back in 1997.
I just ordered a new 2019 vitus for the same price with even better spec.
 
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rockofullr

confused
Jun 11, 2009
7,356
916
East Bay, Cali
Now that really IS funny :rofl:
Your geographical ignorance is outstanding. :clapping:
Learn to history bud. Almost every inch of your island has been at one time or another cleared of natural forest for agriculture/grazing, or logged for timber/charcoal. Even the few bits of ancient forest that survived are small and isolated making it difficult for them to support biodiversity. Most of the forests considered "ancient" in Scotland have been affected at one time or another by human activity.

Please explain my ignorance and how you goofballs over there know how to utilize the environment without destroying it. I consider it awesome that we have more restrictive rules in our natural places.

Maybe my problem is that at the end of the day I'm not a "mountain biker". I'm a person who loves the outdoors. I could be out climbing, hiking, camping, skiing, and I'd be having fun. I respect and enjoy the wilderness and want it to be there for your illegitimate children and their illegitimate children as well.

so how does an Emtb "ruin" anything any more than a normal mountainbike?
It gets more lazy fat asses deeper into the woods so they can leave beer cans and trash around. Normally after a few miles there are very few people, and the people who have the dedication to make it that far are, for the most part, the type who respect the outdoors enough not to fuck it up. You ever notice how the amount of trash you see (personally I pick up a few pieces of it every time I'm out) decreases rapidly as you get further from the trailhead? I and many other people go out into nature to get away from civilization not to be surrounded by all the old dudes who can afford an e-bike and their GU wrappers.

At what point do we just pave it all over so that every rascal scooter driving blob of flesh can get out to wherever their enlarged hearts desire? Do you want an escalator to the top of Ben Nevis so every punter straight out the bars in Fort Williams can get to the top?

Have you been to America™?
That's what I'm saying. Lethargy and consumerism is a way of life here, e-bikes are perfect for us, so it makes me worry that there will just be more and more of them. Along with that will be more of a push to allow rascal-bikes everywhere, cause "it's too hard without my mobility bike!!"
 

jonKranked

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Nov 10, 2005
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That's what I'm saying. Lethargy and consumerism is a way of life here, e-bikes are perfect for us, so it makes me worry that there will just be more and more of them. Along with that will be more of a push to allow rascal-bikes everywhere, cause "it's too hard without my mobility bike!!"
paved_trails.jpg
 

Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
3,068
1,149
UK
Learn to history bud. Almost every inch of your island has been at one time or another cleared of natural forest for agriculture/grazing, or logged for timber/charcoal.
Take a proper look before talking utter bollocks mate.
Yes many forests are farmed. Many are planted with trees not native to the country for that reason alone.
a lot of land is agricultural. and various areas were mined.
But actually look at the amount of land in my country that isn't before spouting pish.
 

Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
3,068
1,149
UK
It gets more lazy fat asses deeper into the woods so they can leave beer cans and trash around.
seriously STFU
This just doesn't happen.
At what point do we just pave it all over so that every rascal scooter driving blob of flesh can get out to wherever their enlarged hearts desire? Do you want an escalator to the top of Ben Nevis so every punter straight out the bars in Fort Williams can get to the top?
WTAF are you talking about?

the DH WC track at Ft William is 95% machine/man made.
There's already a lift.
Fort william town is nowhere fucking near the Nevis range.

Your obsession with this is borderline mental.

I only started this thread as a laugh after you commented I should start a thread called "BOOOOO E-BIKES".
I didn't think it would drive you insane.

get well dude
 

rockofullr

confused
Jun 11, 2009
7,356
916
East Bay, Cali
Take a proper look before talking utter bollocks mate.
I invite you to learn about the history of your country. Most of the forested land in Scotland was fucked at one time or another. It's the facts. Sure some has grown back since the worst times of the Industrial Revolution and the World Wars but they'll never be the same as they were. Here's a link to start with if you're actually interested in getting educated.

https://www.nature.scot/professional-advice/land-and-sea-management/managing-land/forests-and-woodlands/history-scotlands-woodlands

After the retreat of the ice some 11,000 years ago, Britain was colonized first by boreal species and later by more temperate vegetation. Birch was the first dominant tree, followed by hazel, pine and oak. Woodland cover around 5,000 years ago reached Shetland and the Western Isles.

Woodland cover then began to decline, largely due to early agriculture. By the time the Roman legions of Agricola invaded Scotland in AD 82, at least half of our natural woodland had gone. Much of it was replaced by peatland, partly as a result of the cooler, wetter climate and partly because of human activities.

In the 17th and 18th centuries, many of the remaining woods were heavily exploited for timber, charcoal and tanbark. But this probably also secured their continued existence.

By the 19th century, interest in native woods was in decline. By 1900, woodland covered only about 5% of Scotland’s land area, as many small and isolated blocks. This led to the loss of species requiring larger, unbroken blocks of native woodland – especially larger mammals and predators.
seriously STFU
WTAF are you talking about?
Your obsession with this is borderline mental.
get well dude
Have a drink and unwind your britches fella. Just cause someone doesn't agree with a drunk Scotsman doesn't make them insane. And if you're getting flustered over this I apologize. I'll stop antagonizing you. Just ask nicely :D
 

gemini2k

Turbo Monkey
Jul 31, 2005
3,526
115
San Francisco
if you think for a *second* that bike companies are making them because they're awesome and not because they're trying to boost sales, i'd like to point you to exhibit A: https://www.bicycleretailer.com/studies-reports/2019/04/01/wholesale-bike-sales-down-sharply-year-date-everything-e-bikes#.XKT9uJhKiM8
Ummm...I think every company ever only introduces new products to boost sales? I don't think anyone believes that Specialized is sitting around saying "Let's make e-bikes to lower sales!"

LOL are you high?
 

Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
3,068
1,149
UK
I meant take an actual look. at the land.

Not google some figures and brief history covering a relatively small period in history.

It's fairly obvious you've never visited Scotland.

i'm not wound up man. bewildered would be a better description.
 

velocipedist

Monkey
Jul 11, 2006
377
502
Cloudland Georgia
Good link, but it kinda makes Garys point, they have become better stewards of the land.

"The Forestry Commission set to work in Scotland over the next 40 years to create a home timber supply. In 1900, only about 5% of Scotland’s land area was wooded. By the early 21st century, large-scale afforestation had increased this figure to about 17%."

Not to mention if it werent for Scottish management we likely wouldn't have Atlantic Salmon.

I feel like if the US was the size of Scotland, we would have destroyed the nature long ago. Good thing we are large enough we cant fuck ourselves completely.


I invite you to learn about the history of your country. Most of the forested land in Scotland was fucked at one time or another. It's the facts. Sure some has grown back since the worst times of the Industrial Revolution and the World Wars but they'll never be the same as they were. Here's a link to start with if you're actually interested in getting educated.

https://www.nature.scot/professional-advice/land-and-sea-management/managing-land/forests-and-woodlands/history-scotlands-woodlands








Have a drink and unwind your britches fella. Just cause someone doesn't agree with a drunk Scotsman doesn't make them insane. And if you're getting flustered over this I apologize. I'll stop antagonizing you. Just ask nicely :D
 

Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
3,068
1,149
UK
Nah man. Guy from Cali with a keyboard who's never set foot in a Scottish forest knows best .
The internet is the place to gain experience and knowledge on such matters. Google is TRUTH. Everyone knows this.

FWIW. no matter how drunk I was I wouldn't dream of commenting on the state of the land in a small portion of Cali. Nevermind an entire country I've never been to.
 

jonKranked

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Nov 10, 2005
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Ummm...I think every company ever only introduces new products to boost sales? I don't think anyone believes that Specialized is sitting around saying "Let's make e-bikes to lower sales!"

LOL are you high?
nah man its just a sign that capitalism is starting to push the industry in directions well outside core cycling disciplines. having to sustain continued growth is gonna lead to "innovations" where in the product is a solution looking for a problem, and that problem is "how do we make sure our profits grow another 3-5% this year?" and that's led us to a point where bike companies are using healthy servings of marketing shtick to try to sell us whack ass mopeds.
 

ianjenn

Turbo Monkey
Sep 12, 2006
2,601
360
SLO
I've said this before. but if the emtbs available today had been available 25 years ago when I first found DH despite being much younger, leaner and fitter I'd have bought one in a heartbeat.
I must have spent 1000s of hours pushing 42-48lb DH bikes uphill in the first few years of owning one alone. /QUOTE]
 

ianjenn

Turbo Monkey
Sep 12, 2006
2,601
360
SLO
There was a local here used to ride for Yeti on the JR program. He would do laps on his DH bike that where about 12-15 miles and 2200' of climbing and do this a few times a week. Pedal the whole fucking way. I can do this on a trail bike but avoid the 2 death sentence trails he would ride during these sessions. After hearing this it became apparent I would never be a Pro..

Also @Gary if you guys have all that land access call yourselves lucky. I live in California and here City Councils close trails to bikes at the drop of the hat. 5 angry old birds that shouldn't be hiking make some crazy claim about trail conflict, bikes are banned.
 
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Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
3,068
1,149
UK
There was a local here used to ride for Yeti on the JR program. He would do laps on his DH bike that where about 12-15 miles and 2200'
TBF that isn't all that much

I have quite often gone out with my GF for a trail ride and out of laziness taken the Ebike rather than go and get something else. We ride roughly that sort of distance with slightly more climbing/descending (easier trails though). and I leave the Ebike switched off the entire ride to even us up. at 48lb it's heavier than any Pros DH bike.

Yeah. I know how lucky we are in Scotland. Which is why rocko's whining about trail access while blindly following and backing stupid rules made by non bikers himself rather than advocating for changing those rules baffles me.
 
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boostindoubles

Nacho Libre
Mar 16, 2004
4,437
2,038
Yakistan
I just rode my first e bike. It was a commuter made by Giant. They make perfect sense on paved roads. They shouldn't be a fad for getting around town.

The e-mtb koolaid however tastes bitter and I won't be drinking it.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
28,937
2,817
I just rode my first e bike. It was a commuter made by Giant. They make perfect sense on paved roads. They shouldn't be a fad for getting around town.

The e-mtb koolaid however tastes bitter and I won't be drinking it.
You haven't ridden one, though.
 

boostindoubles

Nacho Libre
Mar 16, 2004
4,437
2,038
Yakistan
You haven't ridden one, though.
I don't need to ride one. This isn't a new handling characteristic or suspension system. It's a motor that takes some of the effort out of pedaling. Big deal. Last time I checked, making pedaling easier via motors wasn't on the desired characteristics list for my next bicycle.
 

Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
3,068
1,149
UK
Obviously I don't know which handling characteristics you do desire.
But please be aware that 15lb lump of metal, plastic and lithium-ion mounted right in the middle around the BB of a mid drive class 1 E-mtb does actually bring with it new handling characteristics. A vast improvement in stability and suspension performance are two of the improved handling characteristics to come from it. I'm not for a minute suggesting there aren't also negative characteristics from it too. Everything has a balance of desirable and less desirable traits.