[bullcrew]

Going to grab one and see what the chasis feels like, the air set up and charger 3 damper ...have to take top cap off anywase to machine a cap for ohlins ttx18 cartridge and may do one for the air cart as well...so worst case is it is awesome best case is it's awesome ..

Actually being as I've rode a ton of Boxxers 32mm+ I am curious to the feel, turning radius and deflection...

Seems rockshox has stepped up game this year, they like to take their time and then release some pretty decent setups...but it's been a minute since a major change...

 

[Gary]

Are they readily available already in the US? My mate got a call from the UK dist yesterday morning and pre-ordered his but it won't arrive until August.

 

[6thElement]

Seems like a pointless change unless it rides like a magic carpet. I briefly read the PB preview, a chunk heavier than the current 35mm and they had to spend a bunch of time making sure it wasn't too stiff...

 

[bullcrew]

No

Are they readily available already in the US? My mate got a call from the UK dist yesterday morning and pre-ordered his but it won't arrive until August.

I think distribution hasn't started I called rockshox today and there's a little wait to ship..got cost on one and some questions answered...
They have em in stock...pretty excited to try it...

 

[bullcrew]

Seems like a pointless change unless it rides like a magic carpet. I briefly read the PB preview, a chunk heavier than the current 35mm and they had to spend a bunch of time making sure it wasn't too stiff...

That's what's got me curious, they have relied on deflection for years to get hand jerking hits to be somewhat soaked up as well as bushings and stanchions to align keeping it smoother under twist no mechanical damping for the most part...

I want to know if they got the chasis to be compliant and a bit more small bump due to a more column load positive chasis...if they did them they should have hit a decent spot...

 

[Jm_]

Finally, an air spring that rides like a coil























I make a funny!

 

[bullcrew]

Already got a backup damper for it lol..

 

[buckoW]

I like the new Boxxer. It’s pretty easy to find good settings and rides nice. I’d say it even feels creamy. Nice fork!

 

[bullcrew]

I like the new Boxxer. It’s pretty easy to find good settings and rides nice. I’d say it even feels creamy. Nice fork!

View attachment 197507

Of course lol...

 

[sethimus]

I like the new Boxxer. It’s pretty easy to find good settings and rides nice. I’d say it even feels creamy. Nice fork!

View attachment 197507

better connected than the mafia

 

[bullcrew]

So @buckoW what's your take on the new air cart and damper , obviously chasis stiffness?
I want to try it as a package and then swap it to ohlins(air/cart) and use the Boxxer chasis...

What do you think of the stiffness versus the 35mm?

 

[DaveW]

better connected than the mafia

He IS the mafia.... The Bike Mafia!

 

[buckoW]

So @buckoW what's your take on the new air cart and damper , obviously chasis stiffness?
I want to try it as a package and then swap it to ohlins(air/cart) and use the Boxxer chasis...

What do you think of the stiffness versus the 35mm?

Feels buttery. I don’t have any criticisms so far.
I haven’t ridden an old Boxxer in a few years and I like the Fox 40 so I’m probably not the right guy to talk about chassis stiffness. It’s similar to an Ohlins DH38. It feels very comfortable and predictable. Compression and rebound adjusters have a nice range. I think it’s a nice feeling fork!

 

[Inclag]

Already got a backup damper for it lol..View attachment 197505

Aren't you a suspension tuner?

 

[Happymtb.fr]

My 35mm boxxer is now totally obsolete and unridable

 

[Redwood Mulch Chucker]

Wonder what size the air piston is? They call it a "twintube" so I assume it's small like the 38 where they have a piston from a 34 inside a tube and jam the whole assembly in the leg.
14mm air spring shaft es muy grande.

What pressure you running @buckoW ?

 

[Redwood Mulch Chucker]

I will say RS has been crushing Fox in the bushing/stanchion fit category lately.

Seen waaay more fit issues with Fox, even with their floating axle design.

 

[bullcrew]

I will say RS has been crushing Fox in the bushing/stanchion fit category lately.

Seen waaay more fit issues with Fox, even with their floating axle design.

Fox 38 is a nightmare, I have pulled 3 year old well ridden fox off bikes to service and burnish...air side is STIFF as hell..front to back gets worn sides DO not ..all the forks I burnish and do fox leads by miles on tight bushings...and the bullshit they wear in is just that 90% is front to back load so that will push down a smidge side to side will take forever and give bad braking bump and berm kickback

 

[buckoW]

Wonder what size the air piston is? They call it a "twintube" so I assume it's small like the 38 where they have a piston from a 34 inside a tube and jam the whole assembly in the leg.
14mm air spring shaft es muy grande.

What pressure you running @buckoW ?

175psi and I’m 80kg

 

[Redwood Mulch Chucker]

Holy tiny piston and massive negative air volume Batman!

That makes Ohlins DH38 pressures seem minimal.

 

[two-one]

175psi and I’m 80kg

That'll take quite a while to inflate, big tube at high pressure.

 

[Gary]

 

[Redwood Mulch Chucker]

Better that the releases posted on all the forums.

BoXXer Development - SRAM

BoXXer Development

www.sram.com

Big ol' bottom out bumper!

 

[konastab01]

Finally, an air spring that rides like a coil























I make a funny!

Wonder if it blows up easy like previous versions.

 

[Happymtb.fr]

some pictures of the internals here
Video: Tearing Apart the New 2023 Rockshox Boxxer Ultimate Downhill Fork - Pinkbike

I didn't watch the full video but it starts with something about the buttercups doing a HUGE difference...!

 

[Gary]

They dropped dual air because 9/10 riders didn't understood how to set it up?
From my experience 9/10 riders don't understand how tokens work.
I see a patern Rockshox.

 

[Redwood Mulch Chucker]

It's always a good business practice to cater to the morons of the world.

 

[Westy]

It's always a good business practice to cater to the morons of the world.

I dislike this practice. I have purchased a several very cheap used bikes and forks because the previous owners hated their terrible setups.

 

[Udi]

I found the 35mm boxxer to deflect/rebound significantly more in rutted lines compared to the 40, could never go back.
38-40mm makes sense for a modern DH fork. Goes where you point it and needs less correction.

I didn't watch the full video but it starts with something about the buttercups doing a HUGE difference...!

Sounded interesting until I read the PB article where they provide an overlaid graph with/without buttercups on two different dampers (?!). Good to see SRAM's marketing BS is still as strong as ever. Sounds like Fox is no better with new bushing issues.

 

[Redwood Mulch Chucker]

That PB video is great, really shows how SRAM is catering to people who know nothing about suspension or how to set it up.

Tearing Apart the New 2023 Rockshox Boxxer Ultimate Downhill Fork

Henry stopped by the SRAM race pits for an in depth look at the internals and backstory of the new Boxxer, courtesy of Rockshox's Product Manager Jon Cancellier and Chief Design Engineer Tim Lynch.

cdn.jwplayer.com

Product Manager; "We have this great new air spring that is super linear, people don't know how to use volume spacers so you don't need them anymore......we added a huuuuge 30mm bottom out bumper to the air spring to make it more progressive at the end of stroke" Multiple air chambers and volume spacers are too hard for people to understand.


The design engineer seemed to be convinced that every high speed compression circuit in a fork damper needs to use a preloaded shim stack and that people did not understand how to use LSC and HSC adjustments. The Charger 3 adds an adjustable flow restrictor in front of the shim stack and LSC bypass and this somehow makes everything better. But there is still no way to separate LSC and HSC circuits. If you crank LSC all the way shut, more oil flow is forced through the HSC shim stack instead of bypassing it. Seems like LSC still effects HSC to me...

Anyway, LSC is supposed to effect HSC, they are married and old-school Catholic, so divorce is not an option.
If you need to adjust HSC, do it with changing the shim stack, not by preloading the shims already in there.

 

[Westy]

That PB video is great, really shows how SRAM is catering to people who know nothing about suspension or how to set it up.

Tearing Apart the New 2023 Rockshox Boxxer Ultimate Downhill Fork

Henry stopped by the SRAM race pits for an in depth look at the internals and backstory of the new Boxxer, courtesy of Rockshox's Product Manager Jon Cancellier and Chief Design Engineer Tim Lynch.

cdn.jwplayer.com

Product Manager; "We have this great new air spring that is super linear, people don't know how to use volume spacers so you don't need them anymore......we added a huuuuge 2" bottom out bumper to the air spring to make it more progressive at the end of stroke" Multiple air chambers and volume spacers are too hard for people to understand.


The design engineer seemed to be convinced that every high speed compression circuit in a fork damper needs to use a preloaded shim stack and that people did not understand how to use LSC and HSC adjustments. The Charger 3 adds an adjustable flow restrictor in front of the shim stack and LSC bypass and this somehow makes everything better. But there is still no way to separate LSC and HSC circuits. If you crank LSC all the way shut, more oil flow is forced through the HSC shim stack instead of bypassing it. Seems like LSC still effects HSC to me...

Anyway, LSC is supposed to effect HSC, they are married and old-school Catholic, so divorce is not an option.
If you need to adjust HSC, do it with changing the shim stack, not by preloading the shims already in there.

Do you think he is wrong that 90% of people don't know how to properly setup their suspensions?

You may not like the end results but catering to the 10% of knowleagable customers at the detriment to the rest is not a recipe for success.

 

[Gary]

Do you think he is wrong that 90% of people don't know how to properly setup their suspensions?

If anything year on year that figure is rising

 

[Westy]

If anything year on year that figure is rising

Probably true, but lets be honest, it takes a lot of experience to be able to translate how a bike feels to what the suspension needs to do differently and then figure out which combination of the 6 or more settings need to be changed.

 

[Gary]

Yeah. But apparently it's also easier for many to buy a new £2k fork instead of spending 5 minutes setting up their bar roll and brake lever reach/angle.

 

[Milleratio]

It seems that and this is my rookie thoughts:
its easy to buy a fork with all the possible adjustable settings and possibilities
it's relatively complicated to understand the full theory behind the suspension
it's quite hard to be really sure that the tune and settings are 100% best to riders own speed and skill.

Quite often the case is that it's not wise to sell what customer needs but what he or she wants to buy. Of course in bicycle scene you have to earn the better components by suffering otherwise you will be overbiked and bullied in internet for the rest of your life.

Btw why this dualcrown Zeb 38 is so exclusively priced?

 

[Mo(n)arch]

175psi and I’m 80kg

Reminds me of the good ol' BOS Idylle 26' which is by all means the best stock air sprung DH-fork I've ridden, by far.

Is there a connection between more linear spring curve, less friction and higher pressures together with lower volume pistons?

 

[Westy]

Reminds me of the good ol' BOS Idylle 26' which is by all means the best stock air sprung DH-fork I've ridden, by far.

Is there a connection between more linear spring curve, less friction and higher pressures together with lower volume pistons?

On its own it shouldn't make a difference but it does give the designers more ability to size the various chamber volumes to acheive the desired ramp rate. It is all about volume ratios and you are constrained by the available volume inside the fork leg, so in theory if you can make the swept volume of the positive pressure chamber smaller you have more room for other shit.

 

[Mo(n)arch]

On its own it shouldn't make a difference but it does give the designers more ability to size the various chamber volumes to acheive the desired ramp rate. It is all about volume ratios and you are constrained by the available volume inside the fork leg, so in theory if you can make the swept volume of the positive pressure chamber smaller you have more room for other shit.

Also the seal-surfaces should be smaller, due to smaller diameters, which "should" result to less friction.

 

[Leafy]

Also the seal-surfaces should be smaller, due to smaller diameters, which "should" result to less friction.

Depending on the seal design. U cup, T, and some other seal types increase their radial force with increasing pressure. Even normal round profile o-rings do to some extent.

I think the high speed adjuster they're doing on the charger 3 is better than pre-loading the shim stack and definitively better than just closing ports like the suntour PCS damper. The adjusters are sequential but the lsc needle still acts as a bypass for the shim stack.

Just looking at the damper curve without units on it I'm surprised people like it, unless they're always running the hsc closed.

The heavily digressive curve on the blue line just looks like something thats going to blow through travel on big hits. Not knowing how fast they ran the tests to I'm not sure if they let you close the hsc adjust enough to choke flow or not at real fork shaft speeds. I know the PCS will let you, because restackor will error out and tell me that the damper pressure hits infinity if I try and get a full plot with the HSC fully closed and the LSC in the middle. The yellow line is a pretty promising looking damper curve though. I'd bet based from what they deflected on in the pink bike video that the fastest factory riders are running a stiffer shim pack. So they can get something looking like the yellow line but probably with it all shifted up to the red/blue for the lower speed.

 

[Happymtb.fr]

Priceless: damping curves with units but no numbers