[vitox]

i just disassembled and reassembled this "new" boxxer to see whats inside and what to expect from it once installed.

not many surprises really, its the same as a 04 basically.

forgot to mention yesterday that the crowns are still 5mm allen on top and 4mm allen on the lower.



first a picture of stock oil level on the rebound side.
havent checked the manual but it looks like stock oil is 5 on both sides.

oil level on the compression side.

from top to bottom, ti spring setup for 03/04 boxxer, stock yellow spring from 03/04 boxxer, and stock 05 boxxer springs, note the silencers, the fact that spring rate is lower and that the overall spring lenght is pretty much the same despite the travel increase, i think weight has been saved here.

effective travel bottoming fork out with springs removed, 203mm

bottom of compression cartridge, no news

top of compression cartridge, no new. shaft diameter remains 19mm.

 

[vitox]

inside of stanchion, didnt measure but looks to be same thickness as before.

compression base valve, iirc then no major changes.

upper end of rebound cartridge
that star shaped piece is new, the valve looks a bit different too.

rebound base valve, looks to be the same as on the 04.

bushing overlap
getting critical
its 145mm or 5,75", the lower bushing is huge, probably over 3" tall.

thats about all i thought could be useful, i didnt go inside the cartridges but id be very surprised if there was anything new in there too.

 

[Acadian]

God stuff Vitox. That means if someone has many 04 spare bits, they will still be useful for the new 05 :Thumb:

 

[Incubus]

Nice work.

I'm not really surprised that there isn't much new going on inside.

 

[mack]

drilll that bitch out! or did they fix that yet?

 

[Acadian]

drilll that bitch out! or did they fix that yet?

nothing has to be drilled...

 

[LOOnatic]

Cool report Vitox.

Does it look like the 05 lowers will work on 03-04 models?

 

[Acadian]

Cool report Vitox.

Does it look like the 05 lowers will work on 03-04 models?

from what I hear they do! you would just need the new guts.

 

[vitox]

Cool report Vitox.

Does it look like the 05 lowers will work on 03-04 models?

they will but youd be giving up some bushing overlap unless you press the lower bushing further down and im not sure about if thats possible, i dont have the means to find out either so youd have to ask someone VERY well informed at sram to find that out.

otherwise i think the bushing issue could negate any stiffness benefit from the bigger arch.

 

[Acadian]

they will but youd be giving up some bushing overlap unless you press the lower bushing further down and im not sure about if thats possible, i dont have the means to find out either so youd have to ask someone VERY well informed at sram to find that out.

otherwise i think the bushing issue could negate any stiffness benefit from the bigger arch.

I think he's asking about 05 lowers with 04 tubes and not vice versa?

Although I've heard people using 2 lower bushing in pre 05 lowers to increase stiffness.

 

[Acadian]

Oh and Loo...if you were to use the 05 lowers you would also need to get the new crowns since the new boxxers are wider (I think - can you confirm Vitox?)

 

[LOOnatic]

I think he's asking about 05 lowers with 04 tubes and not vice versa?

Although I've heard people using 2 lower bushing in pre 05 lowers to increase stiffness.

Right!

 

[vitox]

I think he's asking about 05 lowers with 04 tubes and not vice versa?

Although I've heard people using 2 lower bushing in pre 05 lowers to increase stiffness.

yes, thats what i understood also.

thing is, since both the lowers and the stanchions are the same size on the 04 and 05, the extra travel comes from the stanchion being inserted less into the lower leg, this is what i mean with less bushing overlap.

so when loonatic puts an 04 fork into an 05 lower, the stanchion has a less wide interface with the lower leg than could be possible given that the lower bushing on the 05 leg sits 1" further up inside the lower leg.

was that somehow clear? im having a bit of a hard time understanding myself even...

double bushing in the pre 04 lowers sounds weird, i could understand double upper bushing but since the inside of the lowers is reamed conical, im not sure the extra bushing could do any good.

 

[Acadian]

double bushing in the pre 04 lowers sounds weird, i could understand double upper bushing but since the inside of the lowers is reamed conical, im not sure the extra bushing could do any good.

the extra bushing is place right above the current one (on the 04). I think I read about this once on TF Tuned's site? Never tried it tho since I never saw the need..

 

[LOOnatic]

yes, thats what i understood also.

thing is, since both the lowers and the stanchions are the same size on the 04 and 05, the extra travel comes from the stanchion being inserted less into the lower leg, this is what i mean with less bushing overlap.

so when loonatic puts an 04 fork into an 05 lower, the stanchion has a less wide interface with the lower leg than could be possible given that the lower bushing on the 05 leg sits 1" further up inside the lower leg.

was that somehow clear? im having a bit of a hard time understanding myself even...

double bushing in the pre 04 lowers sounds weird, i could understand double upper bushing but since the inside of the lowers is reamed conical, im not sure the extra bushing could do any good.

True,True.
RS does also make an 05 Boxxer that is a 7" fork and has the new style lowers.
Its the "Ride" model i think.The one with the travel reduction feature.
Just trying to freshen up my 03 team....

 

[vitox]

Oh and Loo...if you were to use the 05 lowers you would also need to get the new crowns since the new boxxers are wider (I think - can you confirm Vitox?)

nonono


i mustave not made myself understood yesterday (again).

the new and the old boxxers are totally compatible when it comes to external parts

but hey, a picture says more than a thousand words, right?

for the untrained :dancing: , thats an 03/04 crown and an 05 crown living happily together on the same fork.

 

[vitox]

True,True.
RS does also make an 05 Boxxer that is a 7" fork and has the new style lowers.
Its the "Ride" model i think.The one with the travel reduction feature.
Just trying to freshen up my 03 team....

yes the "ride" is 7" and you can reduce that by 45mm like all other uturn forks, but i dont think they have a different bushing separation, could be wrong though, if so, those would be the ticket for you.

its not that the bushig overlap is such a major issue but if you are changing from the other lowers (provided your current lowers arent damaged) for a supposed stiffness increase, the bushing separation is most definitely a factor in that call.

 

[Acadian]

ya a pic is worth a thousand words!! awesome....thanks. That means my Romic crown would work with the 05 Boxxer. Although I would like to use the new Boxxer one.

 

[ssaddict]

my favorite thing about the new crown, they finally got the tolerances right and you don't need a hammer to remove or install it!!!!

 

[ssaddict]

the extra bushing is place right above the current one (on the 04). I think I read about this once on TF Tuned's site? Never tried it tho since I never saw the need..

I need some new bushings and thought about just pressing in new ones on top the old. The guys in the service tent at the races told me not to, that it would effect oil flow.

I didn't have the heart to tell them that I run a Mojo Cart. and zero oil in the other side. Still haven't got around to it though, as i'm eyeing the new Fox 40.

 

[oly]

I thought they made the 05 wider too. Guess my romic crown will fit too.... although i should sell it with my fork since i sold off the old crown a while back.

 

[toodles]

Can you reduce the travel on the '05 Teams back to 7" and just run more negative travel?

I like the idea of the increased turning radius with the new crowns - I can see one of those forks or at least the '05 top crown making it's way onto my new DHR.

 

[vitox]

Can you reduce the travel on the '05 Teams back to 7" and just run more negative travel?

I like the idea of the increased turning radius with the new crowns - I can see one of those forks or at least the '05 top crown making it's way onto my new DHR.

yea sure, its a bit of a modding project but i cant see why it shouldnt work.

its not that easy though, you see, the new springs are pretty much the same length as the old ones, so if you add another negative spring in there, youd have to either cut or make new volume spacers to account for the lower spring-space after you increase the topout stack.
actually i think the easiest way would be to put volume spacers under the negative spring, that might work pretty much straight away. you cant use the stock ones though as they arent the same length on both sides.

 

[vitox]

my favorite thing about the new crown, they finally got the tolerances right and you don't need a hammer to remove or install it!!!!

you mean this 05 crown or the previous "new" crown, i personally havent had problems since the 02 crown (the one with 2 bolts at the steerer clamp and a separate backplate)

 

[vitox]

I need some new bushings and thought about just pressing in new ones on top the old. The guys in the service tent at the races told me not to, that it would effect oil flow.

well again that sounds like an additional upper bushing.

you see its just not physically possible to press a lower bushing in there without removing the upper bushing.

the oil flow thing i guess is because if you put an extra lower bushing in there (04 or prior) and also put two upper bushings (same on all models), you would be making one long bushing from top to bottom, this because the space between the lower and upper is the same or less than the combined stack of both bushings.

anyway i still think that two lower bushings is redundant, the uppermost of the two might stay in place but it wont do much for stiffness (not much extra drag either anyway) because the bushing seat in the lowers is conical, this means that the bushing gets compressed when you press it in, and THEN you get a bushing that supports the stanchion, this of course wont happen with the one you put on top of the original.

 

[Acadian]

The guys in the service tent at the races told me not to, that it would effect oil flow. .

hummm... guess it could? Never thought about that one...but I'm sure if you have any more questions about this subject you could always e-mail Tim Flooks at TF Tuned Shox and he'll be more than happy to answer any of your questions.

 

[ssaddict]

you mean this 05 crown or the previous "new" crown, i personally havent had problems since the 02 crown (the one with 2 bolts at the steerer clamp and a separate backplate)

the '05 with the tapered legs on top and the new crown, I was helping Lars at Durango and went to grab a hammer when the whole crown just slid off in my hands.

I'm still running '01 externals and and a BETD top crown. (rubber mallet required)

well again that sounds like an additional upper bushing.

you see its just not physically possible to press a lower bushing in there without removing the upper bushing.

the oil flow thing i guess is because if you put an extra lower bushing in there (04 or prior) and also put two upper bushings (same on all models), you would be making one long bushing from top to bottom, this because the space between the lower and upper is the same or less than the combined stack of both bushings.

anyway i still think that two lower bushings is redundant, the uppermost of the two might stay in place but it wont do much for stiffness (not much extra drag either anyway) because the bushing seat in the lowers is conical, this means that the bushing gets compressed when you press it in, and THEN you get a bushing that supports the stanchion, this of course wont happen with the one you put on top of the original.

That makes alot more sense, I wanted to try 2 upper bushings to help stop oil from pushing by. Probably won't do much though. Maybe I should stop being cheap and just pony up for some new forks.

I think i'm going to hold out for some new Fox 40's other wise I'll probably go for the World Cup 8" and some nice Ti springs.

 

[Acadian]

I think i'm going to hold out for some new Fox 40's.

did you get a chance to play with them at Interbike?

 

[ssaddict]

did you get a chance to play with them at Interbike?

Yeah, but I've ridden Melissa's (work's/preproduction what ever you want to call it) before, the new ones are almost 1lb lighter and feel even better. Reminds me of my old '00 Monster-T without all the weight.

The only thing that worrys me is the adjusters hanging off the bottom of the fork leg. But even out at Boulder City they seemed to be holding up pretty well, even with shop grom's riding them.

 

[Acadian]

Yeah, but I've ridden Melissa's (work's/preproduction what ever you want to call it) before, the new ones are almost 1lb lighter and feel even better. Reminds me of my old '00 Monster-T without all the weight.

The only thing that worrys me is the adjusters hanging off the bottom of the fork leg. But even out at Boulder City they seemed to be holding up pretty well, even with shop grom's riding them.

cool - I would also be interested in trying one out. But like you, that adjuster hanging at the bottom also worries me. You know how the Boxxer lowers have this little lip in front of both those bottom bolts? well they were literally grinded off from clipping rocks... Heck even one of my bolts was missing a few mm…

 

[LOOnatic]

cool - I would also be interested in trying one out. But like you, that adjuster hanging at the bottom also worries me. You know how the Boxxer lowers have this little lip in front of both those bottom bolts? well they were literally grinded off from clipping rocks... Heck even one of my bolts was missing a few mm…

I hear ya on that one. Same here.
I too am looking at the 40 but i really have to admit my disgust with that awfull fuscia type color(gay gray).

 

[ssaddict]

cool - I would also be interested in trying one out. But like you, that adjuster hanging at the bottom also worries me. You know how the Boxxer lowers have this little lip in front of both those bottom bolts? well they were literally grinded off from clipping rocks... Heck even one of my bolts was missing a few mm…

exactly, well the 40 is even wider, you should have seen the lowers of my Monster when I got rid of it. I had to take a file and a polishing wheel to it to make it look nice again.


Loo, I hear ya on that one. Its like they went out and bought out some paint company of their worst color that never sold.

 

[ender]

Thanks Vitox! Can't wait to figure out which frame I will put on an 05 WC

 

[Acadian]

Thanks Vitox! Can't wait to figure out which frame I will put on an 05 WC

have you sold your Giant?

 

[HRDTLBRO]

Back from the dead with a Boxxer question.-
After jumping some doubles that were constructed last weekend, the rebound on my '04 Race seems non-existant. The rebound had been fine, and set to where I like it, but after a few jumps, the fork felt like sh** on a pogo-stick. No super hard landings, or anything out of the ordinary. Adjusting the rebound does nothing, and i'm a bit confused as how it seemingly "blew-out." It tops out very fast and hard, as well. Do I just need to rebuild it? It had the correct amount of oil before it became a jumping jackflash, but I have yet to check it again. Thanks for the help!

 

[vitox]

Back from the dead with a Boxxer question.-
After jumping some doubles that were constructed last weekend, the rebound on my '04 Race seems non-existant. The rebound had been fine, and set to where I like it, but after a few jumps, the fork felt like sh** on a pogo-stick. No super hard landings, or anything out of the ordinary. Adjusting the rebound does nothing, and i'm a bit confused as how it seemingly "blew-out." It tops out very fast and hard, as well. Do I just need to rebuild it? It had the correct amount of oil before it became a jumping jackflash, but I have yet to check it again. Thanks for the help!

1000$ chilean says what happened was you bottomed out and the valve picked up a part of the bottom out bumper that now doesnt allow the valve to properly restrict oil flow.

take fork off crowns

undo rebout side lower bolt halfway then tap on it till rebound shaft breaks free from lower leg casing

remove rebound stanchion.

catch all oil

leave lower legs now go work on the stanchion

undo top cap

remove spring

catch all oil

slide rebound shaft all the way out thru stanchion top

catch all oil

inspect for possible rubber debris

with a snap ring plier, remove snap ring at bottom of stanchion

disassemble base valve, mind parts orientation and order

remove any rubber debris

assemble base valve

clean stanchion inside for any rubber debris

remove bottom out bumper from lower legs with a spoke or similar (youll be fine without it)

install rebound cart

install spring

install top cap

install stanchion in lower leg

tigthen bottom bolt

open top cap

pour oil back in

close top cap

clean up mess

 

[HRDTLBRO]

Gracias. No mojo cartridge flava for me, i'm poor. :angry: So just need to install a new bumper, eh? Thanks for the info!

 

[CBJ]

Can you use the new TI spring in the 04 Boxxer as they are the same size?

 

[vitox]

Can you use the new TI spring in the 04 Boxxer as they are the same size?

yes you can

its just a tiny bit longer than the 04 spring so without preload spacers it should work ok, or in a worst case scenario you would have to cut a bit off the volume spacers.

 

[dw]

That was sweet Victor!

Dave