[cali4niabiker]

I'm a donkey stuck smack in between two haystacks. I have two forks: '02 Shiver DC and a '03 Boxxer Race and I gotta dump one of 'em. Here's what I like about each fork:
Shiver Pros (P) & Cons (C)

• P - Awesome performance
• P - Adjustablility (vs. Boxxer Race)
• P - Burly & well built - DURABLE
• C - HEAVY
• C - Lack of aftermarket upgrades (ID by Stratos is the only one I heard of)
• C - Costly (could get two used Boxxers for 1 Shiver)

Boxxer Pros & Cons

• P - Light weight
• P - Cheap & abundant
• P - Availability & cost of aftermarket parts (e.g., mojo, blackbox, ID cartridge by Stratos, Romic)
• C - Looks kinda wimpy & "Taiwan typo" (durability questionable)
• C - Lack of adjustability - it feels like there are a bunch of bugs being squished around in the lowers.

Now that I've listed the pros and cons, could the Boxxer Race be tuned to perform in a similar matter to the Shiver? What performance boosts did y'all notice with the aftermarket upgrades (list the manufacturer and describe how it feels compared to Shiver, Dorado, Stratos S8, or similar high end inverted forks). Leave out the product bashing since I am going to keep my opinions/experiences with Zocchi and RS in the safe for now. I am hoping to get a reasonable gauge of what the Boxxer has to offer and what I can do with it to get it tuned to perform like a Shiver.

 

[DHracer1067]

boxxers suck. keep the shiver

 

[thaflyinfatman]

Dude, you OWN both forks - you're far more qualified than nearly anyone else to decide which one is better! Pick the one you like more, then get rid of the other one...

 

[BrayDownhill]

I've used boxxers for years had my share of problems but I still love em. Get a second hand pair of races and the mojo kit and you'll be amazed at them, although they're still very much a race fork.

As far as shivers go they are smooth as but there is just to much flex, get a friend to stand with the front wheel braced at his knees and then twist the bars, you stand back and look at the horrible amount of flex, twang twang twang outa every corner. the older model ones are worse than the newer ones.

 

[Acadian]

1. Why would you need aftermarket upgrades for the Shiver? From what I hear it performs flawlessly as is.
2. from your post the impression I get is that you love the Shiver but for some reason you want to ride the RS. Reason? Weight?
3. I don't think the Mojo cart will make your boxxer feel like a Shiver.
4. You could keep both...ride them a tad more then make a sound decision. I'm also pretty sure there will see more companies offering upgrade options for the Boxxer down the road.
5. You could sell both and get an 888?

 

[JeffD]

Since when is it a benefit that a product can be upgraded with aftermarket stuff? I'd rather get a fork that works the first time and every time.

I'll let somebody else take their shots at the armchair flex analysis above. I've had an '02 Shiver and loved it, sold it and now regret it.

 

[BrayDownhill]

because you can pick up a second hand race in good condition and get the mojo cart upgrade for next to nothing. They are a good solution not to a bad forks problems but to a financial issue, they work well (much better than stock) and can work out very cheap.

 

[Acadian]

because you can pick up a second hand race in good condition and get the mojo cart upgrade for next to nothing. They are a good solution not to a bad forks problems but to a financial issue, they work well (much better than stock) and can work out very cheap.

From the 2 Mojoed Boxxer I've tried - I wasn't too impressed with this upgrade.

 

[BrayDownhill]

really? I've tried a load of em and liked em all, although a friend of mine disliked em because he was slap bang in the middle of the available weight springs, just found it too soft.

 

[binary visions]

I still laugh every time I hear people say:

"It's flexy. I wedged the front tire between my knees and twisted."

I'd like to see where you ride, if getting your tire stuck in people's knees when you're trying to turn is a common problem

 

[profro]

I still laugh every time I hear people say:

"It's flexy. I wedged the front tire between my knees and twisted."

I'd like to see where you ride, if getting your tire stuck in people's knees when you're trying to turn is a common problem

No doubt. That 'test' is the stupidest thing ever.

 

[Sandwich]

Yeah that test is crap, I mean, I did it when I owned a Hanebrink, and even though i could turn the handlebars 90 degrees from the tire, everybody knows those forks are super stiff, and that's why people still use them today (That's Sarcasm)

I think the twist test has some validity, but isn't the be all end all of stiffness testing. It only shows torsion (i believe), but isn't torsion important when exiting a corner or steering down a steep rockgarden? There are no units of measurement, and the test only goes by feel- but if one fork FEELS sloppier than another in this test, won't it FEEL sloppier in the same conditions in the real world?

Everybody is so quick to say this test is bunk, but is it? If you put the shiver a little lower in it's travel, say at full sag, and compare with a boxer so that each will be riding where they would normally be riding, isn't that a fair comparison of torsion?

 

[Sandwich]

PS, i like the idea of a Boxxer with ID cartridges...plus, if you dump one fork, you will get higher resale on the Shiver than the Boxxer race, there are so many of those on the market that they drop heavily in price. Plus, it would make a tight little package- light stiff and good performance with a damper upgrade.

 

[Tully]

You could sell both and get an 888?

You beat me to it! Seriously, I think the 888 would be perfect. Lighter than the Shiver, but way better performance than the Boxxer.

 

[Brian HCM#1]

Get the 888 it's the best fork ever!!!!!!












This week

 

[profro]

Yeah that test is crap, I mean, I did it when I owned a Hanebrink, and even though i could turn the handlebars 90 degrees from the tire, everybody knows those forks are super stiff, and that's why people still use them today (That's Sarcasm)

I think the twist test has some validity, but isn't the be all end all of stiffness testing. It only shows torsion (i believe), but isn't torsion important when exiting a corner or steering down a steep rockgarden? There are no units of measurement, and the test only goes by feel- but if one fork FEELS sloppier than another in this test, won't it FEEL sloppier in the same conditions in the real world?

Everybody is so quick to say this test is bunk, but is it? If you put the shiver a little lower in it's travel, say at full sag, and compare with a boxer so that each will be riding where they would normally be riding, isn't that a fair comparison of torsion?

Understanding how leg flex effects handling is far more complicated than twisting the handlebar while you hold the wheel between your legs. The torque arm (distance from the fork legs to the edge of wheel) is quite long when you hold it between your legs. But the only time I can see the torque arm being located at that point in real riding is when you are hiting a tree or large rock with the front of the wheel. Mostly the bottom of the wheel is in contact with any bending forces and at that position the torque arm is much less. So the leg twist test doesn't really model how the fork will handle trail induced flex. A better test would be to fix the handlebars, grab the wheel at the ground contact patch and try to twist the wheel back and forth. Do you feel the flex now?

 

[binary visions]

Everybody is so quick to say this test is bunk, but is it? If you put the shiver a little lower in it's travel, say at full sag, and compare with a boxer so that each will be riding where they would normally be riding, isn't that a fair comparison of torsion?

Frankly, the whole test is pretty weak. How often during the course of a ride is your 7" DC fork at static sag height? That's better then most people do on the test anyway - I've never seen someone push on the fork, THEN twist, they just twist it fully extended.

Let alone when your fork is wedged in between a couple rocks or when you're going into a corner hard enough to cause flex - in both of those circumstances, your fork is likely compressed to a lot more than sag height.

And let's face it, a significant portion of the riding community can't tell if their fork is flexing slightly or not, so they jump on these kind of tests that really mean nothing once you're in the saddle.

Try grabbing the bottom of your tire, where it contacts the ground, then twist the handlebars.. Where's your flex? edit: profro beat me to it

 

[Sandwich]

Those are better answers than "That test suxx"

to add to the controversy though- at one point the SUNN team was actually using flexier components, shocks and wheels, to try and allow the bike to track by itself along rough terrain....neato....

 

[Jm_]

Shiver. You won't find many...if any...riders on a shiver that regret it.

I'm undecided on if I'll ever try to get an 888, the uber-lightweight design (for marzocchi) leaves some question marks in my head as far as the durability of the innards.

 

[CBJ]

I don't regret the Shiver but I wish it was a little lighter.

 

[Brian Peterson]

I'd like to see where you ride, if getting your tire stuck in people's knees when you're trying to turn is a common problem

I had a guy bring up the "flex test" one time, so I asked if he rides like that.. His response was "I try to avoid as much as possible..." I couldn't help myself at this point... I replied "If you find yourself riding like that, your fork is the least of your problems."

Hell, most of people I talk to think the Shiver is flexy because they read it on the internet. They never noticed it, but it must be so... After all, they read it on the internet.

Brian

 

[Transcend]

I had a guy bring up the "flex test" one time, so I asked if he rides like that.. His response was "I try to avoid as much as possible..." I couldn't help myself at this point... I replied "If you find yourself riding like that, your fork is the least of your problems."

Hell, most of people I talk to think the Shiver is flexy because they read it on the internet. They never noticed it, but it must be so... After all, they read it on the internet.

Brian

brain, you KNOW everythingont he internet is true! :mumble:

Oh and politicians NEVER lie either.

 

[binary visions]

Hell, most of people I talk to think the Shiver is flexy because they read it on the internet. They never noticed it, but it must be so... After all, they read it on the internet.

It's truly amazing how many people think that because its in writing, it must be true...

 

[Brian Peterson]

F-
And no women in California have had cosmetic surgery...

Brian

 

[cali4niabiker]

Here is the verdict for the fork that is going to be dumped *drumroll* :love:

[commercial break]

Edit: it would sounds better if I inserted cheesy music.

 

[RhinofromWA]

From a relatively happy (knowing what it truely is) Race owner.

I would say keep the Shiver. That wouldn't be an issue if you have them bolth already.

Unless you want a lighter fork and that is REALLY important to you.

 

[cali4niabiker]

F-
And no women in California have had cosmetic surgery...

Brian

You wouldn't believe it man, there are TONS of women who've been under the knife around the Newport area. I think I'd go for the two sticks above the waist.

 

[dante]

flex-test: take bike with fork on it to DH mtn. aim for large rocks. whichever holds line straighter and doesn't get deflected to the side is stiffer.

 

[zedro]

so, people like the torsion test because it has a high gawking factor, but what about a lateral stiffness test, couldnt that offset performance? (rhetorical question).

Also that twist test relies heavily on the stiffness of your wheel and your handlebars, and also relying on the numskull to actually tighten his dropouts properly. I've tried the twisty test on my Shiver, and really it doesnt even flex that much anyways. How much is placebo effect?

the test sucks because it isnt scientific, nor practical, so theres no point.

 

[CBJ]

I am such a amateur I don't even know what the twist test is but I am really good at the parking lot test.

 

[vitox]

to add to the controversy though- at one point the SUNN team was actually using flexier components, shocks and wheels, to try and allow the bike to track by itself along rough terrain....neato....

rilly? that must have been after they made my HT because its the stiffest steel bike ive ridden.


didnt gracia and peaty use softer flexier rear ends to keep them from breaking too soon too?

 

[James | Go-Ride]

Putting aside the front wheel flex test, the best option IMO is the Shiver. The Boxxer's only advantage is weight, it loses everywhere else. The damping isn't as advanced or effective, the seal quality is much much lower, it requires more maintanance, has less adjustability, doesn't include forkguards, and doesn't have the capacity for an integrated stem with the stock crowns. I know the forkguard and stem thing aren't that important as compared to ride quality or maintanance, but they are more factors to consider.

I rode a Shiver all last season and I loved it. I never felt like the fork was flexy, in fact I couldn't tell the difference up front between the Shiver and my old S8 . . . other than the Shiver being 2 pounds lighter. I know some people are concerned that with the Shiver going out of production, replacement parts will be more difficult to come by. This is probably the case with some small parts, but the important things (springs, seals, bushings) will most likely be available for a long time. Marz is still making those parts for the original Z1 Bomber from 1997, I think Shiver owners won't have to sweat those parts for a few years.

 

[vitox]

Shiver. You won't find many...if any...riders on a shiver that regret it.

I'm undecided on if I'll ever try to get an 888, the uber-lightweight design (for marzocchi) leaves some question marks in my head as far as the durability of the innards.

id be questioning the lowers, the innards maybe because of the increased wear due to less oil.

 

[Jm_]

I think Shiver owners won't have to sweat those parts for a few years.

Shiver seals ARE 888 seals.

 

[buildyourown]

I'm not sure where you got the Boxxer is cheaper statement. That may be true for retail but they are going for about the same used on ebay.

I'd keep the Shiver unless ALL you ever wanted to do was race. I've had mine for 4 seasons and love it. I don't think a boxxer could take the abuse that the shiver has seen. The weight issue is moot once you get used to it and build up enough upper body strength to ride it all day long.

 

[xy9ine]

Those are better answers than "That test suxx"

to add to the controversy though- at one point the SUNN team was actually using flexier components, shocks and wheels, to try and allow the bike to track by itself along rough terrain....neato....

i read a similar bit about honda's frame development for gp roadracing; they had found that engineering compliance into the chassis design could be beneficial; ie - chassis rigidity isnt the be all end all...

 

[binary visions]

I am such a amateur I don't even know what the twist test is but I am really good at the parking lot test.

Stick your front wheel between your knees, and clamp down hard on it. Then grab your handlebars and twist them.

That is the infamous "twist test".

 

[CBJ]

I guess I should have put a smiley on my last post.

 

[binary visions]

I guess I should have put a smiley on my last post.

Doh.

Another sarcastic remark falls victim to communicating via text...

 

[buildyourown]

i read a similar bit about honda's frame development for gp roadracing; they had found that engineering compliance into the chassis design could be beneficial; ie - chassis rigidity isnt the be all end all...

Don't formula cars have no suspension at all and rely on the inharent flex of a small dia tubular cro-mo frame?
Maybe that's the answer. Bike frames that look like Ducatis.