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Boycott Mountain Bike Action and other Hi-Torque publications

Transcend

Transcend

My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,040
3
Towing the party line.
ekozy39 said:
You are proving my point..what is all the hate on people who voted YES doing, putting THEIR belief over the others.
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No, she isn't. If anything, everytime you post you are proving her point more and more.

Voting NO meant you elected to keep your nose out of someone else's business.

Voting YES means you elected to DENY a civil liberty that you yourself enjoy to someone due to one trait you are, for some reason, terrified of as a group due to sheer ignorance.
 
sanjuro

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
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SF
ekozy39 said:
Exactly, every gay man doesn't like being called a pedophile, or crazed sex addict lurking in public bath houses, yet they will generalize others?
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Prop 8 prevents gays from having a basic right of the majority, the legal protections of marriage.

I actually do not care what you or anyone else thinks of gays, which I have said several times. But by supporting Prop 8, it really doesn't matter what your intentions are.

I don't think my personal boycott of Roland Hinz's magazines is going to change his opinion or anyone else's, nor do want to. I just want to keep his money out of my family's life.
 
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ekozy39

Monkey
Apr 27, 2005
312
0
Transcend said:
wow, stereotyping much?

:Voting YES means you elected to DENY a civil liberty that you yourself enjoy to someone due to one trait you are, for some reason, terrified of as a group due to sheer ignorance.
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Stereotyping? Not at all. Seriously you gonna go there?

Not sure how much of the YES on 8 arguments you get to hear in Canada, but not stereotyping thats what people argue and where the fear comes from..

I'm not sure how someone's belief in the bible and God makes them ignorant..

I'll close by saying i do think 8 should have been left of the ballots, and we'll have to agree to disagree on the use of the word hate..
 
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AngryMetalsmith

AngryMetalsmith

Business is good, thanks for asking
Jun 4, 2006
21,239
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ekozy39 said:
My point isn't one way or another, but how can you make these people who vote YES out to be be hate monger, bigots, etc..to the level of boycotting them for something they believe.
If they have a religious perspective(one that this country was founded on), that they believe in, how does that make them haters?
My point is not supporting something and HATING it are not the same..
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Although the pilgrims ( remember them ? ) were a fundamentalist conservative group, they came to the new world to escape religious persecution and start a country based on the freedom of religion and the separation of church and state.
 
geargrrl

geargrrl

Turbo Monkey
May 2, 2002
2,379
1
pnw -dry side
Transcend said:
No, she isn't. If anything, everytime you post you are proving her point more and more.

Voting NO meant you elected to keep your nose out of someone else's business.

Voting YES means you elected to DENY a civil liberty that you yourself enjoy to someone due to one trait you are, for some reason, terrified of as a group due to sheer ignorance.
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by voting yes, you are trying control what other people do according to your beliefs, which is putting your nose in other people business.

A no vote means you understand that someone else's relationship is none of your business, whether you agree with it or not.
 
Transcend

Transcend

My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,040
3
Towing the party line.
ekozy39 said:
I'm not sure how someone's belief in the bible and God makes them ignorant..
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Believing that a human being are somehow different to you n a fundamental level and is less entitled to basic civic liberties is both ignorant and intolerant.

It is also in direct violation of your country's own Declaration of Independence.

It has nothing to do with the bible.

Was it ok to outlaw interracial marriage? Was it right to lynch black people? Was it right to own slaves? These are the exact same issues. people are being denied their civic liberties due to some basic difference that is completely out of their control.

It is absolutely appalling that anyone thinks that this is ok and actually defends it. It is bigotry, whether you like to admit it or not. It is also quite pathetic.

Oh and just in case you'd like to try and argue the definition of what a bigot it...
A bigot is a person who is intolerant of opinions, lifestyles or identities differing from his or her own
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ekozy39

Monkey
Apr 27, 2005
312
0
So both sides are bigots, right? Or are you going to say that b/c YOU believe the bible is wrong (or fiction) as you put, I don't qualify for or deserve your respect of my opinion?
 
Transcend

Transcend

My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,040
3
Towing the party line.
ekozy39 said:
So both sides are bigots, right? Or are you going to say that b/c YOU believe the bible is wrong (or fiction) as you put, I don't qualify for or deserve your respect of my opinion?
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No, I don't force my opinion down other people's throats by trying to take away their legal rights. Equality does not equal bigotry. I could care less what people do with their lives, and do not ever try and deny them that right.

Nice try trying to dodge the issue though.
 
Brian HCM#1

Brian HCM#1

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Sep 7, 2001
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ekozy39 said:
My point isn't one way or another, but how can you make these people who vote YES out to be be hate monger, bigots, etc..to the level of boycotting them for something they believe.
If they have a religious perspective(one that this country was founded on), that they believe in, how does that make them haters?
My point is not supporting something and HATING it are not the same..
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I don't think the USA was founded on religion.
 
jonKranked

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
86,082
24,611
media blackout
don't like gay marriage? then don't get one and shut the fvck up.


Not once in my life have I heard of a homosexual couple showing up at a heterosexual couples house and sodomizing/raping them or their children, or even interrupting dinner for that matter. Until this happens, the gays can do whatever they want as far as I'm concerned. I wish they would just stop having those damn parades. Your here, your queer, now STFU. I don't wave flags in your face about my sexuality do I?


In terms of MBA hating gays, Fvck them. My money wouldn't go to support their sh*tty ass magazine, even if they were sponsoring a bill to castrate rapists (edit: rapist castration is something I am actually in support of).
 
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ekozy39

Monkey
Apr 27, 2005
312
0
Transcend said:
No, I don't force my opinion down other people's throats by trying to take away their legal rights. Equality does not equal bigotry. I could care less what people do with their lives, and do not ever try and deny them that right.

Nice try trying to dodge the issue though.
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I didn't dodge anything, I didn't think I needed to say that of course i don't agree with lynching, banning interracial, etc..
I also already said i didn't think Prop 8 belonged on any ballot.
My only point was that i disagree with this HATE on people who believe differently, the boycotts, strikes in front of stores, etc.. So while maybe you personally could care less, there are many on the NO on 8 side that are acting no different than those on the other side...
 
Transcend

Transcend

My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,040
3
Towing the party line.
ekozy39 said:
I didn't dodge anything, I didn't think I needed to say that of course i don't agree with lynching, banning interracial, etc..
I also already said i didn't think Prop 8 belonged on any ballot.
My only point was that i disagree with this HATE on people who believe differently, the boycotts, strikes in front of stores, etc.. So while maybe you personally could care less, there are many on the NO on 8 side that are acting no different than those on the other side...
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You are arguing semantics. Hate does not mean you despise someone. It is a generic term for hate crimes, hate speech etc. This is exactly what this bill supports.

Denying someone the right to right on a bus or drink out of a water fountain because they were black was wrong. Denying someone the right to marry and be happy due to their sexuality is wrong for the exact same reasons.

You cannot simply deny rights to someone you enjoy because of a trait you do not agree with.

What's next, redheads can't drive cars?
 
sanjuro

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
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SF
ekozy39 said:
I didn't dodge anything, I didn't think I needed to say that of course i don't agree with lynching, banning interracial, etc..
I also already said i didn't think Prop 8 belonged on any ballot.
My only point was that i disagree with this HATE on people who believe differently, the boycotts, strikes in front of stores, etc.. So while maybe you personally could care less, there are many on the NO on 8 side that are acting no different than those on the other side...
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Ok, lets play it this way:

Boom, you have just lost your privilege to drive an automobile based on the fact that you wear glasses or you have acne or based on your skin color.

There was a political movement which took your privilege away, funded by private individuals, many of which live outside of the state you live in.

What would you do? Accept their reasoning, because it was in the Bible you driving is a sin and they are protecting their children by stopping you from driving?

Or would stop buying the products I produce and sell because I donated $12,500 to the political movement which took away your drivers license?
 
geargrrl

geargrrl

Turbo Monkey
May 2, 2002
2,379
1
pnw -dry side
We could go back and forth all day on this.. but the only times I've ever seen someone change their attitude belief is when they come face to face with someone who is gay. Usually, it's the coming-out of someone close to them who certainly didn't ACT gay.... and then it's having to come to terms with the fact that it's just people being people. Either that, or turn on them, disown them, move away from the neighbors or quit a job to get away from it.
 
sanjuro

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
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SF
Once again, let me state something:

I don't care if every person who voted for Prop 8 hates gays. I am not trying to change their minds.

I don't think boycotting MBA is going to change Roland Hinz's opinions. It does tell him that if he wants my business, supporting a cause which opposes my family is not going to get it.

But I'm not telling anyone that if you don't boycott MBA, you're a homophobe and a scumbag. There are going to be plenty of people who don't give a damn about gay rights, and that is fine with me. Just don't stop my sister and my gay friends from having the same rights as the majority.
 
binary visions

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
22,102
1,153
NC
ekozy39 said:
Simple question which you still haven't answered, what does boycotting a store owner or magazine b/c they don't believe what you do equal? Is that not bigotry as you describe it?
Again, i don't care what people do or who they marry. But to tell someone they have to agree with it or else, is not right either..
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No, it's not bigotry. It's a personal choice to not support a company who is trying to force its religious views on others.

In any event, you aren't getting this: it's not a matter of what they believe. I completely disagree with people thinking that homosexuals are sinners. However, they do have the right to believe that. What they don't have the right to do, is force that personal religious view on others. Voting "Yes" on Prop 8 was a deliberate effort to suppress the rights of a group of people. No different from making an effort to keep women from driving, or keep blacks from voting.

edit: I hit quote on this a while ago and never typed the response... looks like it got deleted in the meantime.
 
CRoss

CRoss

Turbo Monkey
Nov 20, 2006
1,329
0
The Ranch
The biggest problem I see here is prop 8 is asking people to say their religon/god is wrong. Good luck with that one. A civil union of gays might be able to work, marriage no way. Who are any of us to tell someone their god is wrong and we are right? Religions define marriage as the joining of a man and woman. If the gays want to make any headway they need to drop the term marriage and only deal with the legal side. It is an uphill battle on a vertical face to go against the religious side.
 
sanjuro

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
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SF
CRoss said:
The biggest problem I see here is prop 8 is asking people to say their religon/god is wrong. Good luck with that one. A civil union of gays might be able to work, marriage no way. Who are any of us to tell someone their god is wrong and we are right? Religions define marriage as the joining of a man and woman. If the gays want to make any headway they need to drop the term marriage and only deal with the legal side. It is an uphill battle on a vertical face to go against the religious side.
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I think we should smite men who hold hands in public.
 
TN

TN

Hey baby, want a hot dog?
Jul 9, 2002
14,301
1,353
Jimtown, CO
Jesus was not white as depicted by most the christians...what this has to do with gay marriage I don't know, but I think that is funny b/c he was from the mid-east.
 
stoney

stoney

Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde
Jul 26, 2006
21,654
7,331
Colorado
CRoss said:
The biggest problem I see here is prop 8 is asking people to say their religon/god is wrong. Good luck with that one. A civil union of gays might be able to work, marriage no way. Who are any of us to tell someone their god is wrong and we are right? Religions define marriage as the joining of a man and woman. If the gays want to make any headway they need to drop the term marriage and only deal with the legal side. It is an uphill battle on a vertical face to go against the religious side.
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Or make mariage a religious only ceremony. All legal joinings are domestic partnerships.
 
OGRipper

OGRipper

back alley ripper
Feb 3, 2004
10,655
1,129
NORCAL is the hizzle
CRoss said:
Either way they need separated. I do not see this battle ever coming to an end until this happens.
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It will never happen. People's beliefs will always influence the way they vote, that is natural and not necessarily a bad thing.

The real problem is allowing people to vote on an issue that IMO should be resolved by the courts. Laws are usually enacted by elected officials, but sometimes by popular vote like Prop 8. Unfortunately the will of the people will not always follow the Constitution. That's why we have the "check and balance" of the judicial branch. Case in point: All the segregation laws that were enacted by legislators or popular vote that were struck down by the Supreme Court as contrary to the Constitution. If the will of the people controlled, we'd still be living with officially-sanctioned segregation, sex discrimination, etc.

This issue will end up in the highest courts of the land, eventually, and it will come down to whether being gay is a choice or not.
 
sanjuro

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
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SF
BTW, boycotts are making a difference:

Prop. 8 campaign can't hide donors' names
The federal lawsuit, unrelated to the validity of Prop. 8, was filed Jan. 8 by the ballot measure's sponsoring committee, Protect Marriage. The suit said Internet disclosure of donors' names and other identifying information in state-mandated reports has led to consumer boycotts, picketing and even death threats.

By requiring disclosure, "The government is getting in the middle (of the issue) and saying, 'Here are the people to go after,' " Richard Coleson, a lawyer for the committee, told England.

He argued that the $100 disclosure requirement - adopted by California voters in 1974 - should be struck down, modified to raise the dollar limits, or at least not applied to Prop. 8's contributors. As a first step, Coleson said, the campaign should be exempted from the state's post-election contribution report, due Monday.

Otherwise, he said, in future initiative campaigns "you will have donations dry up, and one side will be able to overcome another by intimidation and not by persuasion."
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dante

dante

Unabomber
Feb 13, 2004
8,807
9
looking for classic NE singletrack
He argued that the $100 disclosure requirement - adopted by California voters in 1974 - should be struck down, modified to raise the dollar limits, or at least not applied to Prop. 8's contributors. As a first step, Coleson said, the campaign should be exempted from the state's post-election contribution report, due Monday.
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Wait, what? The law shouldn't apply to them, because.... ?
 
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