truth. i'll run hopes forever for this reason (almost) alone. their performance is top notch for sure and the levers are the best shape i've used, but the bleeding procedure puts them on top.
Brake Dilemma
- Thread starter fubuki
- Start date
Bits and pieces I have read - Regarding the MT7....
Two versions - one with tool free and one without.
BAT tool free adjustment dial available for the tool version.
Tool version gets closer to the bar.
Originally 4 finger blades
2 finger blades introduced in 2015
2 finger blades get closer to the bar
2 finger Ball end blades available on German websites. - no idea if a different bend.
Single finger blades coming by interbike.
Newer versions (Next?) (date?) have revised leverage curves giving a difference between MT5 and MT7
After revision newer MT7 has Gustav power but with great modulation.
Currently strongest DH brake based on flywheel torque.
...I did however find a set of tool required version, with the 2015 2 finger levers for a killer price.
Thinking I can add the BAT adjusters for 25$, then add the single finger levers when they come available.
However I don't know when they revised the levers to give a bigger difference between models (the Next update I think)
That becomes a bit of a kluge...
Was looking for a stronger brake because I have faded the XO Trail and have the same concern about the Guide RSC because same caliper. I have also burnt a 203mm Magura Venti-rotor with the XO trails.
Guide / Code is an idea I've kicked around - but without a hookup - a bit costly.
Hope is costly as well - just don't know if I can come up with an extra 250.00
Current MT7's are also costly - even in Germany - ie Hope prices.
Formula I have never really considered because of their initial cost, but with the diversification of the line, maybe I will take a few minutes and have a look.
Thanks guys - Cheers!!
Two versions - one with tool free and one without.
BAT tool free adjustment dial available for the tool version.
Tool version gets closer to the bar.
Originally 4 finger blades
2 finger blades introduced in 2015
2 finger blades get closer to the bar
2 finger Ball end blades available on German websites. - no idea if a different bend.
Single finger blades coming by interbike.
Newer versions (Next?) (date?) have revised leverage curves giving a difference between MT5 and MT7
After revision newer MT7 has Gustav power but with great modulation.
Currently strongest DH brake based on flywheel torque.
...I did however find a set of tool required version, with the 2015 2 finger levers for a killer price.
Thinking I can add the BAT adjusters for 25$, then add the single finger levers when they come available.
However I don't know when they revised the levers to give a bigger difference between models (the Next update I think)
That becomes a bit of a kluge...
Was looking for a stronger brake because I have faded the XO Trail and have the same concern about the Guide RSC because same caliper. I have also burnt a 203mm Magura Venti-rotor with the XO trails.
Guide / Code is an idea I've kicked around - but without a hookup - a bit costly.
Hope is costly as well - just don't know if I can come up with an extra 250.00
Current MT7's are also costly - even in Germany - ie Hope prices.
Formula I have never really considered because of their initial cost, but with the diversification of the line, maybe I will take a few minutes and have a look.
Thanks guys - Cheers!!
Any risk takers? 
http://boxcomponents.com/mtb/product/genius-brake-levers/
Btw. the Magura MT levers are rubbish. I like my SaintGuras with Saint lever / MTS calipers, but I never liked any of the MT or MT Next levers I've tried.
http://boxcomponents.com/mtb/product/genius-brake-levers/
Btw. the Magura MT levers are rubbish. I like my SaintGuras with Saint lever / MTS calipers, but I never liked any of the MT or MT Next levers I've tried.
As above, the Magura levers are horrid, so the only good solution there is a mix.
Unfortunately the Shimano lever is the gamble end (why I and many others avoid the M820 in the first place) so it's a bit of a dice roll. The Magura combo does have slightly less power than the full M820 setup though, and as a result the lever throw is slightly shorter + less likely to cause issues due to throw variations, so it's a step in the right direction.
Guide complete isn't very powerful and most sponsored riders I know have obtained complete Codes or Code calipers at least, so on the SRAM front the latter options would be my pick. I'm not in love with their build quality, and while the Guide Ultimate caliper seems to be their best work so far, the Code caliper doesn't feature the same updates.
I don't think any of the current stock options are without issue, although in terms of build quality and consistency/reliability both Formula and Hope come out on top. Neither are without (other) flaws in my book, and both are very expensive for brakes that still aren't perfect. I do like both of those because there are rarely any nasty surprises though.
I think currently it's just a matter of picking the best compromise for you (and that includes cost, since as suggested above, building mixed brakes isn't cheap). It shouldn't be like this but it is.
I have a new frankenbrake in the works.
I wish I had the facilities to manufacture my own from scratch!
Unfortunately the Shimano lever is the gamble end (why I and many others avoid the M820 in the first place) so it's a bit of a dice roll. The Magura combo does have slightly less power than the full M820 setup though, and as a result the lever throw is slightly shorter + less likely to cause issues due to throw variations, so it's a step in the right direction.
Guide complete isn't very powerful and most sponsored riders I know have obtained complete Codes or Code calipers at least, so on the SRAM front the latter options would be my pick. I'm not in love with their build quality, and while the Guide Ultimate caliper seems to be their best work so far, the Code caliper doesn't feature the same updates.
I don't think any of the current stock options are without issue, although in terms of build quality and consistency/reliability both Formula and Hope come out on top. Neither are without (other) flaws in my book, and both are very expensive for brakes that still aren't perfect. I do like both of those because there are rarely any nasty surprises though.
I think currently it's just a matter of picking the best compromise for you (and that includes cost, since as suggested above, building mixed brakes isn't cheap). It shouldn't be like this but it is.
I have a new frankenbrake in the works.
I wish I had the facilities to manufacture my own from scratch!
So with a clean slate, how would yours end up being different than the Formula/Hope options?
Depends if people were open to running bigger rotors or not, to be honest - since switching to 650b without a proportional increase in rotor size is what has exaggerated issues with brakes in my book. I'd have a different reply depending on the answer to that question (leaving for a ride now but happy to make a list for each later).
Generating the required power with acceptably short total lever throw is a hard task with the current rotor sizes I think (for 650b DH use that is, heavy use trailbikes can just go up to 203F or F/R and be sorted really).
Without bigger rotors I think it would take careful optimisation of a lot of small areas to avoid the various pitfalls that each brand makes while still maximising power and minimising throw (which are probably the two biggest pitfalls themselves).
@Udi
Any comments on the Formula T1R?
I quite like size/look vs the R0
Avid is pretty much out of contention.
Hated the bleed bullshit.
The RSC is supposed to be better, but XO trail caliper again.
Don't want to have to build a proper DH set from various models.
Hated the inconsistency - they always seemed to need a tweak every ride (with 1/2+ worn pads)
The 2016 MT7 is supposed to be changed to provide a closer to the bar experience from stock,
...plus the new one finger blade.... http://www.magura.com/en/components/news/2016/hc-brake-lever-for-mt/
What is it that you don't like about the Tech3v4's?
Costwise
Brakes only, no rotors / hardware
Guide RSC = 350.00 Cdn for reference.
Hopes for about 480 Cdn, but I'm checking out some for 420
Maguras - 2015 - 325.00 Cdn plus 25.00 for BAT + ?? for the new levers.
2017 - with all updates including the new levers = 525.00 Cdn
2016 - 425.00 Cdn or so, you get the better adjustment, but then you need to add levers down the road...
Hopes = UK Stores , Magura = German Stores for best prices respectively.
Any comments on the Formula T1R?
I quite like size/look vs the R0
Avid is pretty much out of contention.
Hated the bleed bullshit.
The RSC is supposed to be better, but XO trail caliper again.
Don't want to have to build a proper DH set from various models.
Hated the inconsistency - they always seemed to need a tweak every ride (with 1/2+ worn pads)
The 2016 MT7 is supposed to be changed to provide a closer to the bar experience from stock,
...plus the new one finger blade.... http://www.magura.com/en/components/news/2016/hc-brake-lever-for-mt/
What is it that you don't like about the Tech3v4's?
Costwise
Brakes only, no rotors / hardware
Guide RSC = 350.00 Cdn for reference.
Hopes for about 480 Cdn, but I'm checking out some for 420
Maguras - 2015 - 325.00 Cdn plus 25.00 for BAT + ?? for the new levers.
2017 - with all updates including the new levers = 525.00 Cdn
2016 - 425.00 Cdn or so, you get the better adjustment, but then you need to add levers down the road...
Hopes = UK Stores , Magura = German Stores for best prices respectively.
'Cause maybe I'm old, fat and slow now, so I want brakes that brake, not cause breaks...
i didn't realize gwin had issues with his TRP's.'Cause maybe I'm old, fat and slow now, so I want brakes that brake, not cause breaks...
For that price I'd just get them.
I found the throw on the long side for my liking and the weight too high (would add 0.2kg to my bike) but with that said, the throw feels consistent both over a run and between L/R (the latter thanks to the stainless hoses), and the weight is very close to M820 brakes (with normal hoses) in fairness. Overall probably one of the best current brakes.
Both the Formula and Hope brakes have substantially higher build quality than other brands (Shimano, Avid, Magura, etc) and all small parts are readily available individually - so you're paying extra for a non-disposable brake in my book. I wouldn't bother with the T1R either, the ROR is already ridiculously light and is more powerful than the T1R which is only negligibly lighter.
Last edited:
So I've been looking, and apparently the Magura performance pads are the same, semi metallic soft compound on the split pads and the solid ones. I may try out some uber bike sintered pads to get more bite in the future.
Udi, I think your love of formulas might be one of the few things we don't agree on. To me, they seem to be of similar build quality to everything else. Good, but not jaw dropping. I also found the t1ses that I had to be "just ok". I much preferred My 810s and even xts, but they are certainly adequate and some of the trails I have them on now are more challenging than most I've ridden, at least for brakes.
Udi, I think your love of formulas might be one of the few things we don't agree on. To me, they seem to be of similar build quality to everything else. Good, but not jaw dropping. I also found the t1ses that I had to be "just ok". I much preferred My 810s and even xts, but they are certainly adequate and some of the trails I have them on now are more challenging than most I've ridden, at least for brakes.
I've decided to go for the Hopes.
Was able to get the price match for 420.00 Cdn
I've always been happy with Magura, still running their Venti-Rotors on two bikes....
I decided I was just not prepared to have to deal with different versions, adding BAT assemblies, and then blades to get what I wanted, especially at the same price as the Hopes.
There is just something about them, especially being a retired machinist...
I would just kick myself for not getting them when I had the chance.
Like you said @Udi - not disposable after a few years.
Thank-you all.
Cheers Bois!!
Was able to get the price match for 420.00 Cdn
I've always been happy with Magura, still running their Venti-Rotors on two bikes....
I decided I was just not prepared to have to deal with different versions, adding BAT assemblies, and then blades to get what I wanted, especially at the same price as the Hopes.
There is just something about them, especially being a retired machinist...
I would just kick myself for not getting them when I had the chance.
Like you said @Udi - not disposable after a few years.
Thank-you all.
Cheers Bois!!
You're comparing the lowest end Formula brake to top end Shimanos?
Names can be deceiving since the initial lettering is the same, but the S suffixed brakes are the bottom barrel options with cast MC bodies (just like Shimano and Avid) and are essentially a very different brake to the top end options where everything is cold forged. I don't think I'd bother with anything that wasn't an RO these days, ideally with the new race lever.
Anyway, nothing on the market (yes, nothing) beats the M810 and M820 for sheer braking force (thanks servowave) nor pad glaze resistance (thanks icetech). Unfortunately they have issues for a lot of people (I've tried and ditched both), hence these threads where guys like mykel prefix their questions with "don't tell me to buy Shimano". If they fixed their inconsistencies I'd probably be back on them faster than anyone, but got sick of the initial lottery and throw variation/increase over time.
Let us know how you get on with them after some riding.
Last edited:
Yes, everyone loves turning a 5 minute job into a 30 minute job.