Brakes. I needs them.
- Thread starter HAB
- Start date
wtf. whats up w/ your formulas? Saints all the way, yo.
They're great. I've just got more than 1 bike.
Easy, new style Saints. Besides that I'd get the V2's over the Formulas for reliability and modulation though. I think the only place the Formulas win out is weight.
I've got the last gen Ones and really like them performance wise, but they are a bit more maintenance than others, and eat pads pretty fast.
Another vote for M810 Saints. They fit your criteria to a T. 
Saint. You needs them.
saint, i have them
Saints= Face melting stopping power.
Saints. They're not perfect but they have so much power that I really don't care much about their flaws.
The good:
- Power
- Lever blade is super comfy
- Power
- Tool-free reach adjustment
- Power. Even when the pads are glazed.
- They're Shimano, you can get parts and pads everywhere.
- They're really powerful
- Bleeding them isn't rocket surgery
- Harder to overheat than any other brake I've used
Bad:
- The lever reach/bite point changes itself from time to time (including mid-run) and I have no real idea why.
- Occasionally they howl, seems to be when wet
- The bite point adjuster just makes the lever throw notchy instead of actually doing anything productive
- It can be pretty hard to get all the air out of the master cylinder when you're bleeding them, it seems to get trapped around the bite point adjuster
- Pads are really expensive, as are the brakes themselves
- The lever pivot is a fair way from the bar. Not exactly the end of the earth.
- They're really powerful. Just kidding, that isn't a bad thing.
The good:
- Power
- Lever blade is super comfy
- Power
- Tool-free reach adjustment
- Power. Even when the pads are glazed.
- They're Shimano, you can get parts and pads everywhere.
- They're really powerful
- Bleeding them isn't rocket surgery
- Harder to overheat than any other brake I've used
Bad:
- The lever reach/bite point changes itself from time to time (including mid-run) and I have no real idea why.
- Occasionally they howl, seems to be when wet
- The bite point adjuster just makes the lever throw notchy instead of actually doing anything productive
- It can be pretty hard to get all the air out of the master cylinder when you're bleeding them, it seems to get trapped around the bite point adjuster
- Pads are really expensive, as are the brakes themselves
- The lever pivot is a fair way from the bar. Not exactly the end of the earth.
- They're really powerful. Just kidding, that isn't a bad thing.
I have codes on my AM/FR and saints on my DH bike.
While the codes have awesome power and modulation if bled properly, they suck air in pretty fast, and I get upset bleeding them over and over 2-3 times a season. They also eat pads for breakfast, which plain sucks.
The saints are equally powerful and while they don't offer the modulation feel at the lever that can be felt with codes, I had no problems with accidental wheel lockup while riding. They are also said to have longer lasting pads and no need for constant bleeding, which is why I chose them.
While the codes have awesome power and modulation if bled properly, they suck air in pretty fast, and I get upset bleeding them over and over 2-3 times a season. They also eat pads for breakfast, which plain sucks.
The saints are equally powerful and while they don't offer the modulation feel at the lever that can be felt with codes, I had no problems with accidental wheel lockup while riding. They are also said to have longer lasting pads and no need for constant bleeding, which is why I chose them.
I have been using Hope Moto V2s for the last season and a half and they have been really goo. Best brakes I have ever used, though having said that I havn't used Saints or Ones. So my oppinion is effectivly null and void.
The only problem I have had so far is that when the pads get worn down a bit (like only a 1/3 of the original material left) the bite point can become a bit inconsistent. Easy fix though, just bung in some new pads.
The only problem I have had so far is that when the pads get worn down a bit (like only a 1/3 of the original material left) the bite point can become a bit inconsistent. Easy fix though, just bung in some new pads.
Sorry for the jack, do your hope brakes work in the wet? I have Motos and whatever the new ones are called and neither stop when wet, I have used both Sintered and organic genuine pads and they just don't work when wet.
Well I ride in the UK so the need to work in the wet! If you leave them out in the rain for a few hours then sometimes they will start to howl pretty bad, but one or two stops and they are back to working well again.
Buy Hope!
Cool. One question on the way outboard pivot- I tend to run my brake levers pretty far inboard. Kind of freekishly so, since I've got pretty big hands. I'm running some older Shimano brakes and have the levers in as far as they will go. Anyway, do you think the pivot placement will be problematic, given that preference?
no. I typically run mine in WAY close to the bar. My hands are medium sized and I'm not very good, so I tend to be on the brakes a lot. Mine have been 1" or less from the bar, and they do just fine. I imagine that braking may be better at the "optimum pivot point" but that's bupkus.
quit bragging.
I got the new Saints the day before I left for Whistler. I bolted them on and let 'em rip. Out of the box, with the only the factory bleed, they felt great. There is a small bit of mush in the action that could be from a less-than-perfect factory bleed, but it is nothing I would complain about. The power is there and it makes one-finger braking super easy. For having so much power, they are not on/off brakes, and have a nice modulation. I'm not going to fiddle with the bleed at all.
The reach adjustment is nice and easy to use. I haven't adjusted the contact point pre-load, though word around the campfire is that it is useless.
I found that on my two day trip to Whistler (my only ride on them to-date), I felt more comfortable carrying more speed than I ever have before. I always kinda worried about my Magura Louise Carbon BAT (with Goodridge lines) even though I never had a problem. With the Saint's I just KNEW I could stop if I whenever I needed to. I had no issues with arm pump, when others riding with me were complaining. To be fair, I've changed my off-season training and I switched to POC Bone guards, which are less constricting than other pads I've run.
I'm sure the Formula brakes are fine, but the thing that sealed the deal for me was the availability of parts for Saints over Formula (the mineral oil factor is also nice). If you aren't counting grams, I'd say you'd be hard pressed to beat the Saint.
i've had enough mixed results with hopes over the years that i hesitate to try them again. and while i'm not a weight weenie, the 640 g weight of the V2s seems excessive given the mediocre braking power compared The Ones and Saints.
Saints are a safe choice. Only complaints i hear are that the lever / bite point seems to change randomly, and that bleeding the air past the bite point adjuster is a PIA.
Since I already have plenty of formula brakes / rotors, i recently got the 2010 The Ones (I never liked the 2009 One levers when I tried them). the 2010 Ones have the best combo of power and feel I've ever ridden (I weigh 195 lbs w/o gear). The linked graph, above, sez the power is essentially tied for first with the Saints, and after doing some real rides this week I believe it. The fact that I just saved 340 g (0.75 lbs) vs the Saints and almost 1 1/4 pounds vs the V2s is just extra gravy.
Plus the formula pads are relatively cheap. I see them in more and more shops; my LBS is more likely to have 24 mm Formula sintered pads in stock than Saint pads. YMMV.
btw if you're purchasing retail, ebay has a french dealer selling 2010 Ones w/ adaptors and rotors (your choice of sizes) for 249 bucks including fast shipping.
Saints are a safe choice. Only complaints i hear are that the lever / bite point seems to change randomly, and that bleeding the air past the bite point adjuster is a PIA.
Since I already have plenty of formula brakes / rotors, i recently got the 2010 The Ones (I never liked the 2009 One levers when I tried them). the 2010 Ones have the best combo of power and feel I've ever ridden (I weigh 195 lbs w/o gear). The linked graph, above, sez the power is essentially tied for first with the Saints, and after doing some real rides this week I believe it. The fact that I just saved 340 g (0.75 lbs) vs the Saints and almost 1 1/4 pounds vs the V2s is just extra gravy.
Plus the formula pads are relatively cheap. I see them in more and more shops; my LBS is more likely to have 24 mm Formula sintered pads in stock than Saint pads. YMMV.
btw if you're purchasing retail, ebay has a french dealer selling 2010 Ones w/ adaptors and rotors (your choice of sizes) for 249 bucks including fast shipping.
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Perhaps because people are buying the Saints and not the Formulas?
Check universalcycles.com as well. They have discounted shipping and the "vip15" code will get you 15% off orders over $300. I got mine that way, and saved a boatload.
Thanks for the help guys. The fact that I manage a shop means I'm not too worried about parts availability, I'll just make sure we stock whatever I need. 
Sounds like Saints are the winners. I'm going to play around with my current brakes (ghetto cobbled together Saint 800 calipers on ancient Deore levers) a little more, but if I continue to be dissatisfied with, Saint 810s it is.
Sounds like Saints are the winners. I'm going to play around with my current brakes (ghetto cobbled together Saint 800 calipers on ancient Deore levers) a little more, but if I continue to be dissatisfied with, Saint 810s it is.
careful with the definition of "parts availability"...it's not being able to find what you need that I'm concerned with, it's being marooned at a ski hill and being able to get back on the mountain. There's a much larger possibility of finding shimano brass olives at say, plattekill, than formula parts. I guess if you're the kind of guy that carries full set spares (or a full identical bike like Demo 9) then you're set, but I can't afford/don't want to do that, so I take SOME comfort knowing that I may be able to replace what I don't carry on-mountain.
I'm "that guy". In the OCD spare parts way, not the "I have 4 DH bikes and spend so much time showing them off online I don't actually ride" way.
I only take replacements for expendables to races.... rotors, derailler, tires, tubes,
:knocks on wood:
:knocks on wood:
I'll do that, plus cables, hoses, fittings, brake pads, and a wheelset.I only take replacements for expendables to races.... rotors, derailler, tires, tubes,
:knocks on wood:
Still Hadleys on Arrow rims?
I'm really digging my Saint hubs. Going to relace on 823s after nuking my 5.1 rear rim last weekend.
I've never been too crazy about shimano hubs. I kinda wanna save my pennies and lace up 823's on hadleys, but then again also sorta wanna try the stealth hubs. Or I could just stay on outlaws for a lot less money.
Why the Stealths? I mean, the silent instant engagement is cool, but don't they weigh about 5 tons? And what's the complaint on Shimano hubs? They're not that expensive, they've got good bearings, and they're pretty durable.
How? I have blown up a couple XT freehub bodies, but it's been a while.
a) CRC for cheap shimano goods. Get some friends and put together a $250 order for free shipping.
I don't think saints are overkill for the rear, I have plenty of modulation before lockup.
I don't think saints are overkill for the rear, I have plenty of modulation before lockup.
I can still get them through the shop, it's just a matter of having to order from someone we wouldn't normally bother with unless we need something we can't get from QBP. Like this.
Oh word...well it's up to you whether you want matching brakes and levers or if you don't care. I will say I don't think the 810s are overkill in the rear; they may have more power than necessary but you can rarely have too much power in your brakes so long as they modulate well.
I haven't tried everything out there so I don't want to say they're the best yada yada, but I have no complaints after a season, and they school my gustavs, hopes, hayes, I've owned and Louise, juicies, and BB7s I've tried.
I haven't tried everything out there so I don't want to say they're the best yada yada, but I have no complaints after a season, and they school my gustavs, hopes, hayes, I've owned and Louise, juicies, and BB7s I've tried.
I don't give a crap about cosmetics, and they look like the same levers, except in different colors, so they should feel about the same. But I'm realizing dealing with different pads and whatnot could be a PITA. I'll just get another Saint.