[laura]

The RSPCA in the UK has come forward to ask for an end to breed specific legislation. This is a huge deal in the dog world because most large animal welfare organizations side with breed specific legislation, refusing to adopt out "dangerous dogs" and euthenizing fighting dogs, deeming them un-rehab-able.


Milwaukee has special classes that Pit Bull Type owners have to attend to have a dog in the city but we don't have bans around here. Pitt bull types are actually quite popular. After adopting Jack (a shepherd/husky) with aggressive tendencies I am planning to take the class as well.

So what say you. Yay or nay for BSL and the Dangerous Dog Act.

 

[valve bouncer]

I think the "Dangerous Owners Act" needs tweaking before anything else is done.

 

[stevew]

if you feel the need, take the class if you have a dog with aggressive tendencies.

despite michael vicks best efforts, most of his dogs weren't killers.

 

[laura]

if you feel the need, take the class if you have a dog with aggressive tendencies.

I'm taking the class out of a general curiosity and an interest in "aggressive or dangerous dogs". I think a 90 minute class and certification saying you are fit to own a dog deemed "dangerous" is a joke. My question is about breed specific legislation and your feelings on that.

 

[Kevin]

We had BSL (bull**** specific legislation) in Holland as well and they ended it about a year ago.
I love Pitbulls but I have to admit that problems due to bad owners can be severe, but they are no worse then with any other powerfull dog breed that will become popular after banning pitbulls in certain areas.
Its the owner, not the dog.

Some breeds are probably less suitable for cowded areas but as long as people know how to handle these breeds problems should be allmost non existent.
Pitbulls however are by nature more suitable then most people tend to believe, mostly as a result of bad coverage in the media.

 

[Samirol]

Classifying purebred pitbulls as dangerous is pretty ridiculous, it is the mix-breeds that tend to cause more problems.

The problem often lies in owner mistreatment.

 

[laura]

Classifying purebred pitbulls as dangerous is pretty ridiculous, it is the mix-breeds that tend to cause more problems.

The problem often lies in owner mistreatment.

Depending on who you talk to, there is no such thing as a purebred Pit. That is why BSL refers to them as "pit bull type" dogs lumping everything from Presa Canarios to frickin' Boxers into the group when the fancy strikes. The breed isn't recognized by the UKC. The American Pit Bull Terrier is a mix of terriers and bulldogs, bred specifically for the gameness of a terrier and the athleticism of a bulldog, thus making the breed a mutt, sort of.

 

[Samirol]

Any breed-specific legislation is silly, because even the most docile breed can have a vicious puppy if it comes from a puppy mill. Puppy mills and backyard breeders probably should be banned.

 

[Silver]

The problem with BSL is that every 10 years there is a new "Danger Dog" based on whatever dog happens to be in the news. It wasn't that long ago that Dobermans were the dog every soccer mom freaked out about.

Every dog is potentially a dangerous dog.

 

[dan-o]

Those regulations are lame. Our homeowners insurance had a large surcharge due to our two german shepherds. Programs dealing with individual dogs with proven aggression problems would be a better angle. I have little empathy for ****ty dogs or their owners.

 

[laura]

The problem with BSL is that every 10 years there is a new "Danger Dog" based on whatever dog happens to be in the news. It wasn't that long ago that Dobermans were the dog every soccer mom freaked out about.

Every dog is potentially a dangerous dog.

No joke. If it was up to me Dalmatians and Great Danes would be banned.

 

[$tinkle]

<mmike>

i don't have a dog in this fight

</mmike>

 

[stevew]

I'm taking the class out of a general curiosity and an interest in "aggressive or dangerous dogs". I think a 90 minute class and certification saying you are fit to own a dog deemed "dangerous" is a joke. My question is about breed specific legislation and your feelings on that.

fvck breed specific legislation.

i encountered more aggressive poodles than i did pitbulls when i worked with dogs.

 

[sanjuro]

To be honest, this is like my attitudes towards gun control: it should be determined by locality.

For example, in the Bronx, where I grew up, there are several notable deaths by pitbull. I know raised by responsible owners, these dogs are no problem, but in a place with the kinds of idiots around my neighborhood, there might be a need for some control.

 

[laura]

To be honest, this is like my attitudes towards gun control: it should be determined by locality.

For example, in the Bronx, where I grew up, there are several notable deaths by pitbull. I know raised by responsible owners, these dogs are no problem, but in a place with the kinds of idiots around my neighborhood, there might be a need for some control.

So what happens when you ban pits and these irresponsible dog owners get german shepherds or akitas or a cranky lab.

 

[$tinkle]

i think he means ban all handheld dogs (if his analogy is to hold)

 

[sanjuro]

So what happens when you ban pits and these irresponsible dog owners get german shepherds or akitas or a cranky lab.

The last time I was in the Bronx, I didn't see any German Shepherds or Akitas.

Hey, can I help it if I grew up in da Hood?

 

[$tinkle]

damn son, you're hard as chinese arithmetic

 

[laura]

Hey, can I help it if I grew up in da Hood?

I don't know what the **** you are talking about.

 

[skinny mike]

I don't know what the **** you are talking about.

i don't think he does either...

 

[sanjuro]

OK, we will play it the other way.

The Bronx is notorious for hoodlum types who cling to gang symbols like Pit Bulls. Not surprisingly, there are several infamous deaths from Pit Bull attacks. Just google the words "Pit Bull Bronx".

As much as I would like the Royal Society for the Protection of Animals or a dog lover from Tennessee to dictate legislation that affects my family who still lives in the Bronx, that would be akin to suggesting Chuck Schumer determine gun laws for Nashville.

On my block alone, there are several pit bulls. Are there other kinds of dogs as well? Possibly, but we only notice the pit bulls because of the attacks by the pit bulls against other dogs and their extremely hostile attitude towards humans.

If I thought legislation would improve the way the owners raised their dogs, I would be for it. The only other solution for the Bronx would be to limit the ownership of pit bulls.

BTW, I wish people could argue their points without making it personal or racist.

 

[laura]

If I thought legislation would improve the way the owners raised their dogs, I would be for it. The only other solution for the Bronx would be to limit the ownership of pit bulls.

BTW, I wish people could argue their points without making it personal or racist.

AND this begs the ****ing question that I asked earlier. What happens when a new vicious dog is in vogue in "da hood"? That's the question I asked a couple of posts back that you never answered.

 

[laura]

As much as I would like the Royal Society for the Protection of Animals or a dog lover from Tennessee to dictate legislation that affects my family.


BTW, I wish people could argue their points without making it personal or racist.

Practice what you preach, brotha.

BTW, TN was number 2 in dog related fatalities in 2007. Second only to TX.

 

[sanjuro]

AND this begs the ****ing question that I asked earlier. What happens when a new vicious dog is in vogue in "da hood"? That's the question I asked a couple of posts back that you never answered.

That's a good question, but I think pit bulls are here to stay for the ultimate "killer dog".

Michael Vick had almost entirely pit bulls in his kennel, I'm sure for two reasons: pit bulls can be trained to be extremely aggressive and their status. And his incarceration did nothing to diminish the pit bull's reputation.

Again, I am not for pit bull laws in other areas, just in the locality of New York City. Just like I am strongly for gun control in NYC but indifferent in less populous and violent cities, I just don't trust people in the Bronx to do the right thing.

 

[$tinkle]

as a point of order: my ex-roomie & i had 2 male pit mixes. very well mannered & disciplined.

 

[laura]

That's a good question, but I think pit bulls are here to stay for the ultimate "killer dog".

.

So what is the point of BSL? If you tell a pit owner that they can't have a pit they aren't going to stop owning dogs.

 

[laura]

as a point of order: my ex-roomie & i had 2 male pit mixes. very well mannered & disciplined.

I'd have one in a second but TN hates them. And people that own them. We just got a new foster in at work. Gorgeous black and white pit named Brick. The sweetest baby boy I have ever met in my life. If we hadn't have scooped up Jack, I would have to have brought him home, at least for a little while.

 

[ohio]

So what is the point of BSL? If you tell a pit owner that they can't have a pit they aren't going to stop owning dogs.

Not sure how I feel about it yet, but in some sense it protects the breed. Outlaw pitbulls in areas where the pitbulls are inevitably owned by gang members and dog fighters, and sure they may move on to some other breed (rottie, mastiff, etc come to mind), but it will mean that the stigma associated with pits fades and other localities will lose their irrational fear of the breed.

We'll never got rid of blanket euthanasia laws until we address the fact that suburban moms run screaming at the sight of a pit bull. How would YOU propose to fix the stigma which is the root of this breed discrimination?

 

[Samirol]

Not sure how I feel about it yet, but in some sense it protects the breed. Outlaw pitbulls in areas where the pitbulls are inevitably owned by gang members and dog fighters, and sure they may move on to some other breed (rottie, mastiff, etc come to mind), but it will mean that the stigma associated with pits fades and other localities will lose their irrational fear of the breed.

We'll never got rid of blanket euthanasia laws until we address the fact that suburban moms run screaming at the sight of a pit bull. How would YOU propose to fix the stigma which is the root of this breed discrimination?

kill all suburban moms

 

[$tinkle]

kill all suburban moms

i know of 2 guys who were into that - uday & qusay - but they're a little busy for the time being

 

[Silver]

How would YOU propose to fix the stigma which is the root of this breed discrimination?

I'd start by killing everyone on the subscription list of "Source" magazine.

 

[Slugman]

Too damn tired to read through all this... so I hope my $.02 isn't a repeat.

The owner will determine 75% of the dog's tendencies. A-hole owner, a-hole dog.

Breed behavior is a reality. There is a reason certain dogs are chosen to be fighting dogs... otherwise you'd have Jack Russels killing children. Seriously.. how many Golden retrievers have been used in dog fighting (other than bait dogs).

All that being said - you can train any dog to be anyway you want. I used the golden retriever reference because my Uncle used them as Guard/attack dogs. 1st time he set them out as guards - found a bloody shoe the next day... no joke.

Breed specific behaviour should be noted on the dog license (like registering a gun), and EVERY dog should be licensed. However no dog breed should be prohibited.

Every owner should be held 100% responsible for that dog's behavior... you're dog kills someone - you get charged. A dog is just like a car or a gun - you are responsible for what happens.

 

[$tinkle]

an enforcement idea?

Dog electrocuted in Toronto park

TORONTO &#8212; A dog was electrocuted Tuesday after trying to relieve itself near a hydro pole in a west-end Toronto neighbourhood, the second occurrence in three months.

A 25-year-old man had been walking his five-year-old Labrador-poodle dog, Mrak, in High Park around 2:15 a.m., when the dog stepped on a metal plate at the base of a Toronto Hydro pole.

"The dog instantly lost consciousness and went into convulsions," said Toronto police Staff Sgt. Mary Shaw.

"labradoodle"? totally had it coming

 

[laura]

an enforcement idea?

Dog electrocuted in Toronto park"labradoodle"? totally had it coming

I hate those ****ing dogs.

 

[laura]

How would YOU propose to fix the stigma which is the root of this breed discrimination?

I am not concerned with fixing the stigma. The legislation is based on discrimination and stereotyping and I propose we change the legislation.


However, to help fix the stigma there are several things that could happen, but should certainly not be breed specific.


Living in a urban environment I think there should be more strict laws on owning dogs, any dogs. I think that obedience trainings and behavioral trainings/assessments should be done. I think that if you exhibit the ability to do so you should certainly be able to own a working dog for protection, but joe shmoe who thinks he wants a big dog because his house keeps getting broken into should have to go through some major handling training first.

It's obvious that the problem is with the owners in almost every case, and it is time to start putting the responsibility on the owners. Any dog of reasonable size can kill and the responsibility of owning one should not be taken so lightly.

 

[ohio]

but joe shmoe who thinks he wants a big dog because his house keeps getting broken into should have to go through some major handling training first.

Are you proposing legislation for ALL large dogs in urban areas? Isn't that discrimination? Isn't that BSL?

 

[MMike]

While in general, I do very much like dogs, dogs are not people. It's ok to be racist/discriminatory against dogs.

It bugs me when people treat their dogs/cats like children (especially when they refer to themselves as "mommy" or "daddy". That's just pathetic)

I'm all for getting rid of anything that can and would willingly hurt my kids....and to a lesser extent, other peoples' kids. And if erring on the side of caution means that a few "good" dogs pay the price, well so be it. Like I said, dogs are not people.

 

[laura]

Are you proposing legislation for ALL large dogs in urban areas? Isn't that discrimination? Isn't that BSL?

Nope, all dogs even the little "cute" ones. I specified that in my post when I said "owning dogs, any dogs".

And it would not be a legislation for all dogs, it would be for dog owners.

BSL says that you can not own certain dogs, you can not breed certain dogs, you can not adopt out certain dogs. It says that you have to muzzle your dog in public because of the breed. It doesn't say ONE thing about being a responsible owner and knowing how to handle your dog, making sure your dog is the right kind of dog to live among large crowds of people dogs, etc. But I think you know all that.

 

[narlus]

Like I said, dogs are not people.

it's soylent green that's people.

 

[syadasti]

I'm all for getting rid of anything that can and would willingly hurt my kids....and to a lesser extent, other peoples' kids. And if erring on the side of caution means that a few "good" dogs pay the price, well so be it. Like I said, dogs are not people.

Slugman has found a rug maker for you

This is so wrong... so why can't I stop laughing????