[Del]

This weekend I found a little section of woods perfect for putting together a little session spot. Due to it being close to my house I'll probably be out there by myself for most of the building and digging.

Now, I might be neurotic, but I would imagine a walker stumbling upon a grown man in the woods by himself with a shovel or ax might look kind of suspicious.



For the solo builders out there - are you concerned with how you might appear to someone stumbling upon you at work?

 

[drt_jumper]

Well there is one way to not appear so sketch....Have someone come help you dig!!! I would be willing to help....plus it is easier to bury said nosey walker with two people. PM me if you want help...I am in manassas, we cant have too many dj/riding spots around here.
Adam

 

[?????]

Grow a beard.

 

[Westy]

Blend in. Wear a bear costume.

 

[eaterofdog]

This weekend I found a little section of woods perfect for putting together a little session spot. Due to it being close to my house I'll probably be out there by myself for most of the building and digging.

Now, I might be neurotic, but I would imagine a walker stumbling upon a grown man in the woods by himself with a shovel or ax might look kind of suspicious.



For the solo builders out there - are you concerned with how you might appear to someone stumbling upon you at work?

I dig naked, so they won't notice the shovel anyway.

 

[Castle]

haha, I've often wondered the same thing, I was scouting some spots near my house recently and was thinkin the same thing, how could I look less sketchy, only thing I thought of was take my bike but that wont always be a option lugging some shovels around...

sorry I'm no help.....

 

[NJMX835]

Wear a mask so they can't give a description of the guy building illegal trails to the rangers.

Hockey mask is best, it's easier to breath in when you're digging.

 

[demo 9]

music and make ur bike apparant at least then they know ur making bike jumps and not burying dead bodies

 

[syadasti]

Biohazard suit

 

[Kevin]

Bring your bike.
Duh

 

[Del]

Well there is one way to not appear so sketch....Have someone come help you dig!!! I would be willing to help....plus it is easier to bury said nosey walker with two people. PM me if you want help...I am in manassas, we cant have too many dj/riding spots around here.
Adam

I'll let you know once it develops into a sure thing. I want to go scope it out a little more and make sure it's worth it before I make it seem better than it is.

I dig naked, so they won't notice the shovel anyway.

What if they make fun of the size of my shovel?

Bring your bike. Duh

I've always got my bike with me, but it still feels strange to me. When I was out there yesterday I had my bike propped against a tree and I kept my helmet and Camelbak on while I was undressing a gully with my eyes.

I feel like if someone came across me in the woods I'd try to act like I wasn't doing anything - you know, the innocent guy in the woods holding a shovel behind his back and whistling. I think maybe I just need to be all like "WHAT THE HELL HAVEN'T YOU EVER SEEN A GROWN MAN PLAYING IN THE WOODS? GO FETCH ME THAT WOOD OVER THERE!"

 

[V-Dub GTI]

Wear a bright orange hunters vest, and bring a gun. Tell them your hunting. Or a game warden (If you dont want to have the gun).

 

[Del]

If you have permission to build why would anyone bother you?

In my professional life I adhere to a pretty solid mantra:

"Ask for forgiveness, not permission."

Can't it carry over to the biking world as well?

 

[SlapheadMofo]

If you have permission to build why would anyone bother you?

Second that.

 

[Del]

So you are asking how you can better get away with illegally building trails that may cause a backlash leading to more trail closures? Sorry, can't help you there.

I proofread my post and I'm pretty sure nothing in the subject line or the body of the post mentioned anything about the politics of trail building.

 

[bdamschen]

So you are asking how you can better get away with illegally building trails that may cause a backlash leading to more trail closures? Sorry, can't help you there.

What's the world comming to if a dude can't go build a trail behind his house?

Some of the best trails I have ever ridden on were constructed illegally and were either still illegal or started out that way. Some of the worst were freakin super highways of trails all buffed out and sterile so no one could get hurt and sue, but sanctioned by the local authorities.

It's impossible to know the political climate and attitude towards trails around this guy's house, but it seems they're cool with trail building there, just anti wierd guy in the woods.

To appear less creepy out there, I'd bring a friend to start with until the trail becomes obvious. Once that happens, then people will know what you're up to and hopefully be cool with it. Try not to wear a flannel or stare at young girls if you're out there by yourself

 

[jonnynails]

Dude, I'm right there with you. My wife and I bought a new house in September last year and I have a perfect spot behind my house. So far I've built 4 stunts and 20 gap jumps, including a slalom/4x course. I have been imagining what some of my neighbors have been thinking seeing me carry all this friggin wood back there and going back with my shovel. Eventually people started asking me what I was doing, so i just told them.

Granted I'm 38 and live in a neighborhood with new construction of houses with 3,500 + sq ft, so some people almost looked confused when i told them. I'm sure they are too good for that kind of thing. Others thought it was cool, either that or they were scared of me with my shovel over my shoulder?? I've gone as far as to camoflouge the wood stunts with spray paint. Now that the leaves are all down you can see back there and i don't want more people to see them. Yes, to all you legal trail nazi's/communists, these trails are illegal. Going to be bulldozed eventually anyway as a developer owns the land and will get to that phase in another 1-2 years. Might as well get some use out of them now.

Anyway, I say you just go back there and start digging. Anybody gives you sh!t, just give them the finger and tell them you are digging holes for your pot plants

 

[drt_jumper]

So you are asking how you can better get away with illegally building trails that may cause a backlash leading to more trail closures? Sorry, can't help you there.

Be careful you dont fall off of your High Horse, wouldnt want some trail Nazi to get hurt!

 

[talusslope]

just start a club so as to look all official and all. That or just get a hard hat, metal lunch box, and whistle at the ladies.

Also use old wood (IE fencing, cured logging wood), that new stuff sticks way out. or just go further into the woods, over a hill or something.

 

[SlapheadMofo]

Dude, I'm right there with you. My wife and I bought a new house in September last year and I have a perfect spot behind my house. So far I've built 4 stunts and 20 gap jumps, including a slalom/4x course. I have been imagining what some of my neighbors have been thinking seeing me carry all this friggin wood back there and going back with my shovel. Eventually people started asking me what I was doing, so i just told them.

Granted I'm 38 and live in a neighborhood with new construction of houses with 3,500 + sq ft, so some people almost looked confused when i told them. I'm sure they are too good for that kind of thing. Others thought it was cool, either that or they were scared of me with my shovel over my shoulder?? I've gone as far as to camoflouge the wood stunts with spray paint. Now that the leaves are all down you can see back there and i don't want more people to see them. Yes, to all you legal trail nazi's/communists, these trails are illegal. Going to be bulldozed eventually anyway as a developer owns the land and will get to that phase in another 1-2 years. Might as well get some use out of them now.

Anyway, I say you just go back there and start digging. Anybody gives you sh!t, just give them the finger and tell them you are digging holes for your pot plants

Gotta watch your ass. Some neighborhood kid decides your jumps look like a lot of fun and ends up screwing himself up, sounds like everyone will know exactly who's door to knock on. We've got a similar sort of thing going on but we talked to the landowners first. It's kind of a dick move to build on someone else's land without asking IMO (not that I never did it, but I try not to nowadays since I know better).
Luckily, people where I live are cool and we've got access to hundreds upon hundreds of acres of private and town property to build on just through talking to people and being open about what we want to do. The open space/rec commitees have requested that we meet with them regarding comprehensive plans for a future trail network; they'd like to promote the town as a biking destination and totally love the idea that we're willing to lay out and build trail for free. We're hoping to do something similar to the Kingdom Trails on a smaller scale. Also hoping to do some sort of a FR park on our landfill after it's capped (years away, but never too early to lay the groundwork).
signed - communist trail nazi

 

[jonnynails]

Gotta watch your ass. Some neighborhood kid decides your jumps look like a lot of fun and ends up screwing himself up, sounds like everyone will know exactly who's door to knock on. We've got a similar sort of thing going on but we talked to the landowners first. It's kind of a dick move to build on someone else's land without asking IMO (not that I never did it, but I try not to nowadays since I know better).

You have a really good point. I originally talked to the home builder because i thought they had already bought all the land. He said no problem, that i could build jumps back there. Once i started i found out from a job supervisor that the land is still owned by a developer. At this point I thought that I may need to tear down the wood stuff and leave the jumps. Luckily it is not right out my back door. You have to hike thru a small field, into the woods, down a steep hill, across a creek and up another hill into the section. As it is winter time you can see back there from a couple houses, but it is still a little hike. We don't have any young kids here yet (just people with toddlers), but i have been a little worried about a kid getting hurt out there lately.

Maybe I should take down the wooden stuff as some of it is pretty big!

 

[SlapheadMofo]

Yeah, we try to limit the built up wooden stuff - dirt and rock is so much better IMO anyway. Less hassle all around, specially a couple years down the road when it's falling apart (as it inevitably does).

This year, I'm going to spend a bunch of time on our little shuttle trail making all the gaps tables and making sure almost everything is rollable (while making sure not to affect the way it rides for the experienced guys at the same time). That way, if someone does find and ride it, which has happened, they're not going to get any nasty surprises. Plus, I like to ride with people of many different styles and skill levels, so buildign in a way that invites progression while keeping consequences reasonably low is key.
Even with permission, big dangerous stuff can be a pretty serious liability. At least try to make sure someone can't accidentally end up way over their head - use 'filters' etc. Take a look at some of the IMBA resources re: this stuff.
Doing things 'the right way' in lots of cases makes the difference between keeping and losing trails. People that think those who go through all the extra time and effort to try to make things legit are some sort of 'nazis' are clearly clueless. Building for bulldozers sucks ass; I'm not into wasting my time and effort that way.

 

[demo 9]

lock and chain off the stuff. simple cheap chain and a master lock

 

[ire]

Dude, I'm right there with you. My wife and I bought a new house in September last year and I have a perfect spot behind my house. So far I've built 4 stunts and 20 gap jumps, including a slalom/4x course. I have been imagining what some of my neighbors have been thinking seeing me carry all this friggin wood back there and going back with my shovel. Eventually people started asking me what I was doing, so i just told them.

Granted I'm 38 and live in a neighborhood with new construction of houses with 3,500 + sq ft, so some people almost looked confused when i told them. I'm sure they are too good for that kind of thing. Others thought it was cool, either that or they were scared of me with my shovel over my shoulder?? I've gone as far as to camoflouge the wood stunts with spray paint. Now that the leaves are all down you can see back there and i don't want more people to see them. Yes, to all you legal trail nazi's/communists, these trails are illegal. Going to be bulldozed eventually anyway as a developer owns the land and will get to that phase in another 1-2 years. Might as well get some use out of them now.

Anyway, I say you just go back there and start digging. Anybody gives you sh!t, just give them the finger and tell them you are digging holes for your pot plants

Damn, wish I lived close to you! or do I?

 

[jonnynails]

Damn, wish I lived close to you! or do I?

Sorry man, I'm on the East coast - NC. Wish you were my neighbor, I'd have more people to ride with. There are houses for sale here.....

 

[Bulldog]

You have a really good point.

Maybe I should take down the wooden stuff as some of it is pretty big!

Yeah, wouldn't it suck to be sued by some kid's parent because he got hurt on your illegal trails? Or would that be karma?

 

[SlapheadMofo]

Sorry man, I'm on the East coast - NC. Wish you were my neighbor, I'd have more people to ride with. There are houses for sale here.....

One of our homeys from MA moved down there a while back and has been working on getting some legal FR type trails built. Dunno if it's anywhere near you but...

http://www.bustedspoke.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?t=42188

 

[chuffer]

err back to the original question, there are two ways of looking at it:

1) look as sketchy (and scary) as possible and folks will leave you alone. until homeland security shows up.

2) Try to look like you- belong. I have built (illegally) in some super-conspicuous high-traffic areas. Looking like you are on the up-and-up will prolong the inevitable for a good bit. Just try and look like you belong there. Proper work clothes and an organized & clean work site go a long way. Not sneaking around, not looking over your shoulder constantly and not getting easily spooked will also help your appearance a lot.

As for the folks freaking out about illegal trails, in some areas there is no other way. You all do realize that a lot of the trails on THE North Shore are still or were at one time illegal, right?

 

[freeridefool]

My family owns 250 acres bordered on two sides by blm. The other side is owned by a logging company. I have a couple of pretty killer trails on my property that Im digging on a few days a week. Dirt bikers, hikers and guys fourwheelin regularly come by and ask what im doing. You just have to be respectfull and explain to them what it is and inform them the right way.

When really I just want to tell them to stay the hell off my property and put a shotgun in their face.

 

[jonnynails]

One of our homeys from MA moved down there a while back and has been working on getting some legal FR type trails built. Dunno if it's anywhere near you but...

http://www.bustedspoke.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?t=42188

Yeah, i don't know your friend but I did see the post of the trails in the south forum. That is about 20 minutes from my house.

 

[manhattanprjkt83]

this thread is funny...one time my brothers and i were digging some trail and people kept creeping by the one spot that was visible fromt he road, the cops ended up coming by and were super cool.

I guess ppl reported a body being burried...morons...

 

[Del]

Well, some of my fears have been lessened since I bought my new shovel:

What sketchy person up to no good would have such a costly beast?

 

[jonnynails]

WTF? That is nuts, a shovel for $3,000. Just buy a damm bobcat.

 

[DirtMcGirk]

Just go get yourself a city worker's or ranger's uniform.

Or do it naked. I think the digging thing would be the least of the concerns.

 

[Eren]

Yeah, wouldn't it suck to be sued by some kid's parent because he got hurt on your illegal trails? Or would that be karma?

wouldnt happen. you could only sue the landowner

 

[RAMNATION1]

THIS is quoting the O.G. POST...
You mean you don't already do that? I make sure I have this very same mentality no matter what I do... people tend to take advantage if you ask permission and flat out say no at times. There are very selective cases in which this is false, but the majority of the time, if you have already started it, and are low key, others may think it's beneficial to have the built area, and may even start to help. On the other hand I heard a saying once... have A sound arguement for building them. You never know when someone will try and buffer any and all because of the so called "dangers". I.E. people unknowingly falling into holes that were dug, or not seeing the rake and shovel in the path(my personal favorite)... as long as "someone else"-- a viable/trustworthy source-- knows where you are and they know what you're doing... the sketchiness will more than likely be avoided. Plus---just my note---if you stop having THAT sadistic laugh and grunting while you're digging, people are more apt to see how you're doing and might lend a hand... LMAO

 

[Dr Phil mmkay]

I was under the impression that the legality of the trails on the North Shore mountains weren't based on injuries and suits but rather landowners wanting to shut down trails in order to develop more houses and commercial buildings? I could be wrong as I usually tend to be.oster_oops:

Del: PM me, I'd be down to help you dig as I feel that I need to contribute to the trails (legal or otherwise) since I've started riding.

I think people (landowners) who are concerned about illegal use of their land have a sound argument. Who really wants to be sued because of someone else's negligence? With that said though, since I've started biking this past summer, the whole underground, quasi-illegal, freeride trail networks (esp. in Northern VA) is quite appealing to a noob like myself, who grew up around streetracing.

 

[[Tha]Shovla]

All the trails i work on are "unsanctioned" "illegal" stuff and i have often wondered about what i would do if the game warden showed up and i was digging on state park property. I got my answer and it worked.

I feigned ignorance and was polite and had a nice conversation with him. Explained that i wasnt building anything new simply maining existing jumps/constructs (all of them dirt). i was wise to ecological issues and dug off the trail away from existing trees and used buckets to move my dirt and assured him that by allowing me to maintain and improve the trail that he was less likely to have to come chopper someone out because of sketchy stuff. he thanked me for my work and walked off. true story. I then changed my underware and finished my berm.

But regardless if its new and "illegal" or current maintenance, an air of confidence and not appearing like your doing something wrong or feeling like your doing something wrong can go a long way. And as the other guy said if the cops show up and your building dirt jumps ... they are more likely to make conversation than arrest you. Just dont appear that your doing anything wrong when they show up. nervous and sketchy raises eyebrows, polite and conversational eases people away.

 

[BlackHornet]

I agree with Shovla about if an official stopped to talk to you, but anyone else just be polite and tell them what you are doing. If they dont believe you then the worse they are going to do is call the cops and then they will come out there and hey they can tear up the ground all they want and unless its an old graveyard then they wont find any bodies of any sort. Just go ahead and start building and see how far you can get. Make sure there arent any "No Tresspassing" signs or any purple spray paint on trees, atleast down here in texas the purple paint means no tresspassing, but ya just go ahead and start building and hopefully nobody puts any action forth till your done and have been riding on them.

 

[Arkayne]

Easy! Wear this... and risk getting shot because you look like sasquatch.