[Toshi]

Originally posted by $tinkle
ok, it's not something more pernicious than a grab for oil.

your timing could not be any worse:

let me guess, you'd rather have seen this on the cover of Time:

[...]

Tell Mr. Moore i said 'hi'

er, what's your point here? i don't see the relevance of your quote. and that's a cute image, give yourself a nice back pat for finding it. criticizing the government is not equivalent to villainizing soldiers last i checked. i think joe sixpack is as great as the next guy.

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

Originally posted by ohio
I'm still not so sure you understand this whole "anecdotal" thing...

I didn't use or point to ANY evidence, let alone anecdotal something-or-other... are you just really excited about some new vocabulary?

Hmmm lets see

Originally posted by ohio
Couple things:
1) 50 years ago, if you asked an 18-20 year-old if they or anyone they know had any negative experiences resulting from smoking, I'm sure they would have said no.

This would qualify since are referring to him making the observation 50 years ago... maiking the evidence second hand at best...

Originally posted by ohio
2) You're young, you're healthy, and you read the labels carefully... you are NOT a cross-section of the ephedra market.
[/B]

You are making many assumptions in this argument as well, aren't ya? Do you know all of the above to be fact? Or are you just guessing

Originally posted by ohio
3) If I actually cared about your sample, I would say "1 out of 30 is a sh!tload." That is really really bad. Granted, he has interactions with other drugs, but those drugs provide a health benefit and are classified as over-the-counter MEDICATION. Ephedra is right now a supplement. If someone can prove it's health BENEFIT, then it too will become available over-the-counter as medication.
[/B]

I am not even sure where you are going with this.... Orange juice has proven health benefits, does that make it a medication? I do not claim to know what triggers a substance to move from the category of supplement to Medication, but I doubt your argument is it.

Originally posted by ohio
4) Body builders are EXTREMELY careful about what they put into their bodies... student athletes are less so, and teenage and college girls will OD on anything if they think it will make them slimmer.
[/B]

Again have you ever studied the habits of body builders or have ANY evidence that they are careful with what they put in their bodies? If not your statement is nothing more than your casual observation.

When do I get an avatar??

 

[LordOpie]

Originally posted by Mtb_Rob_FL
When do I get an avatar??

Here, use this one...

You weren't born a Taurus, but perhaps you should've been?

 

[Jorvik]

Debate is not my strong suit.

I'll just say that I'm going to load up on ephedra products while I can, because I believe that the positives outweigh any possible negatives.

 

[ohio]

Originally posted by Mtb_Rob_FL
Hmmm lets see



This would qualify since are referring to him making the observation 50 years ago... maiking the evidence second hand at best...



You are making many assumptions in this argument as well, aren't ya? Do you know all of the above to be fact? Or are you just guessing




I am not even sure where you are going with this.... Orange juice has proven health benefits, does that make it a medication? I do not claim to know what triggers a substance to move from the category of supplement to Medication, but I doubt your argument is it.



Again have you ever studied the habits of body builders or have ANY evidence that they are careful with what they put in their bodies? If not your statement is nothing more than your casual observation.

When do I get an avatar??

Wow, you just don't get it. I wasn't arguing against the use of ephedra with ANY of my statements except the last one about narcissism. Everything else I types was explaining why the anecdotal evidence provided is no good in determining the safety of ephedra...

If I were using any of my above statements to make the claim that ephedra is unsafe, THEN my 4 points would be invalid. However, that was not my claim.

 

[ohio]

Originally posted by Jorvik
Debate is not my strong suit.

I'll just say that I'm going to load up on ephedra products while I can, because I believe that the positives outweigh any possible negatives.

Just so I know, what ARE the benefits of ephedra over other emerging non-banned supplements that also speed up the metabolism/lower body fat?

Another side-note: I have used ephedra for an 8 week period (can't remember the brand, but it was a "time-release"... not stacker or hydroxycut) in the past while training for a climbing trip. Every pound counts when it's hanging from your fingertips. So I'm not claiming to be "above" the stuff or anything like that. Now for the anecdotal evidence part - I noticed no benefit in my workouts or overall body fat that I didn't expect to result from the vigorous training regimen... no way of knowing how much, if anything, the ephedra did.

 

[Jorvik]

With no change at all to my diet or exercise patterns at all, I was able to get noticably more cut. My workouts, especially cardio, always felt like I had more energy when I was using ephedra.

The non-ephedra supplements which are supposed to do the same thing just plain don't work. All they did with the formula was cut ephedra out of it and put more caffeine into it. It made me MUCH more jittery than any ephedra containing deal and didn't help in my workouts whatsoever.