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Bush vs Lib's useage of Hurricane Katrina

Discussion in 'Politics & World News' started by N8 v2.0, Sep 6, 2005.

  1. N8 v2.0

    N8 v2.0 Not the sharpest tool in the shed

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    Not much traction with the abuse
    September 6, 2005

    George W. finally gets it -- in more ways than one. The tardy president was back on the Gulf Coast yesterday, bucking up the spirits of the damned and stiffening the resolve of the slackers.

    He's getting it as well from his critics, many of whom can't believe their great good luck, that a hurricane, of all things, finally gives them the opening they've been waiting for to heap calumny and scorn on him for something that might get a little traction. Cindy Sheehan is yesterday's news; she couldn't attract a camera crew this morning if she stripped down to her step-ins for a march on Prairie Chapel Ranch.

    The vultures of the venomous left are attacking on two fronts, first that the president didn't do what the incompetent mayor of New Orleans and the pouty governor of Louisiana should have done, and didn't, in the early hours after Katrina loosed the deluge on the city that care and good judgment forgot. Ray Nagin, the mayor, ordered a "mandatory" evacuation a day late, but kept the city's 2,000 school buses parked and locked in neat rows when there was still time to take the refugees to higher ground. The bright-yellow buses sit ruined now in four feet of dirty water. Then the governor, Kathleen Blanco, resisted early pleas to declare martial law, and her dithering opened the way for looters, rapists and killers to make New Orleans an unholy hell. Gov. Haley Barbour did not hesitate in neighboring Mississippi, and looters, rapists and killers have not turned the streets of Gulfport and Biloxi into killing fields.

    The drumbeat of partisan ingratitude continues even after the president flooded the city with National Guardsmen from a dozen states, paratroopers from Fort Bragg and Marines from the Atlantic and the Pacific. The flutter and chatter of the helicopters above the ghostly abandoned city, some of them from as far away as Singapore and averaging 240 missions a day, is eerily reminiscent of the last days of Saigon. Nevertheless, Sen. Mary Landrieu, who seems to think she's cute when she's mad, even threatened on national television to punch out the president -- a felony, by the way, even as a threat. Mayor Nagin, who you might think would be looking for a place to hide, and Gov. Blanco, nursing a bigtime snit, can't find the right word of thanks to a nation pouring out its heart and emptying its pockets. Maybe the senator should consider punching out the governor, only a misdemeanor.

    The race hustlers waited for three days to inflame a tense situation, but then set to work with their usual dedication. The Revs. Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, our self-appointed twin ambassadors of ill will, made the scene as soon as they could, taking up the coded cry that Katrina was the work of white folks, that a shortage of white looters and snipers made looting and sniping look like black crime, that calling the refugees "refugees" was an act of linguistic racism. A "civil rights activist" on Arianna Huffington's celebrity blog even floated the rumor that the starving folks abandoned in New Orleans had been forced to eat their dead -- after only four days. New Orleans has a reputation for its unusual cuisine, but this tale was so tall that nobody paid it much attention. Neither did anyone tell the tale-bearer to put a dirty sock in it.

    Condi Rice went to the scene to say what everyone can see for himself, that no one but the race hustlers imagine Americans of any hue attaching strings to the humanitarian aid pouring into the broken and bruised cities of the Gulf. Most of the suffering faces in the flickering television images are black, true enough, and most of the helping hands are white.

    Black and white churches of all denominations across a wide swath of the South stretching from Texas across Arkansas and Louisiana into Mississippi, Tennessee, Kentucky, Alabama and Georgia turned their Sunday schools into kitchens and dormitories. In Memphis, Junior Leaguers turned out for baby-sitting duty at the city's largest, most fashionable and nearly all white Baptist church, cradling tiny black infants in compassionate arms so their mothers could finally sleep. The owner of a honky-tonk showed up to ask whether the church would "accept money from a bar." A pastor took $1,400, some of it in quarters, dimes and nickels, with grateful thanks and a promise to see that it is spent wisely on the deserving -- most of whom are black.

    The first polls, no surprise, show the libels are not working. A Washington Post-ABC survey found that the president is not seen as the villain the nutcake left is trying to make him out to be. Americans, skeptical as ever, are believing their own eyes.
     
    #1 -   Sep 6, 2005

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  2. stinkyboy

    stinkyboy Plastic Santa

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    W. admitted to the N.O. mayor that the federal government could have done a better job!

    Spin that...
     
    #2 -   Sep 6, 2005
  3. DRB

    DRB unemployed bum

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    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9228086/

    Oh it will be. Guess who is leading the investigation....

    He can't get away from WMD can he.
     
    #3 -   Sep 6, 2005
  4. DRB

    DRB unemployed bum

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    Hopefully this is code, for you have screwed this thing up beyond belief. How could one human be more out of touch? You are so fired.
     
    #4 -   Sep 6, 2005
  5. ohio

    ohio The Fresno Kid

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    So during the event, we all agreed that finger pointing didn't get anything done, and we needed action not words. Now that it's (mostly) over, and we're launching an investigation, how can we justify a call for "no finger-pointing." Isn't that what an investigation is? How can you possibly know how and why something went wrong if you start out with the premise that no one's at fault. If no one is ever at fault, then nothing is preventable. As much as I despise Randian objectivism, someone needs to hand these folks a copy of Atlas Shrugged.

    We had the same claim during the 9/11 investigations, and the Iraqi WMD probes... hmmm, I'm starting to see a pattern.
    Who is it heading these inquiries? Why would they not want to assign blame? I feel like it's right on the tip of my tongue...
     
    #5 -   Sep 6, 2005
  6. MMike

    MMike A fowl peckerwood.

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    The "libs" good fortune with KAtrina balances out W's good fortune with 9/11. If W had been stuck as president without a war, how could he have survived trying to worry about internal US issues? 9/11 was the best thing that could have happened for him....
     
    #6 -   Sep 6, 2005
  7. sanjuro

    sanjuro Tube Smuggler

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    Very interesting Op-Ed. Where did you get it?

    Good point about not mobilizing the buses earlier and the non-declaration of martial law. I will point this out, Gulfport and Biloxi are not New Orleans. Those cities are much smaller and more spread-out. Looting would not have been a problem...
     
    #7 -   Sep 6, 2005
  8. sanjuro

    sanjuro Tube Smuggler

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    A small news update: There has been musings on CNN that Bush is planning a review panel, but not an independent one. Hmmm. Bush investigating Bush?
     
    #8 -   Sep 6, 2005
  9. ohio

    ohio The Fresno Kid

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    The mayor has no jurisdiction over the use of those busses. It's a mis-use of pretty, sensationalist photos. I'm soooooo shocked that the right would resort to that.
     
    #9 -   Sep 6, 2005
  10. sanjuro

    sanjuro Tube Smuggler

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    I would have agreed, but I read this Op-Ed http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/06/opinion/06tierney.html, which talks about Virginia's evacuation plans which does include the usage of buses.

    While Nagin might not have the authority to commandeer busses, it was not planned for either. On the other hand: 80,000 survivors, 60 person capacity bus equals 1,300 buses. I don't think that school yard had 30.

    I thought more about secondary evacuation plans, like the buses. Given the economic limitations of the city, the Superdome was the only location for those left. No one knew the Superdome would not hold up to a Cat IV hurricane, which left the survivors screwed.

    Was the city at fault for no backup evacuation plan? Yeah, but I don't where the money was suppose to come from...
     
  11. Changleen

    Changleen Paranoid Member

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    What a ****ing joke that is going to be. Another waste of time and money coming right up after these messages.
     
  12. dante

    dante Unabomber

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    how much you want to bet that it'll spend less than the blowjob inquiry? wish that repubs were as anxious to find out the truth behind the failures of: 9/11, WMD, New Orleans, etc as they were to find out about whether the pres was getting a bj in the oval office.

    :stosh:
     
  13. N8 v2.0

    N8 v2.0 Not the sharpest tool in the shed

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    Blame Amid the Tragedy
    Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin failed their constituents.

    BY BOB WILLIAMS
    Wednesday, September 7, 2005 12:01 a.m. EDT


    As the devastation of Hurricane Katrina continues to shock and sadden the nation, the question on many lips is, Who is to blame for the inadequate response?

    As a former state legislator who represented the legislative district most impacted by the eruption of Mount St. Helens in 1980, I can fully understand and empathize with the people and public officials over the loss of life and property.

    Many in the media are turning their eyes toward the federal government, rather than considering the culpability of city and state officials. I am fully aware of the challenges of having a quick and responsive emergency response to a major disaster. And there is definitely a time for accountability; but what isn't fair is to dump on the federal officials and avoid those most responsible--local and state officials who failed to do their job as the first responders. The plain fact is, lives were needlessly lost in New Orleans due to the failure of Louisiana's governor, Kathleen Blanco, and the city's mayor, Ray Nagin.

    The primary responsibility for dealing with emergencies does not belong to the federal government. It belongs to local and state officials who are charged by law with the management of the crucial first response to disasters. First response should be carried out by local and state emergency personnel under the supervision of the state governor and his emergency operations center.

    The actions and inactions of Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin are a national disgrace due to their failure to implement the previously established evacuation plans of the state and city. Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin cannot claim that they were surprised by the extent of the damage and the need to evacuate so many people. Detailed written plans were already in place to evacuate more than a million people. The plans projected that 300,000 people would need transportation in the event of a hurricane like Katrina. If the plans had been implemented, thousands of lives would likely have been saved.

    In addition to the plans, local, state and federal officials held a simulated hurricane drill 13 months ago, in which widespread flooding supposedly trapped 300,000 people inside New Orleans. The exercise simulated the evacuation of more than a million residents. The problems identified in the simulation apparently were not solved.

    A year ago, as Hurricane Ivan approached, New Orleans ordered an evacuation but did not use city or school buses to help people evacuate. As a result many of the poorest citizens were unable to evacuate. Fortunately, the hurricane changed course and did not hit New Orleans, but both Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin acknowledged the need for a better evacuation plan. Again, they did not take corrective actions. In 1998, during a threat by Hurricane George, 14,000 people were sent to the Superdome and theft and vandalism were rampant due to inadequate security. Again, these problems were not corrected.

    The New Orleans contingency plan is still, as of this writing, on the city's Web site, and states: "The safe evacuation of threatened populations is one of the principle [sic] reasons for developing a Comprehensive Emergency Management Plan." But the plan was apparently ignored.

    Mayor Nagin was responsible for giving the order for mandatory evacuation and supervising the actual evacuation: His Office of Emergency Preparedness (not the federal government) must coordinate with the state on elements of evacuation and assist in directing the transportation of evacuees to staging areas. Mayor Nagin had to be encouraged by the governor to contact the National Hurricane Center before he finally, belatedly, issued the order for mandatory evacuation. And sadly, it apparently took a personal call from the president to urge the governor to order the mandatory evacuation.

    The city's evacuation plan states: "The city of New Orleans will utilize all available resources to quickly and safely evacuate threatened areas." But even though the city has enough school and transit buses to evacuate 12,000 citizens per fleet run, the mayor did not use them. To compound the problem, the buses were not moved to high ground and were flooded. The plan also states that "special arrangements will be made to evacuate persons unable to transport themselves or who require specific lifesaving assistance. Additional personnel will be recruited to assist in evacuation procedures as needed." This was not done.

    The evacuation plan warned that "if an evacuation order is issued without the mechanisms needed to disseminate the information to the affected persons, then we face the possibility of having large numbers of people either stranded and left to the mercy of a storm, or left in an area impacted by toxic materials." That is precisely what happened because of the mayor's failure.

    Instead of evacuating the people, the mayor ordered the refugees to the Superdome and Convention Center without adequate security and no provisions for food, water and sanitary conditions. As a result people died, and there was even rape committed, in these facilities. Mayor Nagin failed in his responsibility to provide public safety and to manage the orderly evacuation of the citizens of New Orleans. Now he wants to blame Gov. Blanco and the Federal Emergency Management Agency. In an emergency the first requirement is for the city's emergency center to be linked to the state emergency operations center. This was not done.

    The federal government does not have the authority to intervene in a state emergency without the request of a governor. President Bush declared an emergency prior to Katrina hitting New Orleans, so the only action needed for federal assistance was for Gov. Blanco to request the specific type of assistance she needed. She failed to send a timely request for specific aid.

    In addition, unlike the governors of New York, Oklahoma and California in past disasters, Gov. Blanco failed to take charge of the situation and ensure that the state emergency operation facility was in constant contact with Mayor Nagin and FEMA. It is likely that thousands of people died because of the failure of Gov. Blanco to implement the state plan, which mentions the possible need to evacuate up to one million people. The plan clearly gives the governor the authority for declaring an emergency, sending in state resources to the disaster area and requesting necessary federal assistance.

    State legislators and governors nationwide need to update their contingency plans and the operation procedures for state emergency centers. Hurricane Katrina had been forecast for days, but that will not always be the case with a disaster (think of terrorist attacks). It must be made clear that the governor and locally elected officials are in charge of the "first response."

    I am not attempting to excuse some of the delays in FEMA's response. Congress and the president need to take corrective action there, also. However, if citizens expect FEMA to be a first responder to terrorist attacks or other local emergencies (earthquakes, forest fires, volcanoes), they will be disappointed. The federal government's role is to offer aid upon request.

    The Louisiana Legislature should conduct an immediate investigation into the failures of state and local officials to implement the written emergency plans. The tragedy is not over, and real leadership in the state and local government are essential in the months to come. More importantly, the hurricane season is still upon us, and local and state officials must stay focused on the jobs for which they were elected--and not on the deadly game of passing the emergency buck.
     
  14. Inclag

    Inclag Turbo Monkey

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    Hmmm, how a city is runned and designed is often based on federal policy and I'm pretty sure that the first response to the disaster was carried out by local officials and the state governor.

    Where are these detailed plans? I'm a bit surprised to never hear of this until over week after the disaster. And explain to me how you evecuate over 300,000 or 1 million people from a city in between 24-48. Maybe there's problem because it is impossible to. So let's say there are 300,000 people stuck in a flooded city. The local officials send out their police force (which nearly 1/3 abandons) and calls on their national guard (where's the rest of them??). Now what???

    In one of the poorest cities in the US with one of the highest crime rates, criminals took advantage of the situation and did what criminals do. Also, the author may have forgotten, but as Hurricane Katrina approached the local officials used city busses at checkpoints throughout the city to bring people to shelters.

    How so????

    Holy spin!!!! Does the author know when the mayor contacted the National Hurricane Center?? I'm sure it's pretty standard procedure to contact them when seeking advice on issuing an evacuation. Nice try giving the impression that he was urged to do so last second and that he in all intentions didn't want to order an evacuation.

    [/QUOTE]And sadly, it apparently took a personal call from the president to urge the governor to order the mandatory evacuation.[/QUOTE]

    Again, this is interesting news. First I have heard of this and I've been glued to the TV for over a week now. It must be that damn liberal media, oh schnit but I've even watched a little of that Fox News too. I think this author is confusing himself as well because just above he stated that the mayor ordered the mandatory evacuation. Now he is saying that the governor ordered it in the following sentence. Hmmm

    Hmm where are we going to move these busses to high ground in a city that is below sea level? DOH!!!!! Maybe it needs to be reminded that their were busses available to assist in transporting people to safe places in the city. And again, if this author has a suggestion to evacuate all these people lets hear it, because as far as I'm concerned you are never going to be able to evacuate a city/towns/portions of states with such little warning or time that the hurricane provided. Does the author remember that people who were able to even attempt to evacuate were fleeing their cars because traffic was so jammed up? If only the mayor ordered for those damn hover-crafts!!! What was he thinking!?!?!

    No, that is precisely what happens when a major city is over 80% flooded. And the evacuation was ordered, and if author took the time to investigate, I'm pretty sure that nearly every citizen of N.O. knew there was an evacuation. If I saw hords of people evacuating Boston I think I could easily find out what was going on. Again, the author is assuming there is some magical way to evacuate everyone from the city that is plausible.

    It's been reported numerous times daily that the Convention Center was not an evacuation site. It was where many people who did not have the means or thought they could ride out the storm gathered by rumor and following others there. And once again lets repeat the same thing with a different set of words about evacuating people. Everyone makes it sound so easy to evacuate people hundreds of miles with little notice in traffic at a standstill. As far as food, water, and sanitary conditions. Those don't exist when an entire city is flooded. Could there have beeen a stockpile of food and water? Yes, and maybe local officials dropped the ball on that, but then who was supposed to help them in that department??? Here's a hint, the federal government and it took 5 days for supplies to arrive and start having an effect.

    [/QUOTE]As a result people died, and there was even rape committed, in these facilities. Mayor Nagin failed in his responsibility to provide public safety and to manage the orderly evacuation of the citizens of New Orleans. Now he wants to blame Gov. Blanco and the Federal Emergency Management Agency. In an emergency the first requirement is for the city's emergency center to be linked to the state emergency operations center. This was not done.[/QUOTE]

    Actually the Police provide public safetey, and again reports are that 1/3 of them abandoned and they were sprawled throughout the city. How can you blame Nagin for a rape committed in the facilities?? Rape among other things are what criminals do. I'm sure the author must be really outraged that rape occurs in of all places in prisons where everyone in their is a guard/officer. As for communications, the whole system failed from every front.

    I guess no one in the federal government was watching the tens of thousands of people on CNN after the disaster. And their were request for federal aid as far as I know. The problem was the aid was a joke, hence the increased number of guardsmen and troops and the inability to make a real difference until 5 days after.
     
  15. Inclag

    Inclag Turbo Monkey

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    Wow, this reminds me of some of my 5th grade reports where I would just reword some of the same stuff over and over and basically BS it and pull an A out of my ass. This author clearly lives in an alternate reality to even remotely think some of the things he is suggesting are even possible to do. He has somehow convinced himself that you can evacuate a whole city in days notice, that communications, despite reports stating otherwise, were not an issue, and that after the flooding the problems were mostly because local government even though they were STRANDED and using all the possible resources that they had at the time similarly to being stuck on a desert island.

    This is absolute garbage/spin N8, used to divert people from looking at the real issues. Obviously there were failures at the local level. It would be ignorant to think otherwise, but the tone and way this author goes about writing this lends no credability to his argument.
     
  16. kinghami3

    kinghami3 Future Turbo Monkey

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    Holy crap, N8, what religious right wing publication did you get this shlock from?
    "bucking up the spirits of the damned"?
    Is that supposed to sound like George Bush our Savior in Heaven sitting at the right hand of God Almighty? Open up you mind to the real world; I really would like to see what Bush would have done in the same situation. And as for who to place the blame on for the National Guard, I'm pretty sure that Bush, not the Governor of Louisiana, is our Commander in Chief. He could have mobilized them any time that he saw fit. The mayor evacuated the city, the only problem was that the citizens had all 'done this before' and didn't want to do it again, so they stayed. There's really no one to blame for what happened, but don't go around defending our president like he's some innocent bystander of holy deity, especially when real people with real issues are really dying.
     
  17. N8 v2.0

    N8 v2.0 Not the sharpest tool in the shed

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    I believe the number of buses abandoned in the hurricane number over a thousand actually.
     
  18. Slugman

    Slugman Frankenbike

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    OK… kinda jumping on this one a bit after the fact, but my wife was talking about this last night. Of Course the rightwing is going to say it’s the local officials fault… They are democrats. But the local government had to initiate the request that Bush signed. In order for an “Emergency Disaster Declaration” to be issued the Governor must make a request:

    Source: http://www.fema.gov/rrr/dec_guid.shtm

    Source: http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/09/20050907-2.html
    This was BEFORE Katrina hit… so why wasn’t anyone prepared?

    So we have the local government’s request for a declaration of disaster BEFORE the event. We have the President signing it, BEFORE the event. And yet no FEDERAL action was taken until AFTER the event…

    The locals knew they were in over their head and asked for help… it did not arrive until 5 days after the declaration was signed. That is a F’ up at the FEDERAL level.
     
  19. N8 v2.0

    N8 v2.0 Not the sharpest tool in the shed

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    Uhhh....
    http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130153
     
  20. Changleen

    Changleen Paranoid Member

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