[Westy]

If you can't see teh ecosystem reestablishng itself than you have missed the simple fact....forest rebuild and nature works around it.

Please let me know where in WA you did your indepth study.

No in depth study, like I said the difference between a very old stand of forest and a kinda old one was fairly obvious. Much more so than on the East coast because there is hardly any old growth left to compare. Anyway the past few years I have spent 1-2 weeks backpacking in the North Cascades.

 

[Silver]

That wouldn't be blamable on fire fighting now would it?

The whole damn thing was a flare? By a fire fighter or hiker/camper/etc?

The fuel was there....it was lit (it happens)....conditions were right for mayhem.

What control do anyone of us have over these things? Weather? no. Dorks with flares or no paycheck? not really. Fuel to feed the fires? Yes.

Nope, not blamable on fire fighting, but that might be where some of the confusion is.

The asshole with the flare? Read here:

http://www.ranchodoblado.com/cedar_fire.htm

Six miles out of town. Unless San Diego county had been paved over completely, that flare would have lit something up.

 

[RhinofromWA]

No in depth study, like I said the difference between a very old stand of forest and a kinda old one was fairly obvious. Much more so than on the East coast because there is hardly any old growth left to compare. Anyway the past few years I have spent 1-2 weeks backpacking in the North Cascades.

I think old growth and habitat are not one and the same....you can have a habitat where the forest lives fine and not be in an old growth forest.

I am not saying cut down teh old growth...far from it. But to manage the forests in a way that benefits everyone.

The cascadesare a beautiful place but much has been harvested before..... and much of the private lands are the ones clear cut not the national forests.

I think controling the brush problem is a concern....and removing any access to the forest is the problem.

Hind sight being 20/20 and all that. the question isn't what should have been ideal 50 yrs ago but what do we do know that the forests are burdened with dense underbrush and are set to ignite?

 

[RhinofromWA]

Ah I never knew Rhino - so you've done biodiversity, population, and top soil studies - the works. How you "think" the forests health are doesn't mean anything in terms of their actual health - ever wonder why there are these dead or diseased trees around among the various other problems forests face today? Leave the theories up to the experts.

By all means smart guy....feed me your theories.

Your simple minded obervations are the same logic hikers use when they say mountain bikes do more trail damage simply cause they see tire imprints on the trail when they haven't looked at any scientific studies or fail to consider their trail is a high-traffic area for all trail users.

the same hikers that kicked everyone out of the forests with the roadless initiative? Hmmm I know they didn't fight it in the meetings I went to.

To think that the course of nature is out of control is FAR more beer goggled than to think man can easily do better (man tends not to go for better, but the cheapest or most profitable short-term gains). Nature has been on its own course for billions of years doing just fine.

Hmmmm forget a bizzilions years ago....with the state of verything now. What do we do? Have an answer? I know you have an opinion.... Leave teh forest so burn again and let to go until it stops or burn it (controlled on our terms as much as we can) before nature decides it is time? Your choice.

We've thought we could do better with rivers and dams, but from past experience know its not very easy. As a matter of fact, even experts from the USBR (US Dam experts) were even trying to stop China from putting in the Three Gorges Dam cause they knew it would be a huge mistake...

I can see you are making a point about human interaction with nature...but as far as forest and the wilderness initative it falls flat.

It is like a big box of firecrackers (forest) being moved (by the DNR/FS?etc) around away from the kids throwing lit matches (natures fire starter...lightning etc) You stand a better chance moving that box around as the matches fall. If one finds the box you are there to try and put it out. Now take the DNR and make them watch from a distance as the lightning strikes...all it takes is time (not much as it would seem) to have a hot strike and set the box of firecrackers off....

Now try and put the firecrackers our now that they have gone off.

Now that there is a tinderbox in teh forest what is the best way to adress it? Leave it alone? Until it ignites? I guess that is one option.....

 

[RhinofromWA]

Nope, not blamable on fire fighting, but that might be where some of the confusion is.

The asshole with the flare? Read here:

http://www.ranchodoblado.com/cedar_fire.htm

Six miles out of town. Unless San Diego county had been paved over completely, that flare would have lit something up.

That is nasty..... stooooopid hunter. Some sweet pictures though

CA had so much of itself ablaze at one time it could face it on all fronts. it was a terrible situation. I know may volunteers from across the country joined in the fight. Confusion was probably at teh massive size and the lackof resources to fight it.

 

[narlus]

no comments about the HSS/WHO story? more creeping fascism from the present administration.

 

[Ciaran]

Logging of the forrests is a good thing when done right....protect the old growth but to the large sects that have been logged in teh past....log it again. Manage it. Forest fires are only going to get worst the more you close off and ignore the wilderness.
Rhino

The forests (Not to mention the planet) did fine for millions of years without us... I think it can handle itself again. Forest fires are also found in nature without humans starting them.


Ciaran

 

[Tenchiro]

Why do trees hate America?