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"Bush's War;" tonite on Frontline

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
30,101
2,926
Portland, OR
So I watched part one and thought it was interesting. Really nothing I haven't heard before from a variety of sources.

So n8, what do you feel watching something like this? Seeing GWB and Uncle Dick rush to war on manufactured documents despite the recommendation of Powell (the only guy who made sense). Seeing Dick turn the CIA into a PR firm for the cause rather than an agency of intelligence.

Do you still come away with the feeling of support and admiration for this administration? Does it make you feel all warm and fuzzy knowing you helped and supported this group?

I get pissed. I have a tough time watching things like this because it makes me question what I fought for, why I spent 11 years in the military working toward what I thought was a common good.
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,007
149
The Cleft of Venus
So I watched part one and thought it was interesting. Really nothing I haven't heard before from a variety of sources.

So n8, what do you feel watching something like this? Seeing GWB and Uncle Dick rush to war on manufactured documents despite the recommendation of Powell (the only guy who made sense). Seeing Dick turn the CIA into a PR firm for the cause rather than an agency of intelligence.

Do you still come away with the feeling of support and admiration for this administration? Does it make you feel all warm and fuzzy knowing you helped and supported this group?

I get pissed. I have a tough time watching things like this because it makes me question what I fought for, why I spent 11 years in the military working toward what I thought was a common good.

i think history will show that eliminating Saddam and establishing a large US presence in the middle east to be a good thing.

also pretty sure any US president would have done the same given the same circumstances.
 

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
30,101
2,926
Portland, OR
i think history will show that eliminating Saddam and establishing a large US presence in the middle east to be a good thing.

also pretty sure any US president would have done the same given the same circumstances.
So even though he was a dick, but wasn't a threat, it was ok? Even though we basically lost everything we worked for in Afghanistan to rush into Iraq under false pretenses, it was still worth it?

Wow.
 

Secret Squirrel

There is no Justice!
Dec 21, 2004
8,153
0
Up sh*t creek, without a paddle
i think history will show that eliminating Saddam and establishing a large US presence in the middle east to be a good thing.

also pretty sure any US president would have done the same given the same circumstances.
Any US president would've outright lied and not admitted wrongdoing in the face of facts.
Any US president would've completely & utterly disregarded common sense and forged ahead with something so harebrained that even an ostrich would question.
Any administration would've just taken a massive dump on the American people because it served them better.

Yeah.


"Imagine all the people..."
 

DaveW

Space Monkey
Jul 2, 2001
8,724
637
Karori, Poneke Te Ika-a-Maui

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
30,101
2,926
Portland, OR
As for last nights show, I think history will show this administration and its war in Iraq was more than just a bad idea. I fail to see how time will change that perspective.
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,007
149
The Cleft of Venus
Well if you ignore yesterdays efforts
US cargo ship shoots hawkers

I'd have said the difference is you don't go round shooting and bombing innocent people at random. :twitch:
Selective amnesia?

1. It was after sunset on Monday when a motorboat carrying three local Egyptian traders approached the Global Patriot in the Gulf of Suez as it prepared to sail towards the Mediterranean, according to Egyptian officials.

2. the boats were "warned by a native Arabic speaker using a bullhorn to warn them to turn away. A warning flare was then fired."

3. "One small boat continued to approach the ship and received two sets of warning shots 20-30 metres in front of the bow. All shots were accounted for as they entered the water." "These were tracer bullets, they can actually see the warning shots go out and 20 metres in front of the [Egyptian] ship is quite a way,"
 

antm

Chimp
Jul 15, 2004
85
0
miami, fl
i am boycotting the Olympics there this summer ok? sheesh...
Why is it that everytime you get cornered and cant talk yourself out of something so obviously wrong you tend to make a joke. I for one cant believe you still support this administration. I used to be a Republican (key word: used). However, now I am ashamed at what this party has done. It is sad and embarrassing. It's amazing how some people refuse to think for themselves and instead just follow the leader by the pure basis of what party he belongs to. I am sure you have read all the facts, yet you continually cut and paste points which, in your eyes, defends the POTUS. It really is sad.
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,007
149
The Cleft of Venus
Why is it that everytime you get cornered and cant talk yourself out of something so obviously wrong you tend to make a joke. I for one cant believe you still support this administration. I used to be a Republican (key word: used). However, now I am ashamed at what this party has done. It is sad and embarrassing. It's amazing how some people refuse to think for themselves and instead just follow the leader by the pure basis of what party he belongs to. I am sure you have read all the facts, yet you continually cut and paste points which, in your eyes, defends the POTUS. It really is sad.
So.. you are a Ron Paul voter then..?
 

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
30,101
2,926
Portland, OR
Why is it that everytime you get cornered and cant talk yourself out of something so obviously wrong you tend to make a joke. I for one cant believe you still support this administration. I used to be a Republican (key word: used). However, now I am ashamed at what this party has done. It is sad and embarrassing. It's amazing how some people refuse to think for themselves and instead just follow the leader by the pure basis of what party he belongs to. I am sure you have read all the facts, yet you continually cut and paste points which, in your eyes, defends the POTUS. It really is sad.
:clapping:

My wife voted for Bush in 2000 and learned a lot that first term. She can't even watch stuff like this show because she gets so angry over military issues. She has a hard time even admitting that she voted for him the first time.

<edit> n8 is a "stay the course" guy, regardless of the cliff it leads to.
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
10,264
291
chez moi
Missed part I...might try and catch it online prior to part II coming on... Anyone know if it's re-running anytime soon?
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
10,264
291
chez moi
Yeah, that's why I wanted to know if it was re-running...rather watch it on TV, but'll do it online if I have to.
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
10,264
291
chez moi
Hmmm, part I doesn't delve too deeply into exactly why there was a push towards Iraq from the beginning. That's the part that interests me...we know that there was...I want to hear what the rationales were. If it's a simple matter of being a state sponsor of terrorism, there are far more obvious and lucrative targets.

Edit: Series as a whole is more descriptive than analytical; very reminiscent of a televisation of Ricks' Fiasco.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
5
Hmmm, part I doesn't delve too deeply into exactly why there was a push towards Iraq from the beginning.
before "the beginning", we should look back only a few years before:


(1) On September 22, 1980, Iraq invaded Iran, starting an 8 year war in which Iraq employed chemical weapons against Iranian troops and ballistic missiles against Iranian cities.

(2) In February 1988, Iraq forcibly relocated Kurdish civilians from their home villages in the Anfal campaign, killing an estimated 50,000 to 180,000 Kurds.

(3) On March 16, 1988, Iraq used chemical weapons against Iraqi Kurdish civilian opponents in the town of Halabja, killing an estimated 5,000 Kurds and causing numerous birth defects that affect the town today.

(4) On August 2, 1990, Iraq invaded and began a 7 month occupation of Kuwait, killing and committing numerous abuses against Kuwaiti civilians, and setting Kuwait's oil wells ablaze upon retreat.

(5) Hostilities in Operation Desert Storm ended on February 28, 1991, and Iraq subsequently accepted the ceasefire conditions specified in United Nations Security Council Resolution 687 (April 3, 1991) requiring Iraq, among other things, to disclose fully and permit the dismantlement of its weapons of mass destruction programs and submit to long-term monitoring and verification of such dismantlement.

(6) In April 1993, Iraq orchestrated a failed plot to assassinate former President George Bush during his April 14-16, 1993, visit to Kuwait.

(7) In October 1994, Iraq moved 80,000 troops to areas near the border with Kuwait, posing an imminent threat of a renewed invasion of or attack against Kuwait.

(8) On August 31, 1996, Iraq suppressed many of its opponents by helping one Kurdish faction capture Irbil, the seat of the Kurdish regional government.

(9) Since March 1996, Iraq has systematically sought to deny weapons inspectors from the United Nations Special Commission on Iraq (UNSCOM) access to key facilities and documents, has on several occasions endangered the safe operation of UNSCOM helicopters transporting UNSCOM personnel in Iraq, and has persisted in a pattern of deception and concealment regarding the history of its weapons of mass destruction programs.

(10) On August 5, 1998, Iraq ceased all cooperation with UNSCOM, and subsequently threatened to end long-term monitoring activities by the International Atomic Energy Agency and UNSCOM.

(11) On August 14, 1998, President Clinton signed Public Law 105-235, which declared that `the Government of Iraq is in material and unacceptable breach of its international obligations' and urged the President `to take appropriate action, in accordance with the Constitution and relevant laws of the United States, to bring Iraq into compliance with its international obligations.'.

(12) On May 1, 1998, President Clinton signed Public Law 105-174, which made $5,000,000 available for assistance to the Iraqi democratic opposition for such activities as organization, training, communication and dissemination of information, developing and implementing agreements among opposition groups, compiling information to support the indictment of Iraqi officials for war crimes, and for related purposes.
 

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
30,101
2,926
Portland, OR
and here I though Iraq was "just riding along..."

:shocked:
Also:
Cheney's Halliburton stock options rose 3,281%



Sen. Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ) asserts that Cheney's options -- worth $241,498 in '03 -- are now valued at more than $8 million.

<edit>Cheney continues to received a deferred salary from the company. According to financial disclosure forms, he was paid $205,298 in 2001; $262,392 in 2002; $278,437 in 2003; and $294,852 in 2004.