[rokcore]

Huh. I always thought exploded diagrams were for identifying parts and that service manuals were for service.



Your analogy is seriously flawed: You didn't buy the same product from a less expensive outlet, you bought a different product. From a company known for cutting corners to sell bikes cheaper than the competition. Then you messed it up by ham-fisting it in a misguided effort to make it look pretty, and are looking for someone else to blame.

You can go back and read from the engineers who make these diagrams for a living.

The argument still stands. If it is a different product for the same price as a better product then they need to adapt and make better products or risk losing customers. This is the whole point. They have a bad product sold for the same price as better products. If you don't share bad experiences then they have zero reason to change and you become part of the problem. At one point or another all of your favorite brands were probably boutique or "knock offs". They didn't get better without negative feedback

 

[maxyedor]

Look, I'll concede that the paint is crap, and the exploded diagram is wrong. Fine. So what? You still fucked it up. Not YT. You did. Guy with the correct and perfectly fine Park tool in his hand fucked it up.

How DARE you suggest that half of us have a serious drinking problem.

WE ALL DO.

But did he even fuck up the frame? He fucked up a tool, and then started worrying about the structural integrity of the frame, which, is A) Likely fine and 2)Only an issue because he's actively voiding the warranty D) Completely his fault if it is damaged and not a warranty issue.



Speak for yourself, my drinking problem isn't serious, it's actually quite hilarious.

 

[Jm_]

Yeah, looks valid. My specialized enduro had a setup like that with no "lip" in between the bearings, the frame material was in between, but it was the same height as the bearing inner diameter, so there was no way in hell to pull the bearings out. A blind puller wouldn't do it. It was simply a disposable seatstay. Fuck specialized.

 

[jonKranked]

At one point or another all of your favorite brands were probably boutique or "knock offs". They didn't get better without negative feedback

 

[Jm_]

Because here's the thing, if they make a mail order frame and they don't make this information readily available, then fuck them. Like it has to be some kind of secret about how the bearings are put together?

I would keep pressing them about then if not here, where do they make that information readily available. Oh, it's the super secret squirrel handshake!

 

[rokcore]

View attachment 156740

Very easy to find information on multiple industries about this

For example Trek's original goal "No one was building really good bikes in the United States. Bevil thought that instead of being a retailer, they should manufacture high-end bikes built in the United States. Schwinn sold a lot of low-end bikes and kids’ bikes and there were some high-end European brands, but nothing from the middle price points all the way to the top that was made in America. It was a unique idea, something completely different.

- John Burke
President, Trek Bicycle
""

Having new ideas is no excuse to not continually improve

 

[rideit]

Dude, you are farting in the wind.
A mighty wind...

 

[Adventurous]

Yeah, looks valid. My specialized enduro had a setup like that with no "lip" in between the bearings, the frame material was in between, but it was the same height as the bearing inner diameter, so there was no way in hell to pull the bearings out. A blind puller wouldn't do it. It was simply a disposable seatstay. Fuck specialized.

Its a Specialized. They probably figured you'd be more liable to break the stay before the bearings required replacement anyway.

 

[Jozz]

Dude, you are farting in the wind.
A mighty wind...

 

[OGRipper]

They have a bad product sold for the same price as better products.

No, they have a fairly solid product they sell for less than the competition. They can do that partly because they cut corners every chance they get. And if you are as smart as you say you are, you knew that going in. Yet, you seem to expect quality, warranty and customer service equivalent to a premium brand.

You're whining about your own decisions and trying to tell us that you're here to provide a public service. Thanks but we're good.

 

[Jm_]

Its a Specialized. They probably figured you'd be more liable to break the stay before the bearings required replacement anyway.

And they were right, the brake line sawed through the stay an they sent me a new one.

 

[rokcore]

No, they have a fairly solid product they sell for less than the competition. They can do that partly because they cut corners every chance they get. And if you are as smart as you say you are, you knew that going in. Yet, you seem to expect quality, warranty and customer service equivalent to a premium brand.

You're whining about your own decisions and trying to tell us that you're here to provide a public service. Thanks but we're good.

So we've swung back around to solid product from cheap knock off. Got it

 

[jstuhlman]

the brake line sawed through the stay

 

[Full Trucker]

Your steadfast adherence to this narrative is downright impressive. Seriously.

If you don't care about the quality of what you buy then this thread is not for you

Of course I don't care about the quality of what I buy... that's why I ride a Yeti. Duh.

 

[canadmos]

TRY IT NOW?

 

[Jozz]

TRY IT NOW?

aboot time!

 

[rokcore]

Your steadfast adherence to this narrative is downright impressive. Seriously.

Of course I don't care about the quality of what I buy... that's why I ride a Yeti. Duh.

Then you should know the value of quality drawings and quality instructions

 

[Colonel Angus]

This thread is why I keep coming back to da Monkey

 

[jonKranked]

No, they have a fairly solid product they sell for less than the competition. They can do that partly because they cut corners every chance they get. And if you are as smart as you say you are, you knew that going in. Yet, you seem to expect quality, warranty and customer service equivalent to a premium brand.

You're whining about your own decisions and trying to tell us that you're here to provide a public service. Thanks but we're good.

most of their cost savings is done by cutting out the traditional dealer network and using a consumer direct sales model.

 

[rokcore]

But did he even fuck up the frame? He fucked up a tool, and then started worrying about the structural integrity of the frame, which, is A) Likely fine and 2)Only an issue because he's actively voiding the warranty D) Completely his fault if it is damaged and not a warranty issue.



Speak for yourself, my drinking problem isn't serious, it's actually quite hilarious.

Tearing the bike apart is not voiding the warranty, this could have happened regardless of the intention. Stripping the paint away DOES void the warranty which I knew and do not have an issue accepting responsibility. If you'll notice, I never made it to that point because the diagrams were wrong. There is no worming your way around that. You can argue all you want about experience, etc but at the end of the day the diagram is straight up wrong. I believe someone else asked this but I would happily take a seat stay replacement so I could sell the bike without a guilty conscience that it was possibly damaged even after telling the buyer what happened. This was not offered as an option, no attempts to fix the issue, just insults from the manufacturer and no suggestion for a real solution

 

[OGRipper]

So we've swung back around to solid product from cheap knock off. Got it

Fairly solid product for the price, which is cheap. There's no inconsistency there. Again, you're holding YT to a standard you were not willing to pay for.

But I agree with Full Trucker, your commitment here (however misguided) is impressive. Never thought I'd find myself defending YT!

 

[jonKranked]

Very easy to find information on multiple industries about this

For example Trek's original goal "No one was building really good bikes in the United States. Bevil thought that instead of being a retailer, they should manufacture high-end bikes built in the United States. Schwinn sold a lot of low-end bikes and kids’ bikes and there were some high-end European brands, but nothing from the middle price points all the way to the top that was made in America. It was a unique idea, something completely different.

- John Burke
President, Trek Bicycle
""

Having new ideas is no excuse to not continually improve

so you're going to make a direct comparison of modern bikes to what was being manufactured half a century ago?

 

[6thElement]

most of their cost savings is done by cutting out the traditional dealer network and using a consumer direct sales model.

And their paint and exploded diagrams, keep up.

 

[rokcore]

most of their cost savings is done by cutting out the traditional dealer network and using a consumer direct sales model.

Hit the nail on the head. They don't make suspension, wheels, posts, bars, or anything like that. They are responsible for assembly, the frame, distribution and support. That's it

 

[rideit]

How do you feel about global warming?

 

[jonKranked]

And their paint and exploded diagrams, keep up.

exploding MS paint diagrams

 

[jonKranked]

Hit the nail on the head. They don't make suspension, wheels, posts, bars, or anything like that. They are responsible for assembly, the frame, distribution and support. That's it

they are also responsible for the quality of the frames they accept from the contract manufacturers they use to.

they're not responsible when someone works on their own frame and damages it in the process, regardless of the quality (or lack their of) of published support documentation.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

How do you feel about global warming?

Fake news!

 

[Full Trucker]

Fake news!

Ooh, this is a great point... @rokcore have you considered that the exploded views you referenced were just quite simply "alternative diagrams" which (as any reasonable person would obviously assume) have no basis in reality?

This was not offered as an option, no attempts to fix the issue, just insults from the manufacturer and no suggestion for a real solution

IME you get what you give, holmes.

I believe someone else asked this but I would happily take a seat stay replacement so I could sell the bike without a guilty conscience that it was possibly damaged even after telling the buyer what happened.

Good on ya for at least acknowledging you'll have a guilty conscience when you inevitably sell this obvious POS of a bike. Oh, and saying you'll at least tell them what happened, I suppose. Question for you on that note: will you consider just sending them a link to this thread as adequate communication of the frame's condition? Because that would be aces.

 

[Adventurous]

I'll give you tree-fiddy for it.

 

[Fool]

Now, when I see a thread like this get started, I like to leave it alone. Just the title is enough. You know you have to let it sit. Marinate for a while. Like at least 12 hours, like a tough piece of meat. The really good 'uns will grow to be 5-6 pages in that time. Then, you dive in, several pages deep, skip the early stuff. You don't need it. It's all the tough, sinewy chunks of OP complaints and ranting, and the fibrous, gristly attempts to help and reason. Page 3 is where the marrow starts. Just crack it open and slurp up all the salty, umami goodness. Mmmmm. Mm, mm, mm.

 

[Full Trucker]

Great, now I'm hungry for brisket.

 

[iRider]

They are responsible for assembly, the frame, distribution and support. That's it

But if you would have done your research on all the messageboards where you post now your complaints before buying the bike you would have known all the issues with paint quality and CS of YT.
From the mail order brands, Canyon, YT and to a certain extend Radon have issues with CS, Propain is considered fairly good.

 

[jonKranked]

Now, when I see a thread like this get started, I like to leave it alone. Just the title is enough. You know you have to let it sit. Marinate for a while. Like at least 12 hours, like a tough piece of meat. The really good 'uns will grow to be 5-6 pages in that time. Then, you dive in, several pages deep, skip the early stuff. You don't need it. It's all the tough, sinewy chunks of OP complaints and ranting, and the fibrous, gristly attempts to help and reason. Page 3 is where the marrow starts. Just crack it open and slurp up all the salty, umami goodness. Mmmmm. Mm, mm, mm.

i'm just glad bike forums weren't really a thing when i started wrenching on my bikes back in the 90's.

 

[rideit]

Great, now I'm hungry for brisket.

Texas style, or Jewish style?
They are both amazing.
Hmmn, maybe I’ll make a kosher one next weekend...

 

[Fool]

i'm just glad bike forums weren't really a thing when i started wrenching on my bikes back in the 90's.

Yeah, I just had to drag my mistakes down to my local shop, head hung in shame, and ask for help.

edit: still do, every now and again.

 

[jstuhlman]

dammit, @Fool you shot your wad early. we're still on page 3!

 

[Full Trucker]

i'm just glad bike forums weren't really a thing when i started wrenching on my bikes back in the 90's.

I dunno man... I honestly have found searching the various mountain bike forums for advice on how to service things, what products might suit my needs, and which companies have good (or bad) customer service to be really valuable. Especially before I break something or buy something that won't work for what I need. YMMV.

 

[Adventurous]

i'm just glad bike forums weren't really a thing when i started wrenching on my bikes back in the 90's.

I designed a t-shirt for you to commemorate the occasion.

 

[jonKranked]

pass.